Moderators: GONYK, j4remi, NoLayupRule, Deeeez Knicks, Jeff Van Gully, mpharris36, dakomish23, HerSports85
Guano wrote:Fourni3r forgetting he has Bob cousy handles
Woodsanity wrote:Imagine trusting a team with World B Flat on it without Lebron keeping him in check.
WaltFrazier wrote:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was traded from the Milwaukee Bucks to the Los Angeles Lakers on June 16, 1975, in a blockbuster deal for Brian Winters, Elmore Smith, Dave Meyers, Junior Bridgeman, and cash.
I don't think the Knicks had as good pieces to trade as those 4 young players. Of course, Kareem went on to play longer than any of them.
It's a great what if. Another one at the same time, the merger with the ABA happened. The Nets as one of the new teams had to pay an indemnity to the Knicks for infringing on their territory. Roy Boe the Nets owner couldn't afford to keep Dr J and join the NBA too. He asked the Knicks to to the Doctor in lieu of the indemnity payment. Knicks refused so he sold Erving to the Sixers instead. Could have had Clyde, Pearl, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Dr J on the same team. A superteam even if the fit wasn't perfect
WaltFrazier wrote: Another one at the same time, the merger with the ABA happened. The Nets as one of the new teams had to pay an indemnity to the Knicks for infringing on their territory. Roy Boe the Nets owner couldn't afford to keep Dr J and join the NBA too. He asked the Knicks to to the Doctor in lieu of the indemnity payment. Knicks refused so he sold Erving to the Sixers instead. Could have had Clyde, Pearl, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Dr J on the same team. A superteam even if the fit wasn't perfect
WaltFrazier wrote:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was traded from the Milwaukee Bucks to the Los Angeles Lakers on June 16, 1975, in a blockbuster deal for Brian Winters, Elmore Smith, Dave Meyers, Junior Bridgeman, and cash.
I don't think the Knicks had as good pieces to trade as those 4 young players. Of course, Kareem went on to play longer than any of them.
It's a great what if. Another one at the same time, the merger with the ABA happened. The Nets as one of the new teams had to pay an indemnity to the Knicks for infringing on their territory. Roy Boe the Nets owner couldn't afford to keep Dr J and join the NBA too. He asked the Knicks to to the Doctor in lieu of the indemnity payment. Knicks refused so he sold Erving to the Sixers instead. Could have had Clyde, Pearl, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Dr J on the same team. A superteam even if the fit wasn't perfect
thebuzzardman wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was traded from the Milwaukee Bucks to the Los Angeles Lakers on June 16, 1975, in a blockbuster deal for Brian Winters, Elmore Smith, Dave Meyers, Junior Bridgeman, and cash.
I don't think the Knicks had as good pieces to trade as those 4 young players. Of course, Kareem went on to play longer than any of them.
It's a great what if. Another one at the same time, the merger with the ABA happened. The Nets as one of the new teams had to pay an indemnity to the Knicks for infringing on their territory. Roy Boe the Nets owner couldn't afford to keep Dr J and join the NBA too. He asked the Knicks to to the Doctor in lieu of the indemnity payment. Knicks refused so he sold Erving to the Sixers instead. Could have had Clyde, Pearl, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Dr J on the same team. A superteam even if the fit wasn't perfect
Winters and Bridgeman were good. Elmore James was a jag center. Dave Meyers? Who?
Knicks should have traded Clyde, Bibby, Bill Bradley and some picks for Jabbar.
thebuzzardman wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was traded from the Milwaukee Bucks to the Los Angeles Lakers on June 16, 1975, in a blockbuster deal for Brian Winters, Elmore Smith, Dave Meyers, Junior Bridgeman, and cash.
I don't think the Knicks had as good pieces to trade as those 4 young players. Of course, Kareem went on to play longer than any of them.
It's a great what if. Another one at the same time, the merger with the ABA happened. The Nets as one of the new teams had to pay an indemnity to the Knicks for infringing on their territory. Roy Boe the Nets owner couldn't afford to keep Dr J and join the NBA too. He asked the Knicks to to the Doctor in lieu of the indemnity payment. Knicks refused so he sold Erving to the Sixers instead. Could have had Clyde, Pearl, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Dr J on the same team. A superteam even if the fit wasn't perfect
Winters and Bridgeman were good. Elmore James was a jag center. Dave Meyers? Who?
Knicks should have traded Clyde, Bibby, Bill Bradley and some picks for Jabbar.
To be clear, I had to query Wingo and Shammgod for this information.
thebuzzardman wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was traded from the Milwaukee Bucks to the Los Angeles Lakers on June 16, 1975, in a blockbuster deal for Brian Winters, Elmore Smith, Dave Meyers, Junior Bridgeman, and cash.
I don't think the Knicks had as good pieces to trade as those 4 young players. Of course, Kareem went on to play longer than any of them.
It's a great what if. Another one at the same time, the merger with the ABA happened. The Nets as one of the new teams had to pay an indemnity to the Knicks for infringing on their territory. Roy Boe the Nets owner couldn't afford to keep Dr J and join the NBA too. He asked the Knicks to to the Doctor in lieu of the indemnity payment. Knicks refused so he sold Erving to the Sixers instead. Could have had Clyde, Pearl, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Dr J on the same team. A superteam even if the fit wasn't perfect
Didn't Haywood cocaine himself out of the league a few years later?
Would have been great while it lasted.
I would have sent Clyde out in the Kareem trade. They moved him two years later anyway and his career fell off a cliff. If I had the time machine.
thebuzzardman wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was traded from the Milwaukee Bucks to the Los Angeles Lakers on June 16, 1975, in a blockbuster deal for Brian Winters, Elmore Smith, Dave Meyers, Junior Bridgeman, and cash.
I don't think the Knicks had as good pieces to trade as those 4 young players. Of course, Kareem went on to play longer than any of them.
It's a great what if. Another one at the same time, the merger with the ABA happened. The Nets as one of the new teams had to pay an indemnity to the Knicks for infringing on their territory. Roy Boe the Nets owner couldn't afford to keep Dr J and join the NBA too. He asked the Knicks to to the Doctor in lieu of the indemnity payment. Knicks refused so he sold Erving to the Sixers instead. Could have had Clyde, Pearl, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Dr J on the same team. A superteam even if the fit wasn't perfect
Winters and Bridgeman were good. Elmore James was a jag center. Dave Meyers? Who?
.
Dave Meyers stands as a relative unknown to modern NBA fans. Despite starring on John Wooden's final championship-winning team at UCLA and being selected No. 2 overall in the 1975 NBA Draft, Meyers' unique & abridged close to professional career tucked his notoriety neatly under the rug of late 70's anonymity.
In Meyers' third year as a pro, he averaged 14.7 points, 6.7 rebounds, and 3 assists for a Milwaukee Bucks team on the verge of becoming a serious contender. Showcasing all-star potential, the 6-foot-8 power forward sustained a back injury that forced him to miss all of the 1978-79 season, leading to the beginning of the end.
When Bucks management pressured Meyers' to undergo a surgical procedure in hopes of correcting his back ailment, Meyers refused, in part because the procedure when against his Jehovah's Witness religion.
Ultimately, even after a successful return to NBA action in 1980, Meyers stepped away from the game at just 26 years old. With a goal of spending more time with his family, Meyers soon settled into a 30 year career as an elementary school teacher, passing away in 2015 following a long bout with cancer.
WaltFrazier wrote:
I saw him play for UCLA, very good player. His younger sister Ann Meyers was one of the first great women players. Too soon for the WNBA. In the mid 80s she was working for Brooks the shoe company, came to do a clinic at a summer camp I was working at in Ontario. After she was done I made a point to talk to her, walking from one gym to another. Said I'd watched her brother play in the 1975 NCAA semi vs Louisville (who had Junior Bridgeman), one of the best college games ever. She did a little double take, smiled like oh you remember that. I asked what happened to his NBA career, she said he changed his religion ( from Catholic to JW) and quit playing.
She went on to marry much older Dodgers Hall of Famer Don Drysdale, and was an executive of the Phoenix Mercury, still announces games I think. But for a five minute walk I pretended I was on a date with a cute blond California celebrity, my age, who I'd read about in Sports illustrated .
gavran wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:
Winters and Bridgeman were good. Elmore James was a jag center. Dave Meyers? Who?
Knicks should have traded Clyde, Bibby, Bill Bradley and some picks for Jabbar.
To be clear, I had to query Wingo and Shammgod for this information.
Not a single original thougth in your head, go figure.
Luv those Knicks wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:
I saw him play for UCLA, very good player. His younger sister Ann Meyers was one of the first great women players. Too soon for the WNBA. In the mid 80s she was working for Brooks the shoe company, came to do a clinic at a summer camp I was working at in Ontario. After she was done I made a point to talk to her, walking from one gym to another. Said I'd watched her brother play in the 1975 NCAA semi vs Louisville (who had Junior Bridgeman), one of the best college games ever. She did a little double take, smiled like oh you remember that. I asked what happened to his NBA career, she said he changed his religion ( from Catholic to JW) and quit playing.
She went on to marry much older Dodgers Hall of Famer Don Drysdale, and was an executive of the Phoenix Mercury, still announces games I think. But for a five minute walk I pretended I was on a date with a cute blond California celebrity, my age, who I'd read about in Sports illustrated .
Ann Meyers was invited to work out with the Pacers. She wasn't drafted, but she signed a contract and was invited to try out for the team. Obviously, she didn't make it, but I think she's the only lady to receive an invite to try out for and to receive a player contract from an NBA team.
I had no idea about her brother being that good.
Luv those Knicks wrote:. . .
Getting back to the subject at hand. I remember the Knicks in the 75-76 and subsequent seasons. They struggled.
Frazier was good but getting older.
Monroe was fine, but more of a support player. He always was just that in NY
Spencer Haywood was . . . as described above, doing too much coke. Still good, but not the star he once was
Bill Bradley, an unathletic, undersized small forward was their 4th best player
and John Gianelli was their center.
They didn't have the parts to trade for Kareem as most of their good players were over 30 and not that good anymore. I don't think they were ever really in the hunt. They'd also traded a first round pick for Haywood, which, presumably, they'd have needed to get Kareem.
A year and a few months into the season later, they traded for McAdoo, basically picked him up for cash, which is wild. They traded Mac a couple years later and got a first-round pick in exchange. Bill Cartwright was selected.
I digress, but the Knicks were pretty bad 75-76 onwards.
They drafted OK, but never put it together.
Lonnie Shelton was a good pick in 76. They traded him for Marvin Webster, who was basically finished. Shelton's sonics made it to the finals back-to-back seasons. Webster was a bench player a year later.
Ray Williams was a solid pick in 77
and Michael Ray Richardson in 78 could have been a star, if he hadn't done more drugs than the entire city of Cleveland during his time in the NBA.
Cartwright, drafted in 79 was also good, but they never had enough talent overall.
As for the Lakers
The year before they traded for Kareem, they won 30 games. After trading for him, they won 40, so it doesn't look like he could carry a team. The Lakers didn't make it to the finals until they added Magic Johnson. Nothing against Kareem, who was a great player, but it looks like he couldn't win by himself. If the Knicks had him, I don't think they'd have won it all unless they found good players to play around him, and I don't have faith that they'd have done that.
It's still an interesting bit of history though. I didn't remember this.
I do remember the Knicks being rumored to be interested in Dr. J and George McGinnes. Both ended up in Philly, which sucked. They tried by adding a few stars. They added Haywood, McAdoo, Webster (mentioned above), but never got interesting. The only pretty good season they had in the next few years was when they swapped Michael Ray for Bernard King. King gave them two good playoff runs.
WaltFrazier wrote:
I believe the Knicks tried to sign McGinnis as he was coming out of the ABA, may have had him sign a contract. But Sixers had his NBA rights so the commissioner O'Brien slapped a fine on the Knicks and big George went to Philly, a year before Dr J got there.
The Knicks decline began after the 74 season when their three best big men Willis Reed, Jerry Lucas and Dave Debusschere all retired at the same time, and as you said all they had left was C John Gianelli.
When Kareem got to LA they had no power forwards, he had to play with two small forwards Cazzie Russell and Jamal Wilkes. Kermit Washington developed into a good PF and they went to the WCF before losing to Portland in 77 after Kermit tore his knee up. The next year Kermit got in the famous fight with Rudy T and never played for the Lakers again. In 79-80 when Magic arrived, they also added 6'11 Jim Chinese and Spencer Haywood so now they had lots of size to help Kareem on the boards. Spencer coked out in that year 's Finals but they still had enough to win. Through the 80s they added McAdoo, Mitch Kupchak and later Mychal Thompson at different times so Kareem always had power forward support.
WaltFrazier wrote:Luv those Knicks wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:
I saw him play for UCLA, very good player. His younger sister Ann Meyers was one of the first great women players. Too soon for the WNBA. In the mid 80s she was working for Brooks the shoe company, came to do a clinic at a summer camp I was working at in Ontario. After she was done I made a point to talk to her, walking from one gym to another. Said I'd watched her brother play in the 1975 NCAA semi vs Louisville (who had Junior Bridgeman), one of the best college games ever. She did a little double take, smiled like oh you remember that. I asked what happened to his NBA career, she said he changed his religion ( from Catholic to JW) and quit playing.
She went on to marry much older Dodgers Hall of Famer Don Drysdale, and was an executive of the Phoenix Mercury, still announces games I think. But for a five minute walk I pretended I was on a date with a cute blond California celebrity, my age, who I'd read about in Sports illustrated .
Ann Meyers was invited to work out with the Pacers. She wasn't drafted, but she signed a contract and was invited to try out for the team. Obviously, she didn't make it, but I think she's the only lady to receive an invite to try out for and to receive a player contract from an NBA team.
I had no idea about her brother being that good.
Yeah I recall the hype around her Pacers tryout. Just did more googling, she was paid $50,000 for the training camp, then the same to play for the New Jersey Gems of the new WBL in 1979. That league lasted 3 seasons, Ann Meyer was co MVP one year. She was just 5'9
WaltFrazier wrote:Luv those Knicks wrote:. . .
Getting back to the subject at hand. I remember the Knicks in the 75-76 and subsequent seasons. They struggled.
Frazier was good but getting older.
Monroe was fine, but more of a support player. He always was just that in NY
Spencer Haywood was . . . as described above, doing too much coke. Still good, but not the star he once was
Bill Bradley, an unathletic, undersized small forward was their 4th best player
and John Gianelli was their center.
They didn't have the parts to trade for Kareem as most of their good players were over 30 and not that good anymore. I don't think they were ever really in the hunt. They'd also traded a first round pick for Haywood, which, presumably, they'd have needed to get Kareem.
A year and a few months into the season later, they traded for McAdoo, basically picked him up for cash, which is wild. They traded Mac a couple years later and got a first-round pick in exchange. Bill Cartwright was selected.
I digress, but the Knicks were pretty bad 75-76 onwards.
They drafted OK, but never put it together.
Lonnie Shelton was a good pick in 76. They traded him for Marvin Webster, who was basically finished. Shelton's sonics made it to the finals back-to-back seasons. Webster was a bench player a year later.
Ray Williams was a solid pick in 77
and Michael Ray Richardson in 78 could have been a star, if he hadn't done more drugs than the entire city of Cleveland during his time in the NBA.
Cartwright, drafted in 79 was also good, but they never had enough talent overall.
As for the Lakers
The year before they traded for Kareem, they won 30 games. After trading for him, they won 40, so it doesn't look like he could carry a team. The Lakers didn't make it to the finals until they added Magic Johnson. Nothing against Kareem, who was a great player, but it looks like he couldn't win by himself. If the Knicks had him, I don't think they'd have won it all unless they found good players to play around him, and I don't have faith that they'd have done that.
It's still an interesting bit of history though. I didn't remember this.
I do remember the Knicks being rumored to be interested in Dr. J and George McGinnes. Both ended up in Philly, which sucked. They tried by adding a few stars. They added Haywood, McAdoo, Webster (mentioned above), but never got interesting. The only pretty good season they had in the next few years was when they swapped Michael Ray for Bernard King. King gave them two good playoff runs.
I believe the Knicks tried to sign McGinnis as he was coming out of the ABA, may have had him sign a contract. But Sixers had his NBA rights so the commissioner O'Brien slapped a fine on the Knicks and big George went to Philly, a year before Dr J got there.
The Knicks decline began after the 74 season when their three best big men Willis Reed, Jerry Lucas and Dave Debusschere all retired at the same time, and as you said all they had left was C John Gianelli.
When Kareem got to LA they had no power forwards, he had to play with two small forwards Cazzie Russell and Jamal Wilkes. Kermit Washington developed into a good PF and they went to the WCF before losing to Portland in 77 after Kermit tore his knee up. The next year Kermit got in the famous fight with Rudy T and never played for the Lakers again. In 79-80 when Magic arrived, they also added 6'11 Jim Chinese and Spencer Haywood so now they had lots of size to help Kareem on the boards. Spencer coked out in that year 's Finals but they still had enough to win. Through the 80s they added McAdoo, Mitch Kupchak and later Mychal Thompson at different times so Kareem always had power forward support.