Trae to wizards for CJ

[Freeman6]

For the people saying Atlanta traded Trae for nothing that isn't the case. Dallas wants picks and expirings for AD which Atlanta now has. They probably could have got better value pound for pound but the trade was a means to an end that most likely puts AD in Atlanta before the deadline.

[ConSarnit]

I mean the reason we would be paying a pick is not because Trae is good or that we'd want him, it's because the Hawks would be taking on 4 years of tons of money for Jak and IQ while Trae expires next year.

Everyone needs to recalibrate what they think these overpaid chuckers are worth. MPJ required a pick to get off his deal, too. MPJ will have plenty of value next year...when he's expiring.

I would bet we never came close to offering any of that for Trae.

I don't think our FO views IQ/Jak nearly as negatively as RealGM does.

No, they don't. But what our FO thinks of our players doesn't matter. It's what the the team you're trading to thinks of the players, as the Hawks learned when they thought they should get picks for Trae while the Wizards informed them that it's the other way around.

And "what they think of the players" as actual talent in the apron era is often secondary to the size and length of contract. To the Hawks, Kispert is 3 years of money they just don't want to pay to him, which likely is where the negotiation for picks ended as that's the Wizards compensation for taking on Trae.

Let’s say we traded IQ and Poeltl for Trae. What is your plan going from there? We let Trae expire and then we have to fill both the starting pg and center position? With cap space? When have we ever signed any decent starter (let alone 2) in free agency? Using draft picks to trade for someone? So we dump 2 starters only to have to give up multiple draft picks to fill their open spots? And if Trae opts in next year? That barely improves our cap situation and leaves us with no starting C (or at least the potential of one if Poeltl gets healthy).

Unless your plan is to completely tear this team down and tank I don’t see how dumping IQ or Poeltl helps us right now. We won’t be able to fill their roles using cap space (which for our entire history has ended up having us overpay and then we are right back to having 2 more IQ/Poeltl contracts). Or we have to spend 2 (or more 1sts) trying to trade for starters, most likely to build the same level team we already have.

If Poeltl and IQ are bad contacts (ymmv) we have to ride it out until either IQ’s contract declines relative to the cap or Jak gets healthy. We cannot trade these guys for nothing if the plan is to remain competitive.

[sidsid]

Agreed, although CJ is playing well and can help the Hawks this season or perhaps be involved in a bigger deal like AD.

CJ can’t be aggregated with other salary once the deal is official. Definitely a chance that Dallas gets roped in before official though, but doesn’t sound like it.

Hawks still have PorIngis' expiring contract...so they can attach Risacher and another contract.

The likely deal is Porz + Kennard + prospect/talent (Richaser, OO or NAW) for salary to match.

The delay to include the CJ contract instead of Kennard + talent would signal that they're willing to hit aprons next year to keep all their talent. I have a feeling that's not the case and the Hawks are still cheap.

[ConSarnit]

Why would they give Trae a raise? If Trae is going to play hardball tell him he can just opt out of his $48m next year if he doesn’t want an extension.

The Wiz hold the cards here. They are one of the few cap space team who might actually give him $40m/yr. If he walks who cares. All if cost then was overpaid Kispert.

If the Wiz are going to go the FVV/Harris route of overpaying a vet they’re going to have to keep some real cap space open.

Ingram got 25% of the cap. Why would the Wiz give Trae (a guy who just got flat out dumped) more than that?

My guess is Trae gets 3/130 with a PO in the 3rd year.

Because they have to hit the salary floor! They are going to HAVE to drastically overpay someone.

The negotiation already happened. Trae didnt request a trade to the wizards without agreeing to something.

It's this. If I am not mistaken, Young can be extended right away. So I expect the announcement on a new contract in the next few days. Just like us with BI.

I’m not saying they won’t overpay Trae. I’m saying they shouldn’t based on the leverage they have. If the Wiz were smart they would not overpay Trae.

Hitting the salary floor is not some monumental task when you can just massively overpay free agents on 1-2 year deals or take on bad contracts.

[TorontoBarneys]

I wish we still had Norman Powell on the team, man.

[MiamiSPX]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[bartron_44]

Could Porzingis (expiring), Risacher , Kennard (expiring) and Daniels be enough to land them a package something like AD, Exum and Caleb Martin?

Thats a pretty solid package of two young players to go with Flagg, and over 40M in expiring contracts. Dallas resets around its youth, and Atlanta suddenly looks pretty dangerous ….when AD is healthy anyway.

[mdenny]

Because they have to hit the salary floor! They are going to HAVE to drastically overpay someone.

The negotiation already happened. Trae didnt request a trade to the wizards without agreeing to something.

It's this. If I am not mistaken, Young can be extended right away. So I expect the announcement on a new contract in the next few days. Just like us with BI.

I’m not saying they won’t overpay Trae. I’m saying they shouldn’t based on the leverage they have. If the Wiz were smart they would not overpay Trae.

Hitting the salary floor is not some monumental task when you can just massively overpay free agents on 1-2 year deals or take on bad contracts.

To your last point. Trae IS the free agent they are going to over pay for 1 to 2 years to hit the floor lol. Not sure how you're agreeing they have to do that and not seeing that Trae is the guy they are doing it with.

It's not quite as easy as you might think. There's only so many free agents and some of them don't want short term deals and some of them have preferences for where they want to play. So when you find the guy....like they found trae....you do it.

Unrelated note....i find it interesting that this thread has alot of similarities to the "rockets sign FVV" thread from 3 years ago. I think this was a great move for washington and for the first time, i think they're actually on track now. I think atlanta is gonna end up turning this into AD so it's a great move for them too. Atlanta was not gonna be able to commit money to AD without having the big expiring contract (mccollum).

[God Squad]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

This is so sad, but true.

[ConSarnit]

It's this. If I am not mistaken, Young can be extended right away. So I expect the announcement on a new contract in the next few days. Just like us with BI.

I’m not saying they won’t overpay Trae. I’m saying they shouldn’t based on the leverage they have. If the Wiz were smart they would not overpay Trae.

Hitting the salary floor is not some monumental task when you can just massively overpay free agents on 1-2 year deals or take on bad contracts.

To your last point. Trae IS the free agent they are going to over pay for 1 to 2 years to hit the floor lol. Not sure how you're agreeing they have to do that and not seeing that Trae is the guy they are doing it with.

I’ve already outlined my position on this. Reasons why they should play hardball with Trae:

-who are his other suitors who are going to give him $40m/yr?

-the Wiz gave up nothing for him. If they lose him for nothing they are no worse for wear

I already said that I believe the best course of action for the Wiz would be to play hardball with Trae and the money saved would be better used in free agency. If they lose Trae for nothing they can hit the salary floor through salary dumps and 1 year free agent overpays.

Trae is A free agent. They are going to need more than 1 if they are looking to take the next step.

Could they overpay Trae? Sure. Should they? No.

I’m really not sure what’s so difficult to understand about my position?

Edit re: free agents. We see multiple overpays all of the time. It’s the new norm. If you’re going to offer a guy 3x salary for 1 year that guy is going to take that deal. You’ve also completely ignored the Wizards ability to take on salary dumps into their space, which is another way to use cap room.

[YogurtProducer]

No, they don't. But what our FO thinks of our players doesn't matter. It's what the the team you're trading to thinks of the players, as the Hawks learned when they thought they should get picks for Trae while the Wizards informed them that it's the other way around.

Uhhh yes it does?

Our FO obviously is a big fan of Poeltl, and considering the opportunities they give IQ (like drawing up game winning 3's), they obviously have some faith in the guy to.

I don't think our FO is looking to move these guys as aggressively as this board wants them to be. This board is posting **** salary dumps, and I can guarantee you that the FO is not looking to just dump them for expiring's and picks. If they trade really any of our core 5 guys its going to be for undeniable talent upgrades, not rebuild-esque moves.

[SurgeIblocka]

If Bobby didnt extend Poetel and just looked to resign in offseason we wouldn’t have this mess and Jakob could have been traded as an expiring

[MiamiSPX]

I’m not saying they won’t overpay Trae. I’m saying they shouldn’t based on the leverage they have. If the Wiz were smart they would not overpay Trae.

Hitting the salary floor is not some monumental task when you can just massively overpay free agents on 1-2 year deals or take on bad contracts.

To your last point. Trae IS the free agent they are going to over pay for 1 to 2 years to hit the floor lol. Not sure how you're agreeing they have to do that and not seeing that Trae is the guy they are doing it with.

I’ve already outlined my position on this. Reasons why they should play hardball with Trae:

-who are his other suitors who are going to give him $40m/yr?

-the Wiz gave up nothing for him. If they lose him for nothing they are no worse for wear

I already said that I believe the best course of action for the Wiz would be to play hardball with Trae and the money saved would be better used in free agency. If they lose Trae for nothing they can hit the salary floor through salary dumps and 1 year free agent overpays.

Trae is A free agent. They are going to need more than 1 if they are looking to take the next step.

Could they overpay Trae? Sure. Should they? No.

I’m really not sure what’s so difficult to understand about my position?

Edit re: free agents. We see multiple overpays all of the time. It’s the new norm. If you’re going to offer a guy 3x salary for 1 year that guy is going to take that deal. You’ve also completely ignored the Wizards ability to take on salary dumps into their space, which is another way to use cap room.

It's possible the Wizards just really like and want Trae Young. The GM who drafted him is now a Senior VP in the Wizards FO.

[ConSarnit]

No, they don't. But what our FO thinks of our players doesn't matter. It's what the the team you're trading to thinks of the players, as the Hawks learned when they thought they should get picks for Trae while the Wizards informed them that it's the other way around.

Uhhh yes it does?

Our FO obviously is a big fan of Poeltl, and considering the opportunities they give IQ (like drawing up game winning 3's), they obviously have some faith in the guy to.

I don't think our FO is looking to move these guys as aggressively as this board wants them to be. This board is posting **** salary dumps, and I can guarantee you that the FO is not looking to just dump them for expiring's and picks. If they trade really any of our core 5 guys its going to be for undeniable talent upgrades, not rebuild-esque moves.

Dumping them makes no sense unless the plan is a full on tank (which seems highly unlikely). Even if we dumped IQ and Poeltl for nothing we still have to fill those roles if we want to remain competitive. We have never been a free agent player so rule that option out. Trading for 2 legit starters costs multiple 1sts. That path makes little sense to me.

As you said, the only trades that make sense are clear upgrades. Full on tank at this point makes little sense. Maintaining the status quo with 2 new starters isn’t easily achieved.

[ConSarnit]

To your last point. Trae IS the free agent they are going to over pay for 1 to 2 years to hit the floor lol. Not sure how you're agreeing they have to do that and not seeing that Trae is the guy they are doing it with.

I’ve already outlined my position on this. Reasons why they should play hardball with Trae:

-who are his other suitors who are going to give him $40m/yr?

-the Wiz gave up nothing for him. If they lose him for nothing they are no worse for wear

I already said that I believe the best course of action for the Wiz would be to play hardball with Trae and the money saved would be better used in free agency. If they lose Trae for nothing they can hit the salary floor through salary dumps and 1 year free agent overpays.

Trae is A free agent. They are going to need more than 1 if they are looking to take the next step.

Could they overpay Trae? Sure. Should they? No.

I’m really not sure what’s so difficult to understand about my position?

Edit re: free agents. We see multiple overpays all of the time. It’s the new norm. If you’re going to offer a guy 3x salary for 1 year that guy is going to take that deal. You’ve also completely ignored the Wizards ability to take on salary dumps into their space, which is another way to use cap room.

It's possible the Wizards just really like and want Trae Young. The GM who drafted him is now a Senior VP in the Wizards FO.

I agree with this. I assume they like Trae and think he can help them transition to winning.

They should not overpay him just because they like him though. They have many holes to fill if they want to take the next step and that’s going to require lucrative contracts being handed out to guys who might not want to be there at this point of the Wizards rebuild if they were being paid the market rate.

[JShuttlesworth]

I don't think there's a market for guys like Trae Young and LaMelo Ball, and this trade with Washington demonstrates that. These type of guards make a lot of money and don't really play winning basketball

I totally understand why Atlanta made this trade, they get out of this Trae contract, and choose a clear direction. But I'm going to be honest, I don't really understand what the Wizards are thinking with this one. I assume CJ was going to leave this summer, so they essentially Kispert for Young, pretty good value. But re-signing Trae Young at $40+ million per season for 4 years would be the most Washington type of decision

[mihaic]

For the people saying Atlanta traded Trae for nothing that isn't the case. Dallas wants picks and expirings for AD which Atlanta now has. They probably could have got better value pound for pound but the trade was a means to an end that most likely puts AD in Atlanta before the deadline.

If that is their end game they should've made it a multi team trade. Why take the risk.

They may be left with mccollum and kispert. Also AD may want to be extended at max before he sets foot on the court.

[sidsid]

No, they don't. But what our FO thinks of our players doesn't matter. It's what the the team you're trading to thinks of the players, as the Hawks learned when they thought they should get picks for Trae while the Wizards informed them that it's the other way around.

Uhhh yes it does?

Our FO obviously is a big fan of Poeltl, and considering the opportunities they give IQ (like drawing up game winning 3's), they obviously have some faith in the guy to.

I don't think our FO is looking to move these guys as aggressively as this board wants them to be. This board is posting **** salary dumps, and I can guarantee you that the FO is not looking to just dump them for expiring's and picks. If they trade really any of our core 5 guys its going to be for undeniable talent upgrades, not rebuild-esque moves.

Dumping them makes no sense unless the plan is a full on tank (which seems highly unlikely). Even if we dumped IQ and Poeltl for nothing we still have to fill those roles if we want to remain competitive. We have never been a free agent player so rule that option out. Trading for 2 legit starters costs multiple 1sts. That path makes little sense to me.

As you said, the only trades that make sense are clear upgrades. Full on tank at this point makes little sense. Maintaining the status quo with 2 new starters isn’t easily achieved.

The hypothetical isn't about what the FO actually wants to do. It's what would it take to get Trae on this team. We now have a concrete trade showing very specifically a salary dump for the Hawks. We do not have large expiring salaries to trade them. We have the exact opposite, which the Hawks, like the Wiz did to them, would look to extract a premium to take on.

[mihaic]

Could Porzingis (expiring), Risacher , Kennard (expiring) and Daniels be enough to land them a package something like AD, Exum and Caleb Martin?

Thats a pretty solid package of two young players to go with Flagg, and over 40M in expiring contracts. Dallas resets around its youth, and Atlanta suddenly looks pretty dangerous ….when AD is healthy anyway.

Dallas may be after the Pelicans pick.

[Freeman6]

For the people saying Atlanta traded Trae for nothing that isn't the case. Dallas wants picks and expirings for AD which Atlanta now has. They probably could have got better value pound for pound but the trade was a means to an end that most likely puts AD in Atlanta before the deadline.

If that is their end game they should've made it a multi team trade. Why take the risk.

They may be left with mccollum and kispert. Also AD may want to be extended at max before he sets foot on the court.

Maybe they're still negotiating with Dallas who is looking for the highest bid and are okay with being left with cj and kispert if a deal for AD doesn't materialize like they hope. We're assuming they could have done better for trae we don't actually know that for sure tho. More teams have been saying they're not interested in trae than teams have been saying they are. The market might not be what you think it is.

All that to say they moved forward toward their goal of acquiring AD and are closer than they were yesterday so it wasn't a trade for nothing.