Ja/AD ≠ BI. Much riskier and worse value

[LoveMyRaps]

I don't love the idea of trading for either of these guys. Lots of risk with them, and not likely a very significant window, either.

Morant gives you a 2-3 year window with Scottie, Ingram, and Morant.

Very high risk/high reward play. Is it worth it? I'm not sure.

[Clutch0z24]

I don't love the idea of trading for either of these guys. Lots of risk with them, and not likely a very significant window, either.

Morant gives you a 2-3 year window with Scottie, Ingram, and Morant.

Very high risk/high reward play. Is it worth it? I'm not sure.

It is because what are we doing in the 2-3 year window without it?....Developing IQ to be the next Maxey? Lol....Waiting for Barnes to be Giannis/Kawhi and lead us to the promise land?....I mean in the next 2-3 years with this current team you are looking at 1st/2nd round exits being the ceiling...

If you want to be on the team compete timeline bring in high end talent that have higher ceilings.

[tsherkin]

I don't love the idea of trading for either of these guys. Lots of risk with them, and not likely a very significant window, either.

Morant gives you a 2-3 year window with Scottie, Ingram, and Morant.

Very high risk/high reward play. Is it worth it? I'm not sure.

No, it's not.

He WILL be injured. He WILL be inefficient. He is a liability away from the rim. He's also a dumbass. He's just problematic. He also has a short window because he can't do anything BUT drive. Now, that addresses a core weakness in the team, but we don't win a title by trading for me, that's for sure. And we don't open up the door for extended success, which is a much more realistic and relevant goal for us.

Title contention, that's fine. We aren't doing that again any time soon, But a 5- to 7-year window of reasonable competition in-conference? That should be our goal. Not 1 or 2 seasons of making the second round before returning to NBA hell.

[timdunkit]

I don't love the idea of trading for either of these guys. Lots of risk with them, and not likely a very significant window, either.

Morant gives you a 2-3 year window with Scottie, Ingram, and Morant.

Very high risk/high reward play. Is it worth it? I'm not sure.

No, it's not.

He WILL be injured. He WILL be inefficient. He is a liability away from the rim. He's also a dumbass. He's just problematic. He also has a short window because he can't do anything BUT drive. Now, that addresses a core weakness in the team, but we don't win a title by trading for me, that's for sure. And we don't open up the door for extended success, which is a much more realistic and relevant goal for us.

Title contention, that's fine. We aren't doing that again any time soon, But a 5- to 7-year window of reasonable competition in-conference? That should be our goal. Not 1 or 2 seasons of making the second round before returning to NBA hell.

If AD was 2-3 years younger, I'd be open to trading it. Ja hasn't shown any improvement in his game to validate taking the risk. LaMelo is more interesting because he is younger, but he also comes with his own problems.

The Raptors shouldn't be desperate - they are in a decent position to make a consolidation move for an upgrade, and more names should pop up in the summer or next season. At the same time, I wonder if there is a sense we need to offload Poetl now.

[Clutch0z24]

I don't love the idea of trading for either of these guys. Lots of risk with them, and not likely a very significant window, either.

Morant gives you a 2-3 year window with Scottie, Ingram, and Morant.

Very high risk/high reward play. Is it worth it? I'm not sure.

No, it's not.

He WILL be injured. He WILL be inefficient. He is a liability away from the rim. He's also a dumbass. He's just problematic. He also has a short window because he can't do anything BUT drive. Now, that addresses a core weakness in the team, but we don't win a title by trading for me, that's for sure. And we don't open up the door for extended success, which is a much more realistic and relevant goal for us.

Title contention, that's fine. We aren't doing that again any time soon, But a 5- to 7-year window of reasonable competition in-conference? That should be our goal. Not 1 or 2 seasons of making the second round before returning to NBA hell.

How do you propose we compete with this current core of IQ/Barrett/Barnes/Ingram/Yak? with RJ getting an extension in free agency soon that locks the team with that core for the forseeable future?....What is your plan to actually compete and not be first/2nd round fodder every year? If we were to lose Ingram or Barnes to injury for even a 10-15 game stretch you a below 500 team anyways you will be in NBA hell regardless...

[tsherkin]

If AD was 2-3 years younger, I'd be open to trading it.

Yeah, if he wasn't already an injury-addled 32 year-old, it'd be different. And he wouldn't be available to us, of course.

Ja hasn't shown any improvement in his game to validate taking the risk. LaMelo is more interesting because he is younger, but he also comes with his own problems.

Younger, sure, but not really better upstairs, nor in terms of availability. Nor is he a particularly good scorer. But again, a guy who can gain the paint and move the ball, so I see why people are talking about him, as with Ja.

The Raptors shouldn't be desperate - they are in a decent position to make a consolidation move for an upgrade, and more names should pop up in the summer or next season. At the same time, I wonder if there is a sense we need to offload Poetl now.

I get that there are tax pressures and all that, but yeah, we need to not make a premature move. Being too hasty has already cost us a bunch of times.

[tsherkin]

How do you propose we compete with this current core of IQ/Barrett/Barnes/Ingram/Yak? with RJ getting an extension in free agency soon that locks the team with that core for the forseeable future?....What is your plan to actually compete and not be first/2nd round fodder every year? If we were to lose Ingram or Barnes to injury for even a 10-15 game stretch you a below 500 team anyways you will be in NBA hell regardless...

We will be 2nd round fodder at best for a couple seasons with Ja or AD, if they stay healthy-ish, anyway. And then we'll be in an even worse position.

We need to not give up our draft capital for short-sighted nonsense moves, and try to build off of that.

[DreamTeam09]

still acting like RJ is a scrab is asinine, that man has does everything we've asked him to do, we are winning team with him & he's playing efficient ball. Trading him for malcontent injury prone crappy attitudes doesn't elevate us in neway shape or form

[Clutch0z24]

How do you propose we compete with this current core of IQ/Barrett/Barnes/Ingram/Yak? with RJ getting an extension in free agency soon that locks the team with that core for the forseeable future?....What is your plan to actually compete and not be first/2nd round fodder every year? If we were to lose Ingram or Barnes to injury for even a 10-15 game stretch you a below 500 team anyways you will be in NBA hell regardless...

We will be 2nd round fodder at best for a couple seasons with Ja or AD, if they stay healthy-ish, anyway. And then we'll be in an even worse position.

We need to not give up our draft capital for short-sighted nonsense moves, and try to build off of that.

You think we are giving up significant draft capital in either deal? Its most likely 1 FRP that would be in the 20s anyways? Thats not a steep price to pay for the potential talent upgrade you would recieve if it goes well....

Holding onto Yak/IQ/RJ also has risk because these guys have not been healthy either....This core has not played many games together since they been together ....They are injury prone as well....Also there is risk of losing RJ for nothing if you can't get off Yak/IQ....

The plan should be try to give yourself the best chance to actually be contenders while you have Ingram/Barnes under contract for the next 3 or so years not try to be middle of the pack 1st round exit or you are just wasting Ingram/Barnes duo...

[tsherkin]

You think we are giving up significant draft capital in either deal? Its most likely 1 FRP that would be in the 20s anyways? Thats not a steep price to pay for the potential talent upgrade you would recieve if it goes well....

I don't want to give up any of our FRPs, no.

I think we can probably move Yak and/or IQ, bring something in and remain competitive enough to engage the fan base. I don't really want to deal with Ja (who wouldn't be a good choice to run volume offense through) for various reasons, nor AD.

They are injury prone as well....Also there is risk of losing RJ for nothing if you can't get off Yak/IQ....

And both Ja and AD are heavily prone to missing time as well. And while Ja can gain the lane and make a pass, he isn't a good volume scorer. And if we give up someone like RJ in the process, our scoring gets materially worse even after factoring in Morant's playmaking.

The plan should be try to give yourself the best chance to actually be contenders while you have Ingram/Barnes under contract for the next 3 or so years not try to be middle of the pack 1st round exit or you are just wasting Ingram/Barnes duo...

We aren't contending for anything but the 2nd round with either of those trades regardless.

[Clutch0z24]

You think we are giving up significant draft capital in either deal? Its most likely 1 FRP that would be in the 20s anyways? Thats not a steep price to pay for the potential talent upgrade you would recieve if it goes well....

I don't want to give up any of our FRPs, no.

I think we can probably move Yak and/or IQ, bring something in and remain competitive enough to engage the fan base. I don't really want to deal with Ja (who wouldn't be a good choice to run volume offense through) for various reasons, nor AD.

They are injury prone as well....Also there is risk of losing RJ for nothing if you can't get off Yak/IQ....

And both Ja and AD are heavily prone to missing time as well. And while Ja can gain the lane and make a pass, he isn't a good volume scorer. And if we give up someone like RJ in the process, our scoring gets materially worse even after factoring in Morant's playmaking.

The plan should be try to give yourself the best chance to actually be contenders while you have Ingram/Barnes under contract for the next 3 or so years not try to be middle of the pack 1st round exit or you are just wasting Ingram/Barnes duo...

We aren't contending for anything but the 2nd round with either of those trades regardless.

So basicaly you are saying we are going to suck anyways so why try and take a gamble on the higher upside higher ceiling players because they will suck or be injured anyways (When Yak/IQ/RJ are also not a good example of iron men in the NBA) ....

Btw go look at the percentages of a player of value being picked in the 20s in the draft....You are likely getting a player out of the league in a few years or a low end role player.....Its not the best spot to be playing the draft at....

AD raises the ceiling dramatically for the team and Ja Morant most likely won't cost you RJ it would prolly be IQ/Dick/Draft pick .....You are not losing as much value as your outrage warrents....Its minimal assets going out for potential higher gains....Which if you are serious about trying to compete with Ingram/Barnes you take gambles on players like these that raise the ceiling of the team....

No 20th draft pick is saving us and no Giannis is coming to Toronto either....Gambling on high upside low costing stars is what we will need to do....

And if you are not serious about actually being contenders just blow it up now and stop wasting years of middling.

[Kurtz]

Now we are seeing IQ + Yak + RJ + first round picks

This makes the trade absolutely nothing like the BI trade or the Trae trade. It's nothing like the Kawhi trade either.

You don't think that a IQ+Yak+1st for AD has, like, a ridiculous amount of similarity to our Kawhi trade?

[tsherkin]

So basicaly you are saying we are going to suck anyways so why try and take a gamble on the higher upside higher ceiling players because they will suck or be injured anyways (When Yak/IQ/RJ are also not a good example of iron men in the NBA) ....

And because they don't address most of our core issues. Other, better teams have been trying to do what you're talking about and failing. Ja might be entirely out of the league in 3 or 4 years. He's falling apart in a couple of ways, and I don't know how he'd react to us if we tried to give him a smaller role on offense in terms of scoring volume because of his weak scoring efficiency.

Btw go look at the percentages of a player of value being picked in the 20s in the draft....You are likely getting a player out of the league in a few years or a low end role player.....Its not the best spot to be playing the draft at....

I'd still rather have them than not.

AD raises the ceiling dramatically for the team

Does he? For the half season he's likely to play, he'll help a lot when he's playing healthy. He's rarely healthy come the playoffs. But he's also not a take-over scorer, and while he's a good defender, he's going to do only so much for us in his 30s when we still won't likely have a good slasher to drive the team alongside him.

and Ja Morant most likely won't cost you RJ it would prolly be IQ/Dick/Draft pick .....You are not losing as much value as your outrage warrents....Its minimal assets going out for potential higher gains.

"Outrage" is a weird and inaccurate word to use here, lol. I just don't want us to trade for these players.

I'd really rather not use an FRP on a rental of Ja Morant. We'd get like 2.5 years of contract and like 1.25 seasons worth of actual play from an inefficient volume shooter who can get into the paint and move the ball. That's... not really worth it. Especially if he keeps racking up suspensions.

And AD is a $60M player who has a PO he likely wouldn't take for 2028. I'm not seeing the point.

[WuTang_CMB]

How do you propose we compete with this current core of IQ/Barrett/Barnes/Ingram/Yak? with RJ getting an extension in free agency soon that locks the team with that core for the forseeable future?....What is your plan to actually compete and not be first/2nd round fodder every year? If we were to lose Ingram or Barnes to injury for even a 10-15 game stretch you a below 500 team anyways you will be in NBA hell regardless...

We will be 2nd round fodder at best for a couple seasons with Ja or AD, if they stay healthy-ish, anyway. And then we'll be in an even worse position.

We need to not give up our draft capital for short-sighted nonsense moves, and try to build off of that.

Who knows. The East is weak. Bobby loves a bargain. If you are upgrading the talent and get off IQ who you dont think is the best fit for your club, Bobby is 100% doing it.

[Westside Gunn]

I wouldnt mind doing a Quickley+Filler swap but it might not solve the problems this team has.

If you bring in Ja, he takes away shots from Barnes and Ingram. Reason why our big 4 has worked so well is because Quickley is willing to take less shots than all the 4. I believe current seasons stats also back that up.

Team needs to find a backup big that can be a starter in 1-2 years.

Im shocked the raptors are in the mix even after that hand injury to AD. This **** needs to stop

[tsherkin]

No 20th draft pick is saving us and no Giannis is coming to Toronto either....Gambling on high upside low costing stars is what we will need to do....

No one pick is likely to save us. It's more about being patient and accumulating assets instead of trying to take shortcuts with bad choices.

And if you are not serious about actually being contenders just blow it up now and stop wasting years of middling.

I mean, we both know ownership isn't going to do that. They will almost assuredly sell our future short for a chance at playoff cash now, and then moan and complain when it all blows up in their faces.

[tsherkin]

Who knows. The East is weak.

I don't think we're beating New York or healthy Cleveland even if we manage the trades. And in subsequent seasons, if Milwaukee puts anything next to Giannis, or if Tatum comes back reasonably healthy... I don't really see it.

If you are upgrading the talent and get off IQ who you dont think is the best fit for your club, Bobby is 100% doing it.

THe question is, though, is any of that really an upgrade once you factor in the full details of what it would take to get them plus their issues of availability? You do need to be ON the court to impact the game, and that's been one of the major issues with both AD and Ja for a very long time... and one which isn't going to improve as they age.

[Clutch0z24]

So basicaly you are saying we are going to suck anyways so why try and take a gamble on the higher upside higher ceiling players because they will suck or be injured anyways (When Yak/IQ/RJ are also not a good example of iron men in the NBA) ....

And because they don't address most of our core issues. Other, better teams have been trying to do what you're talking about and failing. Ja might be entirely out of the league in 3 or 4 years. He's falling apart in a couple of ways, and I don't know how he'd react to us if we tried to give him a smaller role on offense in terms of scoring volume because of his weak scoring efficiency.

Btw go look at the percentages of a player of value being picked in the 20s in the draft....You are likely getting a player out of the league in a few years or a low end role player.....Its not the best spot to be playing the draft at....

I'd still rather have them than not.

AD raises the ceiling dramatically for the team

Does he? For the half season he's likely to play, he'll help a lot when he's playing healthy. He's rarely healthy come the playoffs. But he's also not a take-over scorer, and while he's a good defender, he's going to do only so much for us in his 30s when we still won't likely have a good slasher to drive the team alongside him.

and Ja Morant most likely won't cost you RJ it would prolly be IQ/Dick/Draft pick .....You are not losing as much value as your outrage warrents....Its minimal assets going out for potential higher gains.

"Outrage" is a weird and inaccurate word to use here, lol. I just don't want us to trade for these players.

I'd really rather not use an FRP on a rental of Ja Morant. We'd get like 2.5 years of contract and like 1.25 seasons worth of actual play from an inefficient volume shooter who can get into the paint and move the ball. That's... not really worth it. Especially if he keeps racking up suspensions.

And AD is a $60M player who has a PO he likely wouldn't take for 2028. I'm not seeing the point.

To me it feels like you are over dramatically downplaying AD/Morants potential talents and what they could do for us if they do workout for us and you are also over stating the cost here....Again we are not giving up 4 FRPs here like Knicks did or Magic did....We are giving up guys who most likely are not apart of Bobbys future plans with this franchise anyways long term...And 1 pick which will be in the 20s.....Low price to pay on the potential outcome....

[tsherkin]

[
To me it feels like you are over dramatically downplaying AD/Morants potential talents

That'd mean you're not listening, at least with respect to AD. If he's healthy, he's very good. Not enough to get us out of the conference and certainly not enough to win a title as the focal guy, but he's very good. Unfortunately, he's brittle as hell, in his 30s and a big man who isn't a take-over scorer. That just is what it is.

With Ja? He has a single season in his entire career managing league-average efficiency or better, and it was only 57 games long. He has NEVER played more than 67 games in a season. He is a weak shooter, a small guard who thrives slashing into the lane and drawing contact, which is an archetype which does not age well. He has also been pretty bad in the playoffs in 2 out of his 3 appearances.

So no, I don't really think I'm downplaying him either. He addresses our need for someone who can get into the lane, but he isn't a good option as a volume scorer, never has been. And we'll be giving up at least one of the guys we'd need to be on the team to benefit from what he does.

Ja is a bad choice. He's the worst of the two choices, actually. I'd be far more upset if we traded for him than if we did for AD.

[WuTang_CMB]

Who knows. The East is weak.

I don't think we're beating New York or healthy Cleveland even if we manage the trades. And in subsequent seasons, if Milwaukee puts anything next to Giannis, or if Tatum comes back reasonably healthy... I don't really see it.

If you are upgrading the talent and get off IQ who you dont think is the best fit for your club, Bobby is 100% doing it.

THe question is, though, is any of that really an upgrade once you factor in the full details of what it would take to get them plus their issues of availability? You do need to be ON the court to impact the game, and that's been one of the major issues with both AD and Ja for a very long time... and one which isn't going to improve as they age.

If Ja / AD are healthy, yes that's an upgrade at both positions.

Playoff series' are funny. You need as many difference makers as possible. A healthy AD next to Barnes, BI, CMB would be a nightmare.