[Grange] Should the Raptors get involved re: Trae Young?

[YogurtProducer]

Because Trae is hurting their chances at winning, and he does not seem like the type of player to be happy to be parked on the bench. They probably are that desperate to get him away from the team.

If they are not getting anything in return, they might as well tell him to go home and just wait it out.I could be wrong, but I do not see a world where ATL is giving up draft picks to get rid of Trae and get back garbage. If they do, that is downright stupid when they can just wait until the summer and let Trae opt out, or if he opts in he is just a high value expiring.

ESPECIALLY considering they already have sent out their 2026 and 2027's.

Trae is not going to opt out though. That is the problem. It is too much money for him to leave on the table, and no team is paying him that much as a FA. So does the team want an unhappy star sitting on the sidelines, possibly talking to the media?

Sure, better than giving up draft assets.

It is not like trading for expiring's helps ATL sign people this offseason.

[tsherkin]

Disagree. Young is a world class playmaker. I think outside of John Stockton, Paul maybe Nash there hasn’t been such a strong passer as Young over the years

Mmm. You can probably look at some guys who weren't as good at scoring like Andre Miller and Mark Jackson. Maybe a light look at Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson. Obviously Magic. Deron Williams. Jason Kidd. Jokic. Luka. SOMEONE will try to say Rondo based on volume of assist output. You could at least author arguments for Oscar and Cousy. Isiah should be up there, as much of a muppet as he is since retiring. Norm Nixon, Kevin Porter. Even James Harden, really.

Depends on what you mean by "over the years."

If you mean "across the span of NBA history," you're definitely off-base.

If you mean "in the 21st century" or "over the past decade or so," then there's a shorter list, sure. But you mentioned Stockton, and he retired more than 20 years ago, so...

Trae's certainly someone whose playmaking deserves a lot of attention, but he definitely isn't a top-4 playmaker in league history.

[MiamiSPX]

Trae is not opting out. That is precisely why ATL wants to move him.

[tsherkin]

Trae is not opting out. That is precisely why ATL wants to move him.

He's an expiring next year if he opts in, though, so they have time. He might actually have MORE value next year in that context, no?

[WeThe2019Champs]

Hard pass, garbage player.

[Merit]

Grange basically saying IQ is a negative asset lol, damn

People are finally coming around. He’s an amazing 6th man, but needs to show more in terms of passing.

We are not going to move IQ with anything more than one second attached. Picks are gold to this front office. Therefore, it’s likely he stays or gets moved in a larger Rudy Gay trade to a team like phoenix who could use his shooting and doesn’t need any playmaking.

[Merit]

Trae is not opting out. That is precisely why ATL wants to move him.

He's an expiring next year if he opts in, though, so they have time. He might actually have MORE value next year in that context, no?

From a salary perspective possibly. From a locker room perspective you would want him gone asap.

[tsherkin]

From a salary perspective possibly. From a locker room perspective you would want him gone asap.

I mean, that depends. If you're actively seeking the player, that becomes a different story. If he's in a winning situation, then a lot of that goes away.

[Spates]

If we're taking risks I'd prefer Sabonis

Trust me you don't, his defence is pretty bad and offence will interfere with Barnes. He's also not some world class playmaker like Jokic. He's just way over paid for what he is. Him on an IQ contract I'm all for but not at his current contract. And we would need to keep jak to hide his weaknesses.

I didn't even know raptors had interest in Sabonis.

I would imagine he would assume a similar role to Jak on offense. Which is to say I think Jakob would be going the other way in any trade for Sabonis. If Scottie and Jakob can coexist I would imagine Scottie and Sabonis can as well.

Screening, diving, interior, passing, and excellent rebounding. That's what we stand to gain. But similar to Trae I'm concerned about the defense. Our defense has been steadfast without Jak so I believe, may naively, that it could maintain with Sabonis. I certainly believe he'd be less of a liability han Trae.

[Raps in 4]

I'd take a gamble on Trae. He's only 27, and if he can return to his 2019-2022 form, he's a very good player. His value is at an all-time low right now.

[Merit]

From a salary perspective possibly. From a locker room perspective you would want him gone asap.

I mean, that depends. If you're actively seeking the player, that becomes a different story. If he's in a winning situation, then a lot of that goes away.

Yes for sure. Winning matters. I’m looking at it from the hawks perspective. They have a better record when Trae doesn’t play. Their incentive is to start winning now. Trae doesn’t help that.

[Raps in 4]

Hard pass, garbage player.

29/10 on 60% TS is garbage?

He definitely hasn't been good the last few years, but the point of a buy-low trade is to get a potential reclamation project for cheap.

[MEDIC]

Grange basically saying IQ is a negative asset lol, damn

People are finally coming around. He’s an amazing 6th man, but needs to show more in terms of passing.

We are not going to move IQ with anything more than one second attached. Picks are gold to this front office. Therefore, it’s likely he stays or gets moved in a larger Rudy Gay trade to a team like phoenix who could use his shooting and doesn’t need any playmaking.

That's a good comp I think. A team that is desperate for shooting & has some extra parts/ draft picks laying around. A team that thinks an IQ type player will get them to the next level.

Its pretty crazy though. Right now IQ, RJ, BI & Scottie are all shooting very similar %'s from 3. Decent percentages, but no elite percentages from any one player.

This team truly is "the sum of its parts".

[YogurtProducer]

Grange basically saying IQ is a negative asset lol, damn

People are finally coming around. He’s an amazing 6th man, but needs to show more in terms of passing.

We are not going to move IQ with anything more than one second attached. Picks are gold to this front office. Therefore, it’s likely he stays or gets moved in a larger Rudy Gay trade to a team like phoenix who could use his shooting and doesn’t need any playmaking.

That's a good comp I think. A team that is desperate for shooting & has some extra parts/ draft picks laying around. A team that thinks an IQ type player will get them to the next level.

Its pretty crazy though. Right now IQ, RJ, BI & Scottie are all shooting very similar %'s from 3. Decent percentages, but no elite percentages from any one player.

This team truly is "the sum of its parts".

The 4 of them shoot very, very different 3 point looks though.

IQ + BI take a lot more pullup / off-balance / "higher difficulty" 3's. IQ is the only one on the team who has more than 10% of his 3's unassisted (and IQ is at 17% on that mark)

RJ/Barnes are almost all standstill c+s looks.

[Merit]

If we're taking risks I'd prefer Sabonis

Trust me you don't, his defence is pretty bad and offence will interfere with Barnes. He's also not some world class playmaker like Jokic. He's just way over paid for what he is. Him on an IQ contract I'm all for but not at his current contract. And we would need to keep jak to hide his weaknesses.

I didn't even know raptors had interest in Sabonis.

I would imagine he would assume a similar role to Jak on offense. Which is to say I think Jakob would be going the other way in any trade for Sabonis. If Scottie and Jakob can coexist I would imagine Scottie and Sabonis can as well.

Screening, diving, interior, passing, and excellent rebounding. That's what we stand to gain. But similar to Trae I'm concerned about the defense. Our defense has been steadfast without Jak so I believe, may naively, that it could maintain with Sabonis. I certainly believe he'd be less of a liability han Trae.

Actually I doubt Jak goes the other way in a Sabonis trade. It’s more likely IQ and we get someone like Devin Carter and/or Keon Ellis back as well. I really like the fit for Toronto and it would improve our spacing and our rebounding.

Something like IQ/Ochai/Gradey for Sabonis and Carter. Sacramento would go full rebuild so they’d look to pick up another big when moving say Zach Lavine.

PG Shead/Carter
SG RJ/Walter
SF BI/Battle
PF Scottie/CMB
C Sabonis/Jak

[tsherkin]

Yes for sure. Winning matters. I’m looking at it from the hawks perspective. They have a better record when Trae doesn’t play. Their incentive is to start winning now. Trae doesn’t help that.

They have a short sample of Trae playing and trying to figure out how to fit into a role alongside JJ (who has largely broken out). And he's coming back from injury. So there were always going to be some kind of stumbles along the way, because they're very different stylistically with him vs. without.

It's just frustrating that he takes a beating for not winning when they gave him very little to work with for a half-decade, and now that they've got any kind of talent in Daniels and JJ, Trae is eating ALL of the criticism and isn't really being given a chance to work his way back from injury and see if he can figure it out in Atlanta. It's the business, but it's a little disappointing.

[Merit]

People are finally coming around. He’s an amazing 6th man, but needs to show more in terms of passing.

We are not going to move IQ with anything more than one second attached. Picks are gold to this front office. Therefore, it’s likely he stays or gets moved in a larger Rudy Gay trade to a team like phoenix who could use his shooting and doesn’t need any playmaking.

That's a good comp I think. A team that is desperate for shooting & has some extra parts/ draft picks laying around. A team that thinks an IQ type player will get them to the next level.

Its pretty crazy though. Right now IQ, RJ, BI & Scottie are all shooting very similar %'s from 3. Decent percentages, but no elite percentages from any one player.

This team truly is "the sum of its parts".

The 4 of them shoot very, very different 3 point looks though.

IQ + BI take a lot more pullup / off-balance / "higher difficulty" 3's. IQ is the only one on the team who has more than 10% of his 3's unassisted (and IQ is at 17% on that mark)

RJ/Barnes are almost all standstill c+s looks.

Great point. Agreed on the whole being better than the sum of its parts. I’m still waiting to see the Jak/IQ pick and roll synergy return.

IQ taking pull-up 3s unassisted should give you an idea of where (I feel) his teammates have placed him on the priority ladder. IQ tends to pull up and seek his shot a whole lot more than others, as a 6th man gunner should do.

[Basketball_Jones]

I’ve always liked Trae, but not a fan of acquiring him now. Small guards like him tend to have very short primes and I feel his is about done and some team is going to have to figure out the puzzle on how to build a contender with him at the hub. I’d rather not be the team to take that on.

[Merit]

Yes for sure. Winning matters. I’m looking at it from the hawks perspective. They have a better record when Trae doesn’t play. Their incentive is to start winning now. Trae doesn’t help that.

They have a short sample of Trae playing and trying to figure out how to fit into a role alongside JJ (who has largely broken out). And he's coming back from injury. So there were always going to be some kind of stumbles along the way, because they're very different stylistically with him vs. without.

It's just frustrating that he takes a beating for not winning when they gave him very little to work with for a half-decade, and now that they've got any kind of talent in Daniels and JJ, Trae is eating ALL of the criticism and isn't really being given a chance to work his way back from injury and see if he can figure it out in Atlanta. It's the business, but it's a little disappointing.

I hear you and that’s totally fair. I feel that he does bear an unfair burden for being traded for Luka.

That said, he’s at his Kyle Lowry pre-raptors stage now. It’s put up or shut up time. Can he change his shot selection? Can he improve his POA defensive intensity? Can he stay focused and committed on that end?

I would absolutely trade IQ for him. In fact IQ would be a great fit on the Hawks as a 6th man since neither Daniel’s nor NAW are amazing shooters, though NAW has improved there.

[YogurtProducer]

That's a good comp I think. A team that is desperate for shooting & has some extra parts/ draft picks laying around. A team that thinks an IQ type player will get them to the next level.

Its pretty crazy though. Right now IQ, RJ, BI & Scottie are all shooting very similar %'s from 3. Decent percentages, but no elite percentages from any one player.

This team truly is "the sum of its parts".

The 4 of them shoot very, very different 3 point looks though.

IQ + BI take a lot more pullup / off-balance / "higher difficulty" 3's. IQ is the only one on the team who has more than 10% of his 3's unassisted (and IQ is at 17% on that mark)

RJ/Barnes are almost all standstill c+s looks.

Great point. Agreed on the whole being better than the sum of its parts. I’m still waiting to see the Jak/IQ pick and roll synergy return.

IQ taking pull-up 3s unassisted should give you an idea of where (I feel) his teammates have placed him on the priority ladder. IQ tends to pull up and seek his shot a whole lot more than others, as a 6th man gunner should do.

Sure, because you need someone on your team who will do that in your starting lineup.

In fact, IQ takes less pull up 3's than most teams main "shooters" do. SGA is extreme but 75% of his 3's are unassisted. But Derrick White is at 37%, Ball 25%, etc.

League average is that 85.6% of 3's are assisted. Quickley is at 83.1%. His best attribute was his ability to pull up from 3 ATB and from deep 3. That is something we seemed to have neutered a bit and I wish he would get back to it as when he hits those shots it gives soooo much room to our other guys