Ja/AD ≠ BI. Much riskier and worse value

[TheRaptor!]

Hot take: We actually don't need any more stars, Scottie & BI are enough on that front and will continue improving both as players and with their combined synergy.

What we actually need is direct upgrades at certain spots, especially on the bench and to get back to full strength. IQ may not be it but I am in zero rush to trade RJ or Poeltl.

Do you watch other basketball teams outside the Raptors?

Other teams got guys like Wemby/Castle/Fox, SGA/JDub/Chet, Jokic/Murray

and you say we're good with Scottie and BI?

LOL

[RoteSchroder]

Honestly, this thread is just a rerun of every every other time that we've looked to acquire a star who might be a distressed asset. The same people that are saying that AD and John Morant are riskier than bi are the same people that are saying that bi was riskier than Kawhi. Same thing with Durant all those years ago and he's still a top performer. Let's do something new people.

If only we traded all our picks for Durant like the Suns did. A second round exit, 1st round exit and the lotto sounds so good, I don’t even know why the Suns traded him away. They’re much worse off now.

[TGM]

Hot take: We actually don't need any more stars, Scottie & BI are enough on that front and will continue improving both as players and with their combined synergy.

What we actually need is direct upgrades at certain spots, especially on the bench and to get back to full strength. IQ may not be it but I am in zero rush to trade RJ or Poeltl.

Do you watch other basketball teams outside the Raptors?

Other teams got guys like Wemby/Castle/Fox, SGA/JDub/Chet, Jokic/Murray

and you say we're good with Scottie and BI?

LOL

There is a group that believes just keep staying in the middle of the league and get a late teens pick will take this team to the promise land. They will also never want to make a trade cause the player is either empty calories, injury prone, not a good defender and overpaid. When a superstar is available the price is too high and our consolidated average starters is an overpay to give up for trade.

[Clutch0z24]

Hot take: We actually don't need any more stars, Scottie & BI are enough on that front and will continue improving both as players and with their combined synergy.

What we actually need is direct upgrades at certain spots, especially on the bench and to get back to full strength. IQ may not be it but I am in zero rush to trade RJ or Poeltl.

Do you watch other basketball teams outside the Raptors?

Other teams got guys like Wemby/Castle/Fox, SGA/JDub/Chet, Jokic/Murray

and you say we're good with Scottie and BI?

LOL

There is a group that believes just keep staying in the middle of the league and get a late teens pick will take this team to the promise land. They will also never want to make a trade cause the player is either empty calories, injury prone, not a good defender and overpaid. When a superstar is available the price is too high and our consolidated average starters is an overpay to give up for trade.

Agreed its oddly strange....There are literally only 2 ways of breaking out of team mid in the NBA....High talented draft picks (Tanking or making a smart trade where you get a bad teams pick like the Hawks did) where you can potentially get a legit franchise player, Or you make trades for upgrades when they come on the markert....Top 5 players being traded for with the little positive players we have would be hard to get unless you are trading Barnes/CMB/Picks....Then what are you really left with? Also its hard to get these kind of players because 90 percent of the time they have a say where they end up.

AD/Morant types are what you are left with....All star guys who have potential to be better in the right situations....

You can not improve your team drafting in the 20s and losing in the first round of the playoffs...At best you are adding more Jakobe Walter level players to the team....What will that really do for you at all? And yeah these posters that think like this must think Barnes/BI/Barrett/IQ is enough to make a title run or something because theres no other reason.

[HiJiNX]

Someone remind me of the draft positions for Steph, Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi again?

[Clutch0z24]

Someone remind me of the draft positions for Steph, Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi again?

You can't just be that selective and pick a few names that slipped through the cracks and ignore data when it comes to the NBA draft....Curry being picked 7th btw...Warriors had a 29-53 record the year they got Curry....They were still a bad rebuilding/tanking team.....Picking 7th can net you very good talents in the draft.....

When it comes to the 20s where we most likely will be picking....



It becomes very hard and the chances of you actually getting a game changing player are exactly what you listed prolly a 3 out of 60 odds you land a game changing player in that area of the draft...Even then kawhi went 15th , Also Giannis went 15th....Both just outside the lottery...

Pacers finished 37-45 to be 15th
Bucks 38-44 to be 15th

in the history of the NBA you can't name that many legit franchise star type players that fall where we will be picking in the draft....Not even Kawhi/Giannis fell in the 20s so you can't count them...

Jokic
Butler
Lowry
Ginobili
Tony Parker
Marc Gasol
Pascal Siakam
Draymond Green

Are the only players off the top of my head that were picked in the 20s or beyond that had very good careers thats 8 players out of thousands that have been picked in the 20s/2nd round that have been busts, out of the league, or just meh role players....Raptor fans became delusional with the draft after we went on a historical draft run getting Siakam/OG/FVV/Powell when that is so far not likely to be duplicated again.

To say your gameplan and strat is to try and draft a Kawhi/Jokic/Giannis in the 20s....Thats not a sound strat to have and any GM trying to be a middling team to hope to draft a game changer in the 20s should be fired....

Buy Low for flawed stars to build up your talent base (Ingram/AD/Morant Types) when you are playing the middle, Tanking for high draft picks are percentage wise the best ways to build teams....If you try to play the middle and make no risky trades to try and upgrade you will just stay in the middle most likely.....Not good enough to win, Not bad enough to get good draft picks = the worst position to be in....Ik many posters here will hate it but tanking historically has a better chance to build a winning team than middling/trades do....But Bobby/Raptors chose this direction so anyone that would be upset at him making a trade for AD/Morants of the world need to realize thats the path Bobby chose when he traded for Ingram so embrace it.

At some point the fan base needs to realize that Giannis type players when playing the middle like we are and have been are most likely not going to come and save you in a trade.....When playing the middle you are trying to trade for buylow stars like AD/Morant/Sabonis/Ingram types since its more realistic to aquire them....Or try and snipe a young player by giving up more assets like a Trey Murphy and hope they become franchise players in the future....

Can't just stay stagnant tough or you are going no where.

[TorontoBarneys]

You're not getting a Wemby outside the draft lil bros. I know critical thought is hard for some of you genuinely but that ship already sailed for this core. Enjoy what you have.

[ConSarnit]

I don’t like the Ja or AD ideas, and I think comparing them to the BI move misses key differences.

1) BI fixed an obvious problem
The Raptors badly needed half-court scoring. BI directly addressed that.

What clear need do Ja or AD solve?

AD helps rim protection but doesn’t want to play center.

Ja adds rim pressure, but he can’t shoot, is bad defensively, injury-prone, and needs the ball constantly.

2) BI was a legit buy-low
Brown + Olynyk + protected 2026 FRP is reasonable value (Indiana likely never tanks without getting their pick back).

Ja or AD costs two of IQ/RJ/Jakob plus multiple FRPs. That’s not buy-low — that’s overpaying.

3) Fit and risk
BI fits Scottie and the roster. He scales.

Ja requires the offense to be built around him and brings durability and off-court risk.
AD forces awkward positional choices and accelerates the timeline without real contention upside. Plus he wants a big contract too

BI was a calculated swing. Ja or AD is a high-risk bet that doesn’t clearly solve the team’s core issues.

This is all hindsight talking. People hated the idea of BI and 90% people on this forum said the fit was poor, laid an egg over his contract and said he was injury prone and freaked that we gave up a first.

Ja and AD at their best are better talents than BI, so you are trading for more potential upside.

You are downplaying the offensive engine improvement Ja can bring or the defensive presence and interior scoring AD brings. You are focusing on what they can’t do as to what they can do.

There is a simple reason why people think these are bad deals. It’s because people are naturally risk averse. Just look at how player values can flip flop over a matter of months. Trae going for expiring. RJ for pop platter contract to no we shouldn’t trade RJ. Trade Scottie he is not a star. We’ve seen it all. Ja andAD’s trade value is low because of injuries and attitude as of late. If not they wouldn’t even be on the trade market. Their respective teams have taken a different direction on competing so that’s why you can get them below market value.

Imagine when Nets were trading for VC and they focused on he is more injury prone, doesn’t want to dunk anymore, low motor, isn’t a winner. Those were the attributes VC displayed in his final season with the Raps.

This is revisionist history. Show me the posters who thought the BI fit was bad. The BI trade was initially disliked because:

-there was some assumption he might play last year and hurt the tank

-we were making a win now move before we had acquired a legit #1/2 during our rebuild years (some wanted to continue to rebuild)

You want to trade for someone like Ja but ignore massive fit issues. It's not just about talent in a vacuum. Ingram (and AD) can fit on any team. You want to add Ja to a team that already lacks shooting. He's certainly not a defensive upgrade over what we currently have at PG. Ja/Barnes/Poeltl are not a good fit. Trading for Kawhi or BI did not carry the risk of them catching a gun charge.

[anotherhomer]

I don’t like the Ja or AD ideas, and I think comparing them to the BI move misses key differences.

1) BI fixed an obvious problem
The Raptors badly needed half-court scoring. BI directly addressed that.

What clear need do Ja or AD solve?

AD helps rim protection but doesn’t want to play center.

Ja adds rim pressure, but he can’t shoot, is bad defensively, injury-prone, and needs the ball constantly.

2) BI was a legit buy-low
Brown + Olynyk + protected 2026 FRP is reasonable value (Indiana likely never tanks without getting their pick back).

Ja or AD costs two of IQ/RJ/Jakob plus multiple FRPs. That’s not buy-low — that’s overpaying.

3) Fit and risk
BI fits Scottie and the roster. He scales.

Ja requires the offense to be built around him and brings durability and off-court risk.
AD forces awkward positional choices and accelerates the timeline without real contention upside. Plus he wants a big contract too

BI was a calculated swing. Ja or AD is a high-risk bet that doesn’t clearly solve the team’s core issues.

This is all hindsight talking. People hated the idea of BI and 90% people on this forum said the fit was poor, laid an egg over his contract and said he was injury prone and freaked that we gave up a first.

Ja and AD at their best are better talents than BI, so you are trading for more potential upside.

You are downplaying the offensive engine improvement Ja can bring or the defensive presence and interior scoring AD brings. You are focusing on what they can’t do as to what they can do.

There is a simple reason why people think these are bad deals. It’s because people are naturally risk averse. Just look at how player values can flip flop over a matter of months. Trae going for expiring. RJ for pop platter contract to no we shouldn’t trade RJ. Trade Scottie he is not a star. We’ve seen it all. Ja andAD’s trade value is low because of injuries and attitude as of late. If not they wouldn’t even be on the trade market. Their respective teams have taken a different direction on competing so that’s why you can get them below market value.

Imagine when Nets were trading for VC and they focused on he is more injury prone, doesn’t want to dunk anymore, low motor, isn’t a winner. Those were the attributes VC displayed in his final season with the Raps.

This is revisionist history. Show me the posters who thought the BI fit was bad. The BI trade was initially disliked because:

-there was some assumption he might play last year and hurt the tank

-we were making a win now move before we had acquired a legit #1/2 during our rebuild years (some wanted to continue to rebuild)

You want to trade for someone like Ja but ignore massive fit issues. It's not just about talent in a vacuum. Ingram (and AD) can fit on any team. You want to add Ja to a team that already lacks shooting. He's certainly not a defensive upgrade over what we currently have at PG. Ja/Barnes/Poeltl are not a good fit. Trading for Kawhi or BI did not carry the risk of them catching a gun charge.

Exactly, BI and also Kawhi were situations where there was a clear need

I think this push for JA or AD maybe coming from Pelley or Ed Rogers

[canada_dry]

Someone remind me of the draft positions for Steph, Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi again?

Lets add booker. Donavan mitchell. Bam adebayo etc etc... that middle of the draft... there's always guys to have.

[ConSarnit]

Someone remind me of the draft positions for Steph, Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi again?

What's the argument here exactly?

Steph: 7th
Kawhi: 15th
Giannis: 15th

We currently stand to draft 19th. If you argument is "we can find guys later in the draft" we are currently not in a position to do so. If we keep churning out 45 wins seasons we are not going going to be in a position to find the Steph's, Kawhi's or Giannis' of the world.

There is nothing wrong with winning 45 games but it doesn't put you in position to draft most of the the guys you've listed.

[ConSarnit]

Someone remind me of the draft positions for Steph, Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi again?

Lets add booker. Donavan mitchell. Bam adebayo etc etc... that middle of the draft... there's always guys to have.

Booker: 13th
Mitchell: 13th
Bam: 14th

How do you suggest we draft 13th when we are currently slotted to draft 19th?

To find the type of players you are suggesting you still have to be a play-in team (or worse). We're too good for that draft range.

When we were slated to have picks in that range over the past few years we either A) gave it away for a role player (Poeltl) or B) drafted Dick.

If these late-lotto picks are so valuable why are we giving them away for an average Center?

[Clutch0z24]

Someone remind me of the draft positions for Steph, Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi again?

Lets add booker. Donavan mitchell. Bam adebayo etc etc... that middle of the draft... there's always guys to have.

Didn't know we are drafting 13th, 14th, in the NBA Draft this year....News to me....Last time i checked and most likely we are in the 20s...

[pilkoids]

Ja's having a game; 20/11 asts with three 3s made with 9 mins left in the third quarter

[Tor_Raps]

Ja's having a game; 20/11 asts with three 3s made with 9 mins left in the third quarter

Just posted the same in the other Ja thread. Dudes talent is immense... if the medical staff think they can work with him then you go get the man before his value goes up.

[Clutch0z24]

Ja's having a game; 20/11 asts with three 3s made with 9 mins left in the third quarter

Just posted the same in the other Ja thread. Dudes talent is immense... if the medical staff think they can work with him then you go get the man before his value goes up.

Do people actually think Ja has been playing his best basketball as of late? He has been injured which happens and also unmotived and detatched from his teammates/coaches.....If he can stay healthy Morant is a star player in the NBA....Anyone trying to say IQ is close to Morant is crazy....If you put Morant in a better situation, Stable culture where he is focused and motivated plus can be himself he would be back to what he was...You don't just forget how to play basketball...

[LascelleL]

The only high risk project im willing to take a flyer on is Lamelo Ball and not if it costs me RJ...and even then I dont want him. Hell is Jrue Holiday available?

We need Perimeter defense, Rim protection, size and the 3 Ball, preferably in one person.

[Clutch0z24]

The only high risk project im willing to take a flyer on is Lamelo Ball and not if it costs me RJ...and even then I dont want him. Hell is Jrue Holiday available?

We need Perimeter defense, Rim protection, size and the 3 Ball, preferably in one person.

I think we have enough Defense....We are a top rated defensive team but not the best offensive team....We would benefit greatly adding another scorer to take the pressure off Ingram in the half court.

Ball is also not available....He is not even in trade talks and we have nothing besides CMB the Hornets would want for him.

[load management]

Would Morant accept Scottie in a leadership role? And can we get a SG in the trade that can shoot?

Otherwise is a no from me.

[Clutch0z24]

Would Morant accept Scottie in a leadership role? And can we get a SG in the trade that can shoot?

Otherwise is a no from me.

If you are watching this game right now Morant has 13 dimes and been a floor general for them all game long.....I don't think Barnes is the type to also be alpha and demand it be his team or else....He just wants to win games and is a team player.

Morant is not some ball hog he is a really good passer.....Barnes/Ingram would also be the most talented players hes ever played with....