Ja/AD ≠ BI. Much riskier and worse value

[tsherkin]

If we trade for Ja, it's because he's Darkos boy and he has vouched for him. I'm fine rolling the dice on an upgrade and taking a bit of a risk.

Will be a sad time for Toronto if we do. It's a lot more than "a bit of a risk" with him.

[Clutch0z24]

While i agree building up the asset base would be a smart move....Its just you are asking such a hard task from Bobby/Scouts to do when you have expectations of the assets you are bringing in....

No, I'm just advocating for patience instead of short-sighted trades. We already have too much in the way of injury risk on the team that we can't handle losing. Adding more, especially someone as dim as Ja and what-not, it just isn't really worth it IMHO.

We are more so going to target the Ingram type deals where we buy low on distressed assets and hope it pans out for us.

To a point. You load up on too many of those guys, you're gonna have 36-win seasons anyway.

I get it i really do if it were up to me i would have played the draft one more year after getting CMB i would have pushed for a top 3 pick this draft and add a legit game changing talent via draft....

But Bobby and Rogers pushing for win now star players....So you have to ask what kind of "star" type players are going to be available anytime soon that have the ceiling potential of Morant/AD that you could get on the low for players like IQ/RJ/Yak (All 3 prolly not in the Raptors future plans) and 1 draft pick?

Lets say Jokic/Giannis are the guys switching teams next year....Having AD/Morant might make us more attractive of a destination for them to join us cause we have more talent....But even then you are not getting these type of players unless they have Toronto as their number 1 destination....Which i am not confident in that being the case...

Which stars if are you trading for at that low of a price?....Most stars would take multiple FRPs to aquire...

[PushDaRock]

2nd round fodder while we still have all our picks is not a bad situation to be in at all

We are not giving up the kind of draft capital you are thinking we are giving up....This is not a 4 FRP type move....Morant will be lucky to get 1 FRP it sounds like and for AD we are bidding against the Hawks....

Only reason we would even need to give up a FRP for Morant would be because IQ/Yaks contracts are so bad that no teams will touch them unless they are compensated for it...

Giving up 1 FRP in lets say 2027 if it has even top 7 protection or top 5 protection is worth it since that pick most likely ends up in the 20s anyways.

Who said I was thinking we would have to give up a lot?

[tsherkin]

I get it i really do if it were up to me i would have played the draft one more year after getting CMB i would have pushed for a top 3 pick this draft and add a legit game changing talent via draft....

That would have been ideal, but it also isn't where we are at, sadly.

But Bobby and Rogers pushing for win now star players....So you have to ask what kind of "star" type players are going to be available anytime soon that have the ceiling potential of Morant/AD that you could get on the low for players like IQ/RJ/Yak (All 3 prolly not in the Raptors future plans) and 1 draft pick?

Oh, there's a wide delta between what I expect to happen and what I want to happen.

Which stars if are you trading for at that low of a price?....Most stars would take multiple FRPs to aquire...

Right, but this assumes that I think we are going to get star players worth our time in a trade any time soon. I don't. I want us to build a little slower so that we don't paint ourselves into a corner through haste.

[Clutch0z24]

I get it i really do if it were up to me i would have played the draft one more year after getting CMB i would have pushed for a top 3 pick this draft and add a legit game changing talent via draft....

That would have been ideal, but it also isn't where we are at, sadly.

But Bobby and Rogers pushing for win now star players....So you have to ask what kind of "star" type players are going to be available anytime soon that have the ceiling potential of Morant/AD that you could get on the low for players like IQ/RJ/Yak (All 3 prolly not in the Raptors future plans) and 1 draft pick?

Oh, there's a wide delta between what I expect to happen and what I want to happen.

Which stars if are you trading for at that low of a price?....Most stars would take multiple FRPs to aquire...

Right, but this assumes that I think we are going to get star players worth our time in a trade any time soon. I don't. I want us to build a little slower so that we don't paint ourselves into a corner through haste.

Yeah want me to be honest? We kind of already painted ourselves into a corner with the IQ contract and now the Yak contract.....We are most likely unable to afford RJ long term now. IQ is not a starting level PG in the NBA hes a bench micro scorer at best, Yak is a good C but his back maybe cooked and you are capped with him as your starting C....

We are pretty much already in a corner and a pickle either way....So imo you might as well get off these contracts and rise the ceiling for next few years than hold onto guys who are just not good enough at the end of the day....

Unless you personally think IQ can actually turn into a Maxey level player, Yak can come back and dominate at the C position, And we go into the Tax to keep RJ .....If so than you have a reason to feel the way you do but i personally don't believe that to be the case....I think if we hold IQ/Yak their value just keeps going down more and more, RJ walks in free agency and we are in a worse situation than trading them now....

[PushDaRock]

Now we are seeing IQ + Yak + RJ + first round picks

This makes the trade absolutely nothing like the BI trade or the Trae trade. It's nothing like the Kawhi trade either.

You don't think that a IQ+Yak+1st for AD has, like, a ridiculous amount of similarity to our Kawhi trade?

Absolutely not. While Kawhi was also a serious risk (only played 9 games the season before and seemingly had an unwillingness to be anywhere but LA), he was still in his prime whereas AD's numbers have been trending down (lowest BLK% of his career, lowest PTS per36 since his 2nd season, 3rd lowest STL% of his career, etc.) and he's about to turn 33. This isn't the AD of the late 2010s that was still a top 10ish player and MVP candidate. We'd obviously still be getting a very good player with likely an all-star impact, but there is a big gap from a top 3-5 player (which Kawhi consistently was when he was healthy in the late 2010s) and a top 25ish player (which AD has been the past few seasons when healthy).

Any AD trade means we lose 2 starters as well. It's not like we have a bunch of young guys ready for bigger roles as we have seen with RJ out. AD at 33 is maybe going to be a top 20 ish guy at best? He's not single handedly taking us anywhere and you have to plan as if he will be a part-time player meaning you will need a lot of good depth to fill in for him for a lot of games. Any theoretical AD trade would require further tweaking the roster IMO. It's just not really likely at all to happen.

[tsherkin]

We are pretty much already in a corner and a pickle either way....So imo you might as well get off these contracts and rise the ceiling for next few years than hold onto guys who are just not good enough at the end of the day....

Unless you personally think IQ can actually turn into a Maxey level player, Yak can come back and dominate at the C position, And we go into the Tax to keep RJ .....If so than you have a reason to feel the way you do but i personally don't believe that to be the case....I think if we hold IQ/Yak their value just keeps going down more and more, RJ walks in free agency and we are in a worse situation than trading them now....

I mean, that's a false equivalency. We don't need IQ to turn into Maxey, nor is that adjacent to anything I"ve said, so that's irrelvant.

In the meantime, we can agree to disagree, since I think we've about exhausted the subject at this point.

[PushDaRock]

I get it i really do if it were up to me i would have played the draft one more year after getting CMB i would have pushed for a top 3 pick this draft and add a legit game changing talent via draft....

That would have been ideal, but it also isn't where we are at, sadly.

But Bobby and Rogers pushing for win now star players....So you have to ask what kind of "star" type players are going to be available anytime soon that have the ceiling potential of Morant/AD that you could get on the low for players like IQ/RJ/Yak (All 3 prolly not in the Raptors future plans) and 1 draft pick?

Oh, there's a wide delta between what I expect to happen and what I want to happen.

Which stars if are you trading for at that low of a price?....Most stars would take multiple FRPs to aquire...

Right, but this assumes that I think we are going to get star players worth our time in a trade any time soon. I don't. I want us to build a little slower so that we don't paint ourselves into a corner through haste.

Yeah want me to be honest? We kind of already painted ourselves into a corner with the IQ contract and now the Yak contract.....We are most likely unable to afford RJ long term now. IQ is not a starting level PG in the NBA hes a bench micro scorer at best, Yak is a good C but his back maybe cooked and you are capped with him as your starting C....

We are pretty much already in a corner and a pickle either way....So imo you might as well get off these contracts and rise the ceiling for next few years than hold onto guys who are just not good enough at the end of the day....

Unless you personally think IQ can actually turn into a Maxey level player, Yak can come back and dominate at the C position, And we go into the Tax to keep RJ .....If so than you have a reason to feel the way you do but i personally don't believe that to be the case....I think if we hold IQ/Yak their value just keeps going down more and more, RJ walks in free agency and we are in a worse situation than trading them now....

So, you think IQ and Jak are bad contracts but that their value goes down as we hold them longer and their contracts become shorter in length?

[Clutch0z24]

That would have been ideal, but it also isn't where we are at, sadly.



Oh, there's a wide delta between what I expect to happen and what I want to happen.



Right, but this assumes that I think we are going to get star players worth our time in a trade any time soon. I don't. I want us to build a little slower so that we don't paint ourselves into a corner through haste.

Yeah want me to be honest? We kind of already painted ourselves into a corner with the IQ contract and now the Yak contract.....We are most likely unable to afford RJ long term now. IQ is not a starting level PG in the NBA hes a bench micro scorer at best, Yak is a good C but his back maybe cooked and you are capped with him as your starting C....

We are pretty much already in a corner and a pickle either way....So imo you might as well get off these contracts and rise the ceiling for next few years than hold onto guys who are just not good enough at the end of the day....

Unless you personally think IQ can actually turn into a Maxey level player, Yak can come back and dominate at the C position, And we go into the Tax to keep RJ .....If so than you have a reason to feel the way you do but i personally don't believe that to be the case....I think if we hold IQ/Yak their value just keeps going down more and more, RJ walks in free agency and we are in a worse situation than trading them now....

So, you think IQ and Jak are bad contracts but that their value goes down as we hold them longer and their contracts become shorter in length?

I don't think their play on the court will warrant any major returns for us regardless....These are not players that have major potential....They are both at the ages that you get what you see....These are not even OG/Siakam level players here they are meh players on big contracts that are only getting older and many teams do not value or want....

Could we maybe hold these guys for many more years and trade them as expirings in 3-4 more years?....Sure but what is the return going to really be? I can tell you the chances you get a player on even Morant/ADs level are slim....And these guys are also not developing into all stars or anything so you are just holding them to trade them for less value than AD or Morant anyways? While maybe losing RJ in free agency in the process?

[Johnston]

If we trade for Ja, it's because he's Darkos boy and he has vouched for him. I'm fine rolling the dice on an upgrade and taking a bit of a risk.

Will be a sad time for Toronto if we do. It's a lot more than "a bit of a risk" with him.

Id feel better of it was just attitude and not injuries as well. But Darko has spent a lot more time with him than you or I have. Id trust his judgement. I don't see Bobby bring him in if Darko wasn't on board and if it's the wrong move, Darkos job would also likely be on the line.

[tsherkin]

Id feel better of it was just attitude and not injuries as well. But Darko has spent a lot more time with him than you or I have. Id trust his judgement.

I don't. *shrug*

[Clutch0z24]

I don't understand this fan base at all....Want to be a competitive team and against tanking or trying to add high end talent via high draft picks.....But when it comes to making an upgrade to make the team a more competitive team....All the players on the trade market "Suck or not good enough"...

Pick a lane lol......Reality is when you are playing the middle trying to compete AD/Morant/Sabonis are the type of players on the market more so than anything....You rarely get Giannis/Shai/Kawhi level players that become available.....And if they do chances we win the bidding war for that player also is slim as these players have way more power to control their destination than the Morant/AD/Sabonis types do....

Do you guys just want to play the middle forever? Draft more projects like Jakobe with late FRPs? And lose Barnes/Ingram in free agency when their contracts come up anyways because on their contracts here we were unable to win much so they become unhappy and want to move to better teams anyways?

You are either Tanking or you are making compete moves when they are available to you....Playing the middle without being proactive when a buy low option becomes available to you is doing you no favors.

[sidsid]

AD is a superstar, if old and broken, who is an actual difference maker. That is the actual need for any team looking to contend. BI is not. He does not fill any "need" in those terms outside of making a more coherent regular season team, but you could say that about IQ and his pull-up 3 gravity.

The cost for BI right now is looking very significant. If the lottery was held today, it would be a coin-toss on them handing us the 5th pick in this draft. There's only one player on our roster who could fetch that and his name isn't BI.

And the incentives for Indy now would lean towards them trying to tank even harder to keep the 1st position so that it isn't less than coin toss to lose it.

[TGM]

I don’t like the Ja or AD ideas, and I think comparing them to the BI move misses key differences.

1) BI fixed an obvious problem
The Raptors badly needed half-court scoring. BI directly addressed that.

What clear need do Ja or AD solve?

AD helps rim protection but doesn’t want to play center.

Ja adds rim pressure, but he can’t shoot, is bad defensively, injury-prone, and needs the ball constantly.

2) BI was a legit buy-low
Brown + Olynyk + protected 2026 FRP is reasonable value (Indiana likely never tanks without getting their pick back).

Ja or AD costs two of IQ/RJ/Jakob plus multiple FRPs. That’s not buy-low — that’s overpaying.

3) Fit and risk
BI fits Scottie and the roster. He scales.

Ja requires the offense to be built around him and brings durability and off-court risk.
AD forces awkward positional choices and accelerates the timeline without real contention upside. Plus he wants a big contract too

BI was a calculated swing. Ja or AD is a high-risk bet that doesn’t clearly solve the team’s core issues.

This is all hindsight talking. People hated the idea of BI and 90% people on this forum said the fit was poor, laid an egg over his contract and said he was injury prone and freaked that we gave up a first.

Ja and AD at their best are better talents than BI, so you are trading for more potential upside.

You are downplaying the offensive engine improvement Ja can bring or the defensive presence and interior scoring AD brings. You are focusing on what they can’t do as to what they can do.

There is a simple reason why people think these are bad deals. It’s because people are naturally risk averse. Just look at how player values can flip flop over a matter of months. Trae going for expiring. RJ for pop platter contract to no we shouldn’t trade RJ. Trade Scottie he is not a star. We’ve seen it all. Ja andAD’s trade value is low because of injuries and attitude as of late. If not they wouldn’t even be on the trade market. Their respective teams have taken a different direction on competing so that’s why you can get them below market value.

Imagine when Nets were trading for VC and they focused on he is more injury prone, doesn’t want to dunk anymore, low motor, isn’t a winner. Those were the attributes VC displayed in his final season with the Raps.

[TheRaptor!]

I don’t like the Ja or AD ideas, and I think comparing them to the BI move misses key differences.

1) BI fixed an obvious problem
The Raptors badly needed half-court scoring. BI directly addressed that.

What clear need do Ja or AD solve?

AD helps rim protection but doesn’t want to play center.

Ja adds rim pressure, but he can’t shoot, is bad defensively, injury-prone, and needs the ball constantly.

2) BI was a legit buy-low
Brown + Olynyk + protected 2026 FRP is reasonable value (Indiana likely never tanks without getting their pick back).

Ja or AD costs two of IQ/RJ/Jakob plus multiple FRPs. That’s not buy-low — that’s overpaying.

3) Fit and risk
BI fits Scottie and the roster. He scales.

Ja requires the offense to be built around him and brings durability and off-court risk.
AD forces awkward positional choices and accelerates the timeline without real contention upside. Plus he wants a big contract too

BI was a calculated swing. Ja or AD is a high-risk bet that doesn’t clearly solve the team’s core issues.

This is all hindsight talking. People hated the idea of BI and 90% people on this forum said the fit was poor, laid an egg over his contract and said he was injury prone and freaked that we gave up a first.

Ja and AD at their best are better talents than BI, so you are trading for more potential upside.

You are downplaying the offensive engine improvement Ja can bring or the defensive presence and interior scoring AD brings. You are focusing on what they can’t do as to what they can do.

There is a simple reason why people think these are bad deals. It’s because people are naturally risk averse. Just look at how player values can flip flop over a matter of months. Trae going for expiring. RJ for pop platter contract to no we shouldn’t trade RJ. Trade Scottie he is not a star. We’ve seen it all. Ja andAD’s trade value is low because of injuries and attitude as of late. If not they wouldn’t even be on the trade market. Their respective teams have taken a different direction on competing so that’s why you can get them below market value.

Imagine when Nets were trading for VC and they focused on he is more injury prone, doesn’t want to dunk anymore, low motor, isn’t a winner. Those were the attributes VC displayed in his final season with the Raps.

Its called buying a distressed asset

If it wsant distressed the asset wouldnt have even been for sale. Ja Morant was thier franchise player

[Tripod]

Too funny.

Sitting in 4th in Conference.

"I would have tanked for a top 3 pick"

[WuTang_CMB]

I don't understand this fan base at all....Want to be a competitive team and against tanking or trying to add high end talent via high draft picks.....But when it comes to making an upgrade to make the team a more competitive team....All the players on the trade market "Suck or not good enough"...

Pick a lane lol......Reality is when you are playing the middle trying to compete AD/Morant/Sabonis are the type of players on the market more so than anything....You rarely get Giannis/Shai/Kawhi level players that become available.....And if they do chances we win the bidding war for that player also is slim as these players have way more power to control their destination than the Morant/AD/Sabonis types do....

Do you guys just want to play the middle forever? Draft more projects like Jakobe with late FRPs? And lose Barnes/Ingram in free agency when their contracts come up anyways because on their contracts here we were unable to win much so they become unhappy and want to move to better teams anyways?

You are either Tanking or you are making compete moves when they are available to you....Playing the middle without being proactive when a buy low option becomes available to you is doing you no favors.

The number 1 goal when rebuilding / building from the middle / or whatever Bobby/Masai call their way of rebuilding a team - is accumulating as much talent as possible. Then the coach plays a massive part in making the guys play hard, structure, execution and keeping the vibes good. If we are buying cheap on former all-stars while also moving out players with tough contracts / not in love with them and most importantly upgrading the positions, you do it 100% outta time. I get all the risk but at the end of the day you are upgrading the talent on your club.

Bobby is trading for AD if the cost is IQ/JP and a pick so get ready for it. You have to be happy so far this season with a team led by BI / Scottie so you understand the thought process on why we are in these rumours.

[Clutch0z24]

Too funny.

Sitting in 4th in Conference.

"I would have tanked for a top 3 pick"

Its either you Tank or you make trades for players like AD/Morant when they are available for a buy low option....You can't laugh at one team building strategy but also on the other side of the coin say every player on the trade market that can help us be more competitive with a higher ceiling "Sucks and should not trade for"

Being 4th in this East means nothing....Come playoff time we can all agree this team is not making it very far without an upgrade....When that upgrade is on the market....That player "Sucks and is too big of a risk".....No duh its a risk because if they were not risks and playing to their full potential they would not be on the market at all considering how good these guys are if they are playing at their full potential...

You have to take the gamble at this point and hope they play to their full potential with us rather than staying stagnant and being okay with losing in the first round.

[PushDaRock]

Yeah want me to be honest? We kind of already painted ourselves into a corner with the IQ contract and now the Yak contract.....We are most likely unable to afford RJ long term now. IQ is not a starting level PG in the NBA hes a bench micro scorer at best, Yak is a good C but his back maybe cooked and you are capped with him as your starting C....

We are pretty much already in a corner and a pickle either way....So imo you might as well get off these contracts and rise the ceiling for next few years than hold onto guys who are just not good enough at the end of the day....

Unless you personally think IQ can actually turn into a Maxey level player, Yak can come back and dominate at the C position, And we go into the Tax to keep RJ .....If so than you have a reason to feel the way you do but i personally don't believe that to be the case....I think if we hold IQ/Yak their value just keeps going down more and more, RJ walks in free agency and we are in a worse situation than trading them now....

So, you think IQ and Jak are bad contracts but that their value goes down as we hold them longer and their contracts become shorter in length?

I don't think their play on the court will warrant any major returns for us regardless....These are not players that have major potential....They are both at the ages that you get what you see....These are not even OG/Siakam level players here they are meh players on big contracts that are only getting older and many teams do not value or want....

Could we maybe hold these guys for many more years and trade them as expirings in 3-4 more years?....Sure but what is the return going to really be? I can tell you the chances you get a player on even Morant/ADs level are slim....And these guys are also not developing into all stars or anything so you are just holding them to trade them for less value than AD or Morant anyways? While maybe losing RJ in free agency in the process?

You're still getting value from having these guys on your team because they're good players when healthy and helping this team win games. Just because they're not elite players doesn't make them disposable trash.

I don't know why you're pretending like you know exactly how the market will look in 3 years, because you really don't and nobody does.

[TGM]

I don’t like the Ja or AD ideas, and I think comparing them to the BI move misses key differences.

1) BI fixed an obvious problem
The Raptors badly needed half-court scoring. BI directly addressed that.

What clear need do Ja or AD solve?

AD helps rim protection but doesn’t want to play center.

Ja adds rim pressure, but he can’t shoot, is bad defensively, injury-prone, and needs the ball constantly.

2) BI was a legit buy-low
Brown + Olynyk + protected 2026 FRP is reasonable value (Indiana likely never tanks without getting their pick back).

Ja or AD costs two of IQ/RJ/Jakob plus multiple FRPs. That’s not buy-low — that’s overpaying.

3) Fit and risk
BI fits Scottie and the roster. He scales.

Ja requires the offense to be built around him and brings durability and off-court risk.
AD forces awkward positional choices and accelerates the timeline without real contention upside. Plus he wants a big contract too

BI was a calculated swing. Ja or AD is a high-risk bet that doesn’t clearly solve the team’s core issues.

This is all hindsight talking. People hated the idea of BI and 90% people on this forum said the fit was poor, laid an egg over his contract and said he was injury prone and freaked that we gave up a first.

Ja and AD at their best are better talents than BI, so you are trading for more potential upside.

You are downplaying the offensive engine improvement Ja can bring or the defensive presence and interior scoring AD brings. You are focusing on what they can’t do as to what they can do.

There is a simple reason why people think these are bad deals. It’s because people are naturally risk averse. Just look at how player values can flip flop over a matter of months. Trae going for expiring. RJ for pop platter contract to no we shouldn’t trade RJ. Trade Scottie he is not a star. We’ve seen it all. Ja andAD’s trade value is low because of injuries and attitude as of late. If not they wouldn’t even be on the trade market. Their respective teams have taken a different direction on competing so that’s why you can get them below market value.

Imagine when Nets were trading for VC and they focused on he is more injury prone, doesn’t want to dunk anymore, low motor, isn’t a winner. Those were the attributes VC displayed in his final season with the Raps.

Its called buying a distressed asset

If it wsant distressed the asset wouldnt have even been for sale. Ja Morant was thier franchise player

Exactly! And the great thing about buying distressed assets are when they are completely written off by their owners they are completely mispriced to the downside.