Siegel: Toronto trade intel

[Merit]

I simply don't like Sabonis' game. Having him and Jak on the roster at the same time is also highly unappealing to me.

Please elaborate. Imo, his passing plays up in our “egalitarian” offense. We continue to bet on BBIQ and Scottie/Bi/CMB and heck, even RJ have this. Obviously Shead does too.

[Jerry Lucas]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Elsewhere in the Eastern Conference, the Toronto Raptors keep coming up in conversations about this year's trade deadline as potential sneaky buyers, a similar position this organization was in a season ago.

Last year, the Raptors unexpectedly made a big addition by trading for Brandon Ingram despite being in a position where they were still rebuilding, and it seems like new GM Bobby Webster and this franchise will once again be aggressive on the trade market.

Although it is known that Toronto would like to move below the tax line this season, this team is also continuing to see what big moves could potentially be available to them, including stars like Anthony Davis and Domantas Sabonis at the top of the list. Sabonis is a very interesting name that keeps being connected to Toronto, with league personnel continuing to question any new information about the Raptors and Sabonis.

Perhaps there is more to the constant questions being asked about the Kings and Raptors, especially considering Toronto has two players Sacramento executive Scott Perry drafted when he was with the New York Knicks: Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett.

Given their need to find their guard of the future, maybe there is an actual path to the Kings and Raptors coming to terms on what could be the biggest deal of the trade deadline involving Sabonis. And, of course, there is then the possibility of this scenario becoming a multi-team trade.

I was just thinking about this trade on a smaller scale. I'm not really interested in Sabonis, but Monk and Ellis would help fill a couple of needs (reliable bench scoring, ducking the luxury tax).

Quickley + LA 2nd (57) for Monk + Ellis + Saric + SAC 2nd (33)

SAC:
-Gets the best overall player in the deal.
-Still young (26)
-Locked up for 4 years.

TOR:
-Fills 2 needs for 1.
*A reliable bench scorer (Monk)
*A "PG" who can play off the ball, and both shoots and defends (Ellis).
-Drops 6 million immediately from the payroll (26 million vs 32 million)
-An additional 5.4 million in cap space on Saric's expiring.
-A higher 2nd rounder in a strong draft.

In the AD thread earlier today when I brought up an IQ for Monk base swap as a possibility, I was about to add on to that post with a Fanspo trade machine outline, and I was going to use Saric+Carter as the additional salary filler required from the Kings, but you pretty much read my mind (except Ellis instead of Carter). I think this is sneakily a pretty realistic possible Plan B assuming the Hawks land AD instead of the Raptors.

IQ+RJ for Sabonis+Monk was also a possibility I thought about because of the Raptors links to him, but I personally don't want Sabonis so I didn't want to speak it into existence by throwing that 2 for 2 out there lol. Siegel throwing it out as a 2 for 3 with Keon Ellis also being part of it is pretty interesting though.

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I was just thinking about this trade on a smaller scale. I'm not really interested in Sabonis, but Monk and Ellis would help fill a couple of needs (reliable bench scoring, ducking the luxury tax).

Quickley + LA 2nd (57) for Monk + Ellis + Saric + SAC 2nd (33)

SAC:
-Gets the best overall player in the deal.
-Still young (26)
-Locked up for 4 years.

TOR:
-Fills 2 needs for 1.
*A reliable bench scorer (Monk)
*A "PG" who can play off the ball, and both shoots and defends (Ellis).
-Drops 6 million immediately from the payroll (26 million vs 32 million)
-An additional 5.4 million in cap space on Saric's expiring.
-A higher 2nd rounder in a strong draft.

In the AD thread earlier today when I brought up an IQ for Monk base swap as a possibility, I was about to add on to that post with a Fanspo trade machine outline, and I was going to use Saric+Carter as the additional salary filler required from the Kings, but you pretty much read my mind (except Ellis instead of Carter). I think this is sneakily a pretty realistic possible Plan B assuming the Hawks land AD instead of the Raptors.

IQ+RJ for Sabonis+Monk was also a possibility I thought about because of the Raptors links to him, but I personally don't want Sabonis so I didn't want to speak it into existence by throwing that 2 for 2 out there lol. Siegel throwing it out as a 2 for 3 with Keon Ellis also being part of it is pretty interesting though.

Trading RJ would be a grand mistake

[Jerry Lucas]

Certain posters are going to be in absolute shambles regarding this trade intel after crapping all over my Monk for IQ base swap idea earlier in the AD thread (hilariously I posted the idea right before Siegel's report came out so the timing couldn't have been worse there).

But bamboozling Scott Perry into reuniting with IQ makes way too much sense as the most realistic avenue to get off IQ's contract AND squeeze the most possible value you can out of it by weaponizing Scott Perry's bias against him.

[Mark_83]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I was just thinking about this trade on a smaller scale. I'm not really interested in Sabonis, but Monk and Ellis would help fill a couple of needs (reliable bench scoring, ducking the luxury tax).

Quickley + LA 2nd (57) for Monk + Ellis + Saric + SAC 2nd (33)

SAC:
-Gets the best overall player in the deal.
-Still young (26)
-Locked up for 4 years.

TOR:
-Fills 2 needs for 1.
*A reliable bench scorer (Monk)
*A "PG" who can play off the ball, and both shoots and defends (Ellis).
-Drops 6 million immediately from the payroll (26 million vs 32 million)
-An additional 5.4 million in cap space on Saric's expiring.
-A higher 2nd rounder in a strong draft.

In the AD thread earlier today when I brought up an IQ for Monk base swap as a possibility, I was about to add on to that post with a Fanspo trade machine outline, and I was going to use Saric+Carter as the additional salary filler required from the Kings, but you pretty much read my mind (except Ellis instead of Carter). I think this is sneakily a pretty realistic possible Plan B assuming the Hawks land AD instead of the Raptors.

IQ+RJ for Sabonis+Monk was also a possibility I thought about because of the Raptors links to him, but I personally don't want Sabonis so I didn't want to speak it into existence by throwing that 2 for 2 out there lol. Siegel throwing it out as a 2 for 3 with Keon Ellis also being part of it is pretty interesting though.

Funny you should say that because I originally had Devin Carter in place of Saric for salary purposes, but he's been so bad (much to my chagrin as I was very high on him at the draft) and we would be adding 3 similar-sized guards in one deal. I figured the Raptors would value the cap space more than the diminished prospect since we'd have to resign Ellis in the summer using his early bird rights.

[WWSRD]

Raptor players with positive trade value accounting for contract, ranked form most to least positive:

1. Scottie Barnes: All-world defender. Fills up stat sheet. Young. Expensive but every team in the league pays him what he's getting now given production/wining basketball.

2. Colin Murray Boyles: Rookie contract. Watch tape from Atlanta game yesterday as selling point. Full control over player going forward.

3. Mamu. Tons of teams would love to have him for a playoff run. Only a 1 year deal but he's cheap and could probably start for a few contenders. would be a great rental.

4. RJ: Went from toxic to valuable in a hurry. If it wasn't for his reputation of being Good Stats / Bad Team guy, would be even more valuable. Reasonable contract at this point. 1 more year on it, so light commitment. Could really help team that needs versatile 3rd scoring. Like he'd kill it in Denver.

5. Ingram: Expensive but earning his contract. Valuable scoring skillset.

6. Jamal Shead: Is real nice backup PG at this point. Nice short cheap contract. No long term control on him. Team might see him as future starter and want to bring him in.

I don't see any other players on this team that are worth trading assets for if you're another team.

Sure, the Wizards might like Gradey Dick or JKW and feel they'll develop, but you aren't trading anything for them. You'd pay them but you're not giving up even a low FRP for them.

Jakob's an aging big with a big contracts and back problems. He might be the most un-tradeable right now. He needs to come back and play well and stay healthy for a month before anyone touches that contract.
IQ's overpaid. Everyone knows it. Still a good player but negative trade value.


So, Sabonis has 2 more years (after this one) at ~46 million. Probably not worth the money but worth CLOSE to that money.

Who are we trading to get him? It's gotta be Jakob or IQ and FRPs that are actually past the lottery.

[ArthurVandelay]

I am changing my tune on Sabonis. Problem is Siegel isn’t what I consider a good source.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Keon Ellis would be nice

isn't he in a weird contract situation where if we trade for him, we won't be able to retain him?

[Jerry Lucas]

I was just thinking about this trade on a smaller scale. I'm not really interested in Sabonis, but Monk and Ellis would help fill a couple of needs (reliable bench scoring, ducking the luxury tax).

Quickley + LA 2nd (57) for Monk + Ellis + Saric + SAC 2nd (33)

SAC:
-Gets the best overall player in the deal.
-Still young (26)
-Locked up for 4 years.

TOR:
-Fills 2 needs for 1.
*A reliable bench scorer (Monk)
*A "PG" who can play off the ball, and both shoots and defends (Ellis).
-Drops 6 million immediately from the payroll (26 million vs 32 million)
-An additional 5.4 million in cap space on Saric's expiring.
-A higher 2nd rounder in a strong draft.

In the AD thread earlier today when I brought up an IQ for Monk base swap as a possibility, I was about to add on to that post with a Fanspo trade machine outline, and I was going to use Saric+Carter as the additional salary filler required from the Kings, but you pretty much read my mind (except Ellis instead of Carter). I think this is sneakily a pretty realistic possible Plan B assuming the Hawks land AD instead of the Raptors.

IQ+RJ for Sabonis+Monk was also a possibility I thought about because of the Raptors links to him, but I personally don't want Sabonis so I didn't want to speak it into existence by throwing that 2 for 2 out there lol. Siegel throwing it out as a 2 for 3 with Keon Ellis also being part of it is pretty interesting though.

Funny you should say that because I originally had Devin Carter in place of Saric for salary purposes, but he's been so bad (much to my chagrin as I was very high on him at the draft) and we would be adding 3 similar-sized guards in one deal. I figured the Raptors would value the cap space more than the diminished prospect since we'd have to resign Ellis in the summer using his early bird rights.

In double-checking the salary match because ESPN's trade machine always has team financials wrong, Carter would actually have to be there instead of Ellis, because the Kings are hard-capped at the 1st apron.

[Clutch0z24]

Makes sense....We prolly wanted AD but realized that deal has little chances to get done without multiple draft picks since we do not have the players Mavs are looking for.... and thats way too risky so we moved on to the 2nd option for a big and thats Sabonis....We are deff looking for a big first this deadline.

[realball]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Elsewhere in the Eastern Conference, the Toronto Raptors keep coming up in conversations about this year's trade deadline as potential sneaky buyers, a similar position this organization was in a season ago.

Last year, the Raptors unexpectedly made a big addition by trading for Brandon Ingram despite being in a position where they were still rebuilding, and it seems like new GM Bobby Webster and this franchise will once again be aggressive on the trade market.

Although it is known that Toronto would like to move below the tax line this season, this team is also continuing to see what big moves could potentially be available to them, including stars like Anthony Davis and Domantas Sabonis at the top of the list. Sabonis is a very interesting name that keeps being connected to Toronto, with league personnel continuing to question any new information about the Raptors and Sabonis.

Perhaps there is more to the constant questions being asked about the Kings and Raptors, especially considering Toronto has two players Sacramento executive Scott Perry drafted when he was with the New York Knicks: Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett.

Given their need to find their guard of the future, maybe there is an actual path to the Kings and Raptors coming to terms on what could be the biggest deal of the trade deadline involving Sabonis. And, of course, there is then the possibility of this scenario becoming a multi-team trade.

I was just thinking about this trade on a smaller scale. I'm not really interested in Sabonis, but Monk and Ellis would help fill a couple of needs (reliable bench scoring, ducking the luxury tax).

Quickley + LA 2nd (57) for Monk + Ellis + Saric + SAC 2nd (33)

SAC:
-Gets the best overall player in the deal.
-Still young (26)
-Locked up for 4 years.

TOR:
-Fills 2 needs for 1.
*A reliable bench scorer (Monk)
*A "PG" who can play off the ball, and both shoots and defends (Ellis).
-Drops 6 million immediately from the payroll (26 million vs 32 million)
-An additional 5.4 million in cap space on Saric's expiring.
-A higher 2nd rounder in a strong draft.

I doubt the Kings are going to add young players to a trade for IQ. Monk+Schroder+Saric for IQ+Ochai makes more sense. Gets us some depth and gets us under the tax.

[Jerry Lucas]

I am changing my tune on Sabonis. Problem is Siegel isn’t what I consider a good source.

The Raptors interest in guys like Sabonis and Monk have already been reported on by the Tier 2 legit reporters first (the Fischers/Steins/Scottos of the world, while Shams is in Tier 1 on his own). Monk in particular, trade rumours with the Kings involving him go back to the summer.

[bboyskinnylegs]

I'm not really a fan of a consolidation trade for a big. But if we're going to do it, I guess I'd rather target AD than Sabonis.

[planetmars]

This is a trade I can live with:



(fails because Jak can't be traded until tomorrow)


Gets both teams below the tax as well.

If we trade for Sabonis, Jak will have to go back. Otherwise we'd be including both RJ and IQ and that's a non starter for me. Trading IQ and bringing back Monk gives us a point man. I'd probably start Shead and move Monk to the bench.

[YogurtProducer]

Sabonis makes no sense for this team with Barnes and BI

Sabonis is Jak with less defense, but way better offense (shooting, back to the basket game) and rebounding. If you think the raps are amazing with 25 min of Jak, imagine 32 min of Sabonis.

But there is no straight swap of the two. We are gutting two starters for Sabonis.

Would be a horrid move IMO

[YogurtProducer]

This is a trade I can live with:



(fails because Jak can't be traded until tomorrow)


Gets both teams below the tax as well.

If we trade for Sabonis, Jak will have to go back. Otherwise we'd be including both RJ and IQ and that's a non starter for me. Trading IQ and bringing back Monk gives us a point man. I'd probably start Shead and move Monk to the bench.

Horrible.

Why do we do this? We want to take a top 5 defence and just open up 2 targets for opponents to attack?

[YogurtProducer]

In the AD thread earlier today when I brought up an IQ for Monk base swap as a possibility, I was about to add on to that post with a Fanspo trade machine outline, and I was going to use Saric+Carter as the additional salary filler required from the Kings, but you pretty much read my mind (except Ellis instead of Carter). I think this is sneakily a pretty realistic possible Plan B assuming the Hawks land AD instead of the Raptors.

IQ+RJ for Sabonis+Monk was also a possibility I thought about because of the Raptors links to him, but I personally don't want Sabonis so I didn't want to speak it into existence by throwing that 2 for 2 out there lol. Siegel throwing it out as a 2 for 3 with Keon Ellis also being part of it is pretty interesting though.

Funny you should say that because I originally had Devin Carter in place of Saric for salary purposes, but he's been so bad (much to my chagrin as I was very high on him at the draft) and we would be adding 3 similar-sized guards in one deal. I figured the Raptors would value the cap space more than the diminished prospect since we'd have to resign Ellis in the summer using his early bird rights.

In double-checking the salary match because ESPN's trade machine always has team financials wrong, Carter would actually have to be there instead of Ellis, because the Kings are hard-capped at the 1st apron.

Spoiler:

Makes no sense to me.

For starters, why do we want to add ANOTHER shooting guard to an already crowded 2 guard rotation?

Why do we want to go from IQ --> Monk? That is a downgrade.

Saric also is just useless

I really, really hope we don't do this deal. If we are worried about tax just move off agbaji for a protected 2nd. Don't go giving away good players for worse ones.

[Jerry Lucas]

I already posted something similar in the AD thread but figured it should be mentioned in this thread too, since a lot of posters are thinking Poeltl would be out the door in a Sabonis move.

When Jake Fischer reported on the Raptors interest in AD and Sabonis, he already shot down the notion that the Raptors contextual interest in adding one of those bigs would be as an upgrade on Poeltl at the 5. He said the Raptors have no plans on trading Poeltl, and would want to add one of those bigs while keeping Poeltl. Seems like if the Raptors got one of those guys they would start him at the 4 (as extremely weird as it may seem with Sabonis in particular).

Which IMO means the bad money the Raptors are widely reported to be exploring moving off of pretty much has to be IQ. The reported IQ+RJ for Sabonis+Monk+Ellis framework further corroborates this.

Plus next season RJ is going to be on an expiring contract, so I seriously doubt that kind of reporting could be referring to RJ's contract anymore.

[planetmars]

This is a trade I can live with:



(fails because Jak can't be traded until tomorrow)


Gets both teams below the tax as well.

If we trade for Sabonis, Jak will have to go back. Otherwise we'd be including both RJ and IQ and that's a non starter for me. Trading IQ and bringing back Monk gives us a point man. I'd probably start Shead and move Monk to the bench.

Horrible.

Why do we do this? We want to take a top 5 defence and just open up 2 targets for opponents to attack?

I don't think the defense suffers. Sabonis is an elite rebounder (way better than Jak) and rebounds stop possessions or gain new ones. Jak is a great defender but he's also looking like he's damaged goods. He plays even less than Anthony Davis does. No joke.

You surround Sabonis with Scottie or CMB and the defense will be fine.

Besides last year Sabonis played on some elite defensive lineups. Including one with Monk. Those two with DeMar, Ellis and Murray had a DRTG of 102.2 in 201 minutes. And a NRTG over 17. And yes that included DeMar in that lineup.

I think the best thing is that it will raise our offense's ceiling. Sabonis can get easy buckets, right at the rim. He's got a corner 3 as well that can open things up.. and is one of the best screen setters in the game opening up the court for guys like RJ and Scottie when they have the ball.

He's also durable. Played all 82 games a couple of seasons back. Availability is very important to me.

[MEDIC]

[.

I like that. Looks like the Rudy Gay trade. Gives us way more depth & experience.