Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10

[Vampirate]

Not Scottie's greatest game. Bit rough in the first half, but played his usual diverse game. Crap in the 3rd, crap in the 4th, then woke up in the OT, but it was too late. We had an epic drought in the 4th and that slaughtered us.

Couple of nice drives and post-ups there from Scottie, though, which were nice to see.

Barnes 3 point shot looks like it just dissapeared this month, just 1 hit 3 point shot puts him scoring 27 points on 21 shots which looks much different than 24 pts on 21 shots.

Barnes is indeed going back to hsi mean, but his mean isn't shooting 10.5% from 3, that is what Amen might average a month and as poor of a 3 point shooter barnes is, he's not Amen Thompson levels bad. So I do think he'll have some good games soon from 3 to rebalance his ice cold streak he's cirrently at (not saying he's going to shoot 35+% this entire month, but certainly not 105% where he's currently at either).

On the plus end his FTR has been getting to his career averages as well, and since prior to this year his FTr has been steadilly climbing up, it's not unreasonable for him to get it to slightly above .300 (last year his down year his FTr was at .284 for reference)

In totality he's getting to the SB were all envisioning, get to the line at a slightly below All Star rate and eat at the midrange, hoping his 3 point shot is respectable enough.

the biggest difference between Barnes and Cade is Cade gets to the FT line at a an elite rate. 'This' version of cade i'd easily take over Paolo considering while Cade isn't the best finisher, he easily makes up for that with elite mid range shooting, kudos to him.

Seems to have lost all confidence in his shot again. Disappointing but not too unexpected.

Scottie doesn't get too many calls because he's often not beating his man clean and jumps into defenders hoping to get calls. It's just hard to get those when he so often looks off balance on his attempts at the rim.

looking at his numbers his FT rate year by year

Year 1: .231
Year 2: .242
Year 3: .266
Year 4: .284
This year: .265

I would say he's regressing to the mean negatively on his 3 point shooting (but a better shooter overall looking past 3 point shooting) and regressing to the mean positively in Free Throw rate (I think he was below .240 earlier).

The easiest way to put it is shot creation is his weakness (getting to his spots) but shot making is his strong suit (actually converting on his shots when he does get to his spots)

My opnion of course.

[PushDaRock]

Barnes 3 point shot looks like it just dissapeared this month, just 1 hit 3 point shot puts him scoring 27 points on 21 shots which looks much different than 24 pts on 21 shots.

Barnes is indeed going back to hsi mean, but his mean isn't shooting 10.5% from 3, that is what Amen might average a month and as poor of a 3 point shooter barnes is, he's not Amen Thompson levels bad. So I do think he'll have some good games soon from 3 to rebalance his ice cold streak he's cirrently at (not saying he's going to shoot 35+% this entire month, but certainly not 105% where he's currently at either).

On the plus end his FTR has been getting to his career averages as well, and since prior to this year his FTr has been steadilly climbing up, it's not unreasonable for him to get it to slightly above .300 (last year his down year his FTr was at .284 for reference)

In totality he's getting to the SB were all envisioning, get to the line at a slightly below All Star rate and eat at the midrange, hoping his 3 point shot is respectable enough.

the biggest difference between Barnes and Cade is Cade gets to the FT line at a an elite rate. 'This' version of cade i'd easily take over Paolo considering while Cade isn't the best finisher, he easily makes up for that with elite mid range shooting, kudos to him.

Seems to have lost all confidence in his shot again. Disappointing but not too unexpected.

Scottie doesn't get too many calls because he's often not beating his man clean and jumps into defenders hoping to get calls. It's just hard to get those when he so often looks off balance on his attempts at the rim.

looking at his numbers his FT rate year by year

Year 1: .231
Year 2: .242
Year 3: .266
Year 4: .284
This year: .265

I would say he's regressing to the mean negatively on his 3 point shooting (but a better shooter overall looking past 3 point shooting) and regressing to the mean positively in Free Throw rate (I think he was below .240 earlier).

The easiest way to put it is shot creation is his weakness (getting to his spots) but shot making is his strong suit (actually converting on his shots when he does get to his spots)

My opnion of course.

He has a good scoring touch and some creativity there as well with his finishing, just no go to move he can reliably get to for it to be high percentage.

[Indeed]

Barnes 3 point shot looks like it just dissapeared this month, just 1 hit 3 point shot puts him scoring 27 points on 21 shots which looks much different than 24 pts on 21 shots.

Barnes is indeed going back to hsi mean, but his mean isn't shooting 10.5% from 3, that is what Amen might average a month and as poor of a 3 point shooter barnes is, he's not Amen Thompson levels bad. So I do think he'll have some good games soon from 3 to rebalance his ice cold streak he's cirrently at (not saying he's going to shoot 35+% this entire month, but certainly not 105% where he's currently at either).

On the plus end his FTR has been getting to his career averages as well, and since prior to this year his FTr has been steadilly climbing up, it's not unreasonable for him to get it to slightly above .300 (last year his down year his FTr was at .284 for reference)

In totality he's getting to the SB were all envisioning, get to the line at a slightly below All Star rate and eat at the midrange, hoping his 3 point shot is respectable enough.

the biggest difference between Barnes and Cade is Cade gets to the FT line at a an elite rate. 'This' version of cade i'd easily take over Paolo considering while Cade isn't the best finisher, he easily makes up for that with elite mid range shooting, kudos to him.

Seems to have lost all confidence in his shot again. Disappointing but not too unexpected.

Scottie doesn't get too many calls because he's often not beating his man clean and jumps into defenders hoping to get calls. It's just hard to get those when he so often looks off balance on his attempts at the rim.

looking at his numbers his FT rate year by year

Year 1: .231
Year 2: .242
Year 3: .266
Year 4: .284
This year: .265

I would say he's regressing to the mean negatively on his 3 point shooting (but a better shooter overall looking past 3 point shooting) and regressing to the mean positively in Free Throw rate (I think he was below .240 earlier).

The easiest way to put it is shot creation is his weakness (getting to his spots) but shot making is his strong suit (actually converting on his shots when he does get to his spots)

My opnion of course.

I think most people here already concluded that Barnes is not a shot creator, he is not your 1st nor 2nd option. His current role being the 3rd or 4th option without spacing the floor. That also impacted his ability to playmake (the ball will mostly in the hands of your shot creators).

The biggest question is your 3rd or 4th elite defender without 3 point shot nor being a C woth the near-max? To me, it is a must for adding that 3 point shot, or play the point guard role, so that you can cheap out on your spacing PF or PG, but not even a healthy Ben Simmons would be paid in the MLE, so I am unsure his value with his contract.

[HumbleRen]

Seems to have lost all confidence in his shot again. Disappointing but not too unexpected.

Scottie doesn't get too many calls because he's often not beating his man clean and jumps into defenders hoping to get calls. It's just hard to get those when he so often looks off balance on his attempts at the rim.

looking at his numbers his FT rate year by year

Year 1: .231
Year 2: .242
Year 3: .266
Year 4: .284
This year: .265

I would say he's regressing to the mean negatively on his 3 point shooting (but a better shooter overall looking past 3 point shooting) and regressing to the mean positively in Free Throw rate (I think he was below .240 earlier).

The easiest way to put it is shot creation is his weakness (getting to his spots) but shot making is his strong suit (actually converting on his shots when he does get to his spots)

My opnion of course.

I think most people here already concluded that Barnes is not a shot creator, he is not your 1st nor 2nd option. His current role being the 3rd or 4th option without spacing the floor. That also impacted his ability to playmake (the ball will mostly in the hands of your shot creators).

The biggest question is your 3rd or 4th elite defender without 3 point shot nor being a C woth the near-max? To me, it is a must for adding that 3 point shot, or play the point guard role, so that you can cheap out on your spacing PF or PG, but not even a healthy Ben Simmons would be paid in the MLE, so I am unsure his value with his contract.

Bro what? lol.

[PushDaRock]

Seems to have lost all confidence in his shot again. Disappointing but not too unexpected.

Scottie doesn't get too many calls because he's often not beating his man clean and jumps into defenders hoping to get calls. It's just hard to get those when he so often looks off balance on his attempts at the rim.

looking at his numbers his FT rate year by year

Year 1: .231
Year 2: .242
Year 3: .266
Year 4: .284
This year: .265

I would say he's regressing to the mean negatively on his 3 point shooting (but a better shooter overall looking past 3 point shooting) and regressing to the mean positively in Free Throw rate (I think he was below .240 earlier).

The easiest way to put it is shot creation is his weakness (getting to his spots) but shot making is his strong suit (actually converting on his shots when he does get to his spots)

My opnion of course.

I think most people here already concluded that Barnes is not a shot creator, he is not your 1st nor 2nd option. His current role being the 3rd or 4th option without spacing the floor. That also impacted his ability to playmake (the ball will mostly in the hands of your shot creators).

The biggest question is your 3rd or 4th elite defender without 3 point shot nor being a C woth the near-max? To me, it is a must for adding that 3 point shot, or play the point guard role, so that you can cheap out on your spacing PF or PG, but not even a healthy Ben Simmons would be paid in the MLE, so I am unsure his value with his contract.

He's likely going to be an All-Star this year, maybe even an outside shot of making an All-NBA team. Contract isn't really an issue right now for him on a rookie max.

[dballislife]

i am content with prime barnes giving me a good 18-19 and prime cmb giving me a good 15...and both being all nba defenders guarding 1 through 5

[Indeed]

looking at his numbers his FT rate year by year

Year 1: .231
Year 2: .242
Year 3: .266
Year 4: .284
This year: .265

I would say he's regressing to the mean negatively on his 3 point shooting (but a better shooter overall looking past 3 point shooting) and regressing to the mean positively in Free Throw rate (I think he was below .240 earlier).

The easiest way to put it is shot creation is his weakness (getting to his spots) but shot making is his strong suit (actually converting on his shots when he does get to his spots)

My opnion of course.

I think most people here already concluded that Barnes is not a shot creator, he is not your 1st nor 2nd option. His current role being the 3rd or 4th option without spacing the floor. That also impacted his ability to playmake (the ball will mostly in the hands of your shot creators).

The biggest question is your 3rd or 4th elite defender without 3 point shot nor being a C woth the near-max? To me, it is a must for adding that 3 point shot, or play the point guard role, so that you can cheap out on your spacing PF or PG, but not even a healthy Ben Simmons would be paid in the MLE, so I am unsure his value with his contract.

He's likely going to be an All-Star this year, maybe even an outside shot of making an All-NBA team. Contract isn't really an issue right now for him on a rookie max.

For what we need to fillout, his contract that doesn't match his skill set is an issue.

You need a 3&D center to compensate the spacing, you need 1st and 2nd option, those 3 will cost at least 65% of the salary, adding his, that is at 90% with another shooting PG, which is gonna cost more than 10%.

If he can shoot the 3, we can cheap out on the C, or if he can play PG, we may get away with a MLE SG. It just won't work in terms of so many things we need to fill, and usually you surround your 1st and 2nd option, instead of your 3rd option (except he is elite C who can defend C and switch against guards).

[PushDaRock]

I think most people here already concluded that Barnes is not a shot creator, he is not your 1st nor 2nd option. His current role being the 3rd or 4th option without spacing the floor. That also impacted his ability to playmake (the ball will mostly in the hands of your shot creators).

The biggest question is your 3rd or 4th elite defender without 3 point shot nor being a C woth the near-max? To me, it is a must for adding that 3 point shot, or play the point guard role, so that you can cheap out on your spacing PF or PG, but not even a healthy Ben Simmons would be paid in the MLE, so I am unsure his value with his contract.

He's likely going to be an All-Star this year, maybe even an outside shot of making an All-NBA team. Contract isn't really an issue right now for him on a rookie max.

For what we need to fillout, his contract that doesn't match his skill set is an issue.

You need a 3&D center to compensate the spacing, you need 1st and 2nd option, those 3 will cost at least 65% of the salary, adding his, that is at 90% with another shooting PG, which is gonna cost more than 10%.

If he can shoot the 3, we can cheap out on the C, or if he can play PG, we may get away with a MLE SG. It just won't work in terms of so many things we need to fill, and usually you surround your 1st and 2nd option, instead of your 3rd option (except he is elite C who can defend C and switch against guards).

You are way overthinking this

[HiJiNX]

looking at his numbers his FT rate year by year

Year 1: .231
Year 2: .242
Year 3: .266
Year 4: .284
This year: .265

I would say he's regressing to the mean negatively on his 3 point shooting (but a better shooter overall looking past 3 point shooting) and regressing to the mean positively in Free Throw rate (I think he was below .240 earlier).

The easiest way to put it is shot creation is his weakness (getting to his spots) but shot making is his strong suit (actually converting on his shots when he does get to his spots)

My opnion of course.

I think most people here already concluded that Barnes is not a shot creator, he is not your 1st nor 2nd option. His current role being the 3rd or 4th option without spacing the floor. That also impacted his ability to playmake (the ball will mostly in the hands of your shot creators).

The biggest question is your 3rd or 4th elite defender without 3 point shot nor being a C woth the near-max? To me, it is a must for adding that 3 point shot, or play the point guard role, so that you can cheap out on your spacing PF or PG, but not even a healthy Ben Simmons would be paid in the MLE, so I am unsure his value with his contract.

Bro what? lol.

Could have just bolded the whole post tbh.

[XTC]

Barnes has gotta be the most criminally underrated players in the league by far IMO.

PER36 he's been a 20/8/6 guy, who can give you 2.5-3 stocks per game, anchor your defense, and run your offense. Hes the modern day Scottie Pippen. He isn't a #1 scoring option but man his playmaking, and defense are just elite. His effiency has caught up to other parts of his game, and his impact is througu the roof. If he stays healthy, he's a dark horse contender for DPOY (Along with Rudy, and Chet) if the Raptors go on a major run, and they keep their defense up.

Barnes at the present moment is an allstar, and if the Raptors gain any semblance of consistency hes going to be an All NBA fixture very soon.

[tsherkin]

Barnes 3 point shot looks like it just dissapeared this month, just 1 hit 3 point shot puts him scoring 27 points on 21 shots which looks much different than 24 pts on 21 shots.

Barnes is indeed going back to hsi mean, but his mean isn't shooting 10.5% from 3, that is what Amen might average a month and as poor of a 3 point shooter barnes is, he's not Amen Thompson levels bad. So I do think he'll have some good games soon from 3 to rebalance his ice cold streak he's cirrently at (not saying he's going to shoot 35+% this entire month, but certainly not 105% where he's currently at either).

On the plus end his FTR has been getting to his career averages as well, and since prior to this year his FTr has been steadilly climbing up, it's not unreasonable for him to get it to slightly above .300 (last year his down year his FTr was at .284 for reference)

In totality he's getting to the SB were all envisioning, get to the line at a slightly below All Star rate and eat at the midrange, hoping his 3 point shot is respectable enough.

Yeah, I mean, it's a rough shooting night. It happens to even the best players. He's been shooting poorly from 3 for like 20 games now (14 in December, 7 so far in January). We'll see what happens as the season moves forward. In January, he's also nearly at 22 ppg, and back near 17 FGA/g, which hasn't been ideal, and that's making a difference as well.

the biggest difference between Barnes and Cade is Cade gets to the FT line at a an elite rate. 'This' version of cade i'd easily take over Paolo considering while Cade isn't the best finisher, he easily makes up for that with elite mid range shooting, kudos to him.

I mean, Barnes is at .265 and Cade is above .254 for the first time in his career. And Cade's seasonal TS% is lower than Scottie's, albeit on higher volume. So take what you will from that. Cunningham is at 56.9% and Scottie's at 57.8% at the moment.

Scottie has a rough shooting night, but he does continue to show us things all across his game. And OT Scottie looked good on his scoring moves. I'm generally pretty happy with Barnes this year. Gotta see if he can maintain the 3 or if he just did what he usually does, which is have a month or two of good 3pt shooting before going back to being bawlz above the break. Only time will tell, but lots of the rest of his game still looks good.

[HumbleRen]

The separator between Cade and Scottie is Cade’s volume driving. Like just to give perspective on it, Cade is driving more per game than RJ and Scottie attempts combined.

As we can see with Shead, just having one of your best decision makers being able to touch paint just gets other guys better looks.

It’s not a coincidence that Scottie looks like a top 12 player whenever he has high driving games, it’s Magic/Lebron esque in those said games.

[Indeed]

The separator between Cade and Scottie is Cade’s volume driving. Like just to give perspective on it, Cade is driving more per game than RJ and Scottie attempts combined.

As we can see with Shead, just having one of your best decision makers being able to touch paint just gets other guys better looks.

It’s not a coincidence that Scottie looks like a top 12 player whenever he has high driving games, it’s Magic/Lebron esque in those said games.

He doesnt have the quickness, which you often see he can only beat half of his man, and that ended up in low percentage.

If he can drive against his man, we wouldnt need Ingram or Barrett.

[dandaman]

The separator between Cade and Scottie is Cade’s volume driving. Like just to give perspective on it, Cade is driving more per game than RJ and Scottie attempts combined.

As we can see with Shead, just having one of your best decision makers being able to touch paint just gets other guys better looks.

It’s not a coincidence that Scottie looks like a top 12 player whenever he has high driving games, it’s Magic/Lebron esque in those said games.

He doesnt have the quickness, which you often see he can only beat half of his man, and that ended up in low percentage.

If he can drive against his man, we wouldnt need Ingram or Barrett.

. He doesn't necessarily need to blow by his man, he can keep the defender on his hip as long as he collapses the defense and creates for others, or try to finish with a middy, he has been doing a good job of it last couple of games.

[Vampirate]

Barnes 3 point shot looks like it just dissapeared this month, just 1 hit 3 point shot puts him scoring 27 points on 21 shots which looks much different than 24 pts on 21 shots.

Barnes is indeed going back to hsi mean, but his mean isn't shooting 10.5% from 3, that is what Amen might average a month and as poor of a 3 point shooter barnes is, he's not Amen Thompson levels bad. So I do think he'll have some good games soon from 3 to rebalance his ice cold streak he's cirrently at (not saying he's going to shoot 35+% this entire month, but certainly not 105% where he's currently at either).

On the plus end his FTR has been getting to his career averages as well, and since prior to this year his FTr has been steadilly climbing up, it's not unreasonable for him to get it to slightly above .300 (last year his down year his FTr was at .284 for reference)

In totality he's getting to the SB were all envisioning, get to the line at a slightly below All Star rate and eat at the midrange, hoping his 3 point shot is respectable enough.

Yeah, I mean, it's a rough shooting night. It happens to even the best players. He's been shooting poorly from 3 for like 20 games now (14 in December, 7 so far in January). We'll see what happens as the season moves forward. In January, he's also nearly at 22 ppg, and back near 17 FGA/g, which hasn't been ideal, and that's making a difference as well.

the biggest difference between Barnes and Cade is Cade gets to the FT line at a an elite rate. 'This' version of cade i'd easily take over Paolo considering while Cade isn't the best finisher, he easily makes up for that with elite mid range shooting, kudos to him.

I mean, Barnes is at .265 and Cade is above .254 for the first time in his career. And Cade's seasonal TS% is lower than Scottie's, albeit on higher volume. So take what you will from that. Cunningham is at 56.9% and Scottie's at 57.8% at the moment.

Scottie has a rough shooting night, but he does continue to show us things all across his game. And OT Scottie looked good on his scoring moves. I'm generally pretty happy with Barnes this year. Gotta see if he can maintain the 3 or if he just did what he usually does, which is have a month or two of good 3pt shooting before going back to being bawlz above the break. Only time will tell, but lots of the rest of his game still looks good.

Cade's FTr is a blistering .366 right now, literally over .100 points higher than his previous high last year.

[tsherkin]

Cade's FTr is a blistering .366 right now, literally over .100 points higher than his previous high last year.

Yeah, it's been killer. If he could only finish at the basket, he'd be slaughtering it. Instead, he's -1.3% rTS. And even then, he's setting a career-high from 0-3 feet and remains a very good mid-range shooter. He's been making incremental improvements as a scorer, he's just struggling to put it all together to become actually efficient. If they add any real scoring talent around him, Detroit is going to be horrifying. They're already off to the races so far this season, too.

[HumbleRen]

Might end the season with another sub 30% from the 3 season at this rate.

[tsherkin]

Might end the season with another sub 30% from the 3 season at this rate.

We'll see what happens. Again, RJ was out, and we know how that has gone for Scottie. The 3 is concerning, but also not that surprising.

[Tha Cynic]

He has used the move where he keeps the defender at his hips while going into his offense (the Kawhi move), and the low swing swing through on shots in the paint, but he doesn't use it nearly enough. He also needs to get it into refs' heads that he needs more freethrows by consistently putting pressure on them, because he gets hosed a ton inside for some reason along with Ingram. The screaming helps. Dude is badly disrespected by refs (not sure if a Toronto thing). It has a huge impact on his TS% and other offensive stats which should offset his terrible 3 point shooting.

[YogurtProducer]

He has used the move where he keeps the defender at his hips while going into his offense (the Kawhi move), and the low swing swing through on shots in the paint, but he doesn't use it nearly enough. He also needs to get it into refs' heads that he needs more freethrows by consistently putting pressure on them, because he gets hosed a ton inside for some reason along with Ingram. The screaming helps. Dude is badly disrespected by refs (not sure if a Toronto thing). It has a huge impact on his TS% and other offensive stats which should offset his terrible 3 point shooting.

IDK how much the Toronto angle really is in play here. Demar used to get a ton of favorable calls, and his FTr in 2016 is still the 2nd highest of his career.

IMO it is a combination of:

- Barnes seems unlikable and kind of annoying (see his last tech where he mocks that lady). I could see refs subconsciously just not wanting to reward him if they dont like him.
- Barnes doesn't go up strong a lot and seems to avoid contact and take off from to far away

Lowry used to be on refs constantly, but I think refs knew Lowry was right and listened when he bitched. Barnes just seems to endlessly complain when there is not a chance of a foul getting called, so it effects his ability to get the "real" calls