We Can't Shoot for Sh*t

[Indeed]

Part of that is experience & age though. All of their main guys have been in the league for 8 seasons or more. Plus Tatum and Brown have been together that whole time.

White - 31 years old
Brown - 29
Hauser - 28
Pritchard - 28
Garza - 27
Queta - 26
Simons - 26
Tatum - 26

Almost every player has entered their prime.

Ingram is the only player on the roster this season that can match these guys experience wise & age wise (not going to count Yak......who hasn't played).

The other night against the Lakers we had BI, & almost everyone else that played was 24 years old or less & 3 years or less in the league. Shead has one year experience. CMB is a rookie, Martin is a rookie, Gradey has two years, Battle has 1 year.

It's actually impressive that they kept up.

I keep saying that if they are serious about winning, they need some veteran help. Experience matters.

Imagine this team with a 26 year old Scottie, a 27 year old RJ & a 30 year old Ingram (& a 22 yo CMB)......who have all been playing together for 3 seasons.

Thunders and Spurs must have some kind of veteran inside them that age cant explain, lol.

Stop giving excuse, Davion Mitchell said the same thing on his 1 year here on how he needs to think who to setup before calling the play. We simply lack a PG, rim pressure, a center, 3 point shooting with Barrett and Poeltl injured, and hardly able to fill with just these 2 positions.

The Thunder are a complete anomaly.

The discussion was comparing the ball movement & basketball IQ of the Boston Celtics vs the Raptors.

A perfect example is when we added capable veteran players for the championship run. Especially Gasol. The game looked very different. Suddenly the right reads were being made. Not only were they being made, but they were being made much quicker (instinctively).

Experience (& basketball IQ) matter.

Is our PG play also a problem? For aure. We have a guy who isn't a playmaker & a 2nd round pick that only has one year of experience.

I still think that you need creators before looking at high IQ role players. Those glue guys are to fit into the system, but your system also needs to optimize for your go to guys.

I dont see how a bunch of glue guys, high IQ, lots of experience can go far without a go to guy.

[TeamDisgruntled]

Don’t look now but after starting the season shooting 41.5% from 3 in his first 23 games, Scottie has gone back to being an absolute brick from 3.

A whopping 19.6% over his last 19 games. Seems like he’s kinda destined to just be that 30-34% type of shooter from 3. This team desperately needs a spacing centre, but a GOOD spacing centre. To bad they aren’t exactly easily acquirable.

[tsherkin]

This team desperately needs a spacing centre, but a GOOD spacing centre. To bad they aren’t exactly easily acquirable.

That's Mamu's job. He has his own limitations, of course, though he's been good for us off the bench.

What we need is effective shooting from all around, not just one or two guys, more than from any one position.

[TeamDisgruntled]

This team desperately needs a spacing centre, but a GOOD spacing centre. To bad they aren’t exactly easily acquirable.

That's Mamu's job. He has his own limitations, of course, though he's been good for us off the bench.

What we need is effective shooting from all around, not just one or two guys, more than from any one position.

Well yes, of course. But ultimately if Scottie and CMB are going to be playing 30-34+ minutes a game in this teams future youre going to need something a lot better than Mamu to pair with them in the front court. Mamu is likely gone this off-season if he keeps playing well, because someone is likely to pay him more than his essentially minimum league salary.

[tsherkin]

Well yes, of course. But ultimately if Scottie and CMB are going to be playing 30-34+ minutes a game in this teams future youre going to need something a lot better than Mamu to pair with them in the front court. Mamu is likely gone this off-season if he keeps playing well, because someone is likely to pay him more than his essentially minimum league salary.

We can hope, I guess. But this is what we've got right now, and we need a lead guard at least as much as we need that frontcourt presence, I think. Probably more, given how CMB has looked so far.

[TeamDisgruntled]

Well yes, of course. But ultimately if Scottie and CMB are going to be playing 30-34+ minutes a game in this teams future youre going to need something a lot better than Mamu to pair with them in the front court. Mamu is likely gone this off-season if he keeps playing well, because someone is likely to pay him more than his essentially minimum league salary.

We can hope, I guess. But this is what we've got right now, and we need a lead guard at least as much as we need that frontcourt presence, I think. Probably more, given how CMB has looked so far.

I don’t disagree, especially for this season. So many guards, so much mediocrity.

[LoveMyRaps]

Go get Trey Murphy

[tsherkin]

I don’t disagree, especially for this season. So many guards, so much mediocrity.

Yeah, it isn't ideal. But this is what this season was always going to be for us, right? Unless you get insanely lucky, you don't just miraculously turn around in one year. We're doing just fine for now. We're 25-19. We're on about 47-win pace. I still remember the first time we won that many games in a season back in 01. And how excited we were when it happened again in 2007. ANd how it didn't happen again until 2014.

It'd be the first time since 2022 if we do it again this year, and that would be really nice.

[Spates]

Given the significance of three point shooting in the modern NBA I'm endlessly shocked that the discourse hasn't evolved substantially. And maybe it's because the transition was too analytically driven in the first place. Now that the brain trust has adapted to the modern era it's no longer essential or enough to have a spacing center or a Danny Green type stationed in the corner. Shot creation is paramount. Raptors plummeted post-Lowry and there's notable history of of percentages plummeting outside of certain contexts.

This likely exists behind closed doors already but an in-depth understanding of how quality shots are created matters as much, if not more, than having "good" shooters. There's a reason why guys like KCP and Buddy Hield are all-world shooters when playing with the likes of Jokic, LeBron, and Haliburton. But it's not all-NBA shot creator or bust. I think there's an inherent predictability for shooters when they know when and how the pass will arrive. That requires consistency in the shot creator getting by the first-line of defense and drawing help. It allows for rhythm to be synchronized. It's an intuitive thing. Some people can't dance, and that's often a rhythm issue.

Raps have been without that guy for a while. Part of the raptors success this season has been finding the spaces for certain places to get in flow. I think we've seen it pretty clearly with BI, RJ, Shead, and Mamu mainly. CMB creates his own flow defensively. I really thought Scottie had tremendous timing at the start of the season but his limitations don't yet allow him to play his game with balance. Handles still too weak, and his jumper isn't reliable. Point guards are traditionally the guys that set the teams rhythm. If the Raps want to level up with this squad then that's the way. We need someone to pull-in the other pieces.

[tsherkin]

Given the significance of three point shooting in the modern NBA I'm endlessly shocked that the discourse hasn't evolved substantially. And maybe it's because the transition was too analytically driven in the first place. Now that the brain trust has adapted to the modern era it's no longer essential or enough to have a spacing center or a Danny Green type stationed in the corner. Shot creation is paramount. Raptors plummeted post-Lowry and there's notable history of of percentages plummeting outside of certain contexts.

I mean, you can get away with 4-out instead of 5-out. You can get away with double-bigs and so forth. There are many ways to arrange your offense. Ours isn't a problem of specific issue so much as we need more talent in general, and a couple of skillsets where we lack.

Raps have been without that guy for a while. Part of the raptors success this season has been finding the spaces for certain places to get in flow. I think we've seen it pretty clearly with BI, RJ, Shead, and Mamu mainly. CMB creates his own flow defensively. I really thought Scottie had tremendous timing at the start of the season but his limitations don't yet allow him to play his game with balance. Handles still too weak, and his jumper isn't reliable. Point guards are traditionally the guys that set the teams rhythm. If the Raps want to level up with this squad then that's the way. We need someone to pull-in the other pieces.

Yeah, I'm with most of that. I don't know if a PG specifically is the thing, at least not in the traditional sense. But we definitely need a lead perimeter guy who can be relied upon to attack the paint and move the ball more capably than some of our guys do. And with it, some degree of shot making and spacing effect. Which, ultimately, is a lot to ask.

[TeamDisgruntled]

I don’t disagree, especially for this season. So many guards, so much mediocrity.

Yeah, it isn't ideal. But this is what this season was always going to be for us, right? Unless you get insanely lucky, you don't just miraculously turn around in one year. We're doing just fine for now. We're 25-19. We're on about 47-win pace. I still remember the first time we won that many games in a season back in 01. And how excited we were when it happened again in 2007. ANd how it didn't happen again until 2014.

It'd be the first time since 2022 if we do it again this year, and that would be really nice.

I’m happy with the season we’re having, I’m just disappointed that none of Gradey, Walter or Quickley have been able capitalize on their opportunity to step up. Walters been fine, unspectacular if you will. Quickley has found his floater and improved a bit in the playmaking department but overall isn’t much better. With the shooting woes lately it’s been a bit of a wash. Gradey despite the occasional flash has been disappointing, still can’t shoot, no consistency, defence better but still bad. And Ochai has completely fallen off a cliff after a good season last year.

Fun season, with some disappointing elements sprinkled in.

[tsherkin]

I’m happy with the season we’re having, I’m just disappointed that none of Gradey, Walter or Quickley have been able capitalize on their opportunity to step up. Walters been fine, unspectacular if you will. Quickley has found his floater and improved a bit in the playmaking department but overall isn’t much better. With the shooting woes lately it’s been a bit of a wash. Gradey despite the occasional flash has been disappointing, still can’t shoot, no consistency, defence better but still bad. And Ochai has completely fallen off a cliff after a good season last year.

Fun season, with some disappointing elements sprinkled in.

Yeah, that's a fair characterization, I think. Would be nice if some of our guys could come through. We've seen some good things from Shead other than his shooting, and same from Martin. So that's nice. It isn't enough, but I mean, no one sane should be asking Shead to carry our team. That just isn't a fair expectation, for sure. Walter's okay as a deep bench guy. Ochai looks bleh most of the time. Gradey can't seem to put it together. Q is who he is. Not the guy we need, but he's not bad, just high-variance. And has a role fluctuating with our roster as our starters trade off injuries.

We need some fresh talent with more upside.

But on the whole? We're winning games. We're often fun to watch. And it's all coming after several very bleh years, so yeah, I think it's a pretty good season, too.

[Jakay]

I’m happy with the season we’re having, I’m just disappointed that none of Gradey, Walter or Quickley have been able capitalize on their opportunity to step up. Walters been fine, unspectacular if you will. Quickley has found his floater and improved a bit in the playmaking department but overall isn’t much better. With the shooting woes lately it’s been a bit of a wash. Gradey despite the occasional flash has been disappointing, still can’t shoot, no consistency, defence better but still bad. And Ochai has completely fallen off a cliff after a good season last year.

Fun season, with some disappointing elements sprinkled in.

Yeah, that's a fair characterization, I think. Would be nice if some of our guys could come through. We've seen some good things from Shead other than his shooting, and same from Martin. So that's nice. It isn't enough, but I mean, no one sane should be asking Shead to carry our team. That just isn't a fair expectation, for sure. Walter's okay as a deep bench guy. Ochai looks bleh most of the time. Gradey can't seem to put it together. Q is who he is. Not the guy we need, but he's not bad, just high-variance. And has a role fluctuating with our roster as our starters trade off injuries.

We need some fresh talent with more upside.

But on the whole? We're winning games. We're often fun to watch. And it's all coming after several very bleh years, so yeah, I think it's a pretty good season, too.

All those things, but also 0.578 on the year after tonight. Pretty great season if you ask me. Up from 0.366 in 24-25. I'll settle with a .200+ year over year improvement myself.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Maybe we should play our best shooter off the ball more with someone who can get him looks?

[YogurtProducer]

Maybe we should play our best shooter off the ball more with someone who can get him looks?

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3M&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022500618&PlayerID=1630193&RangeType=0&Season=2025-26&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612761&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

By my count, that is 4 transition 3's, 1 self created 3, 1 out of bounds play, and exactly 1 off-ball half court 3's.

Why doesn't IQ just always hit his shots instead of missing them? Is he stupid?

[lobosloboslobos]

Thank you, thank you. I'll take the credit for that magnificent outburst last night ...

[MEDIC]

I guess Quickley didn't take kindley to being called Immanuel Brickley or being lumped in with Dick McBrick as a bad shooter.

[traps#10]

Maybe we should play our best shooter off the ball more with someone who can get him looks?

The pressure of not running the offense and deciding who to call plays for really allows Quickley to play more free flowing

[YogurtProducer]

Maybe we should play our best shooter off the ball more with someone who can get him looks?

The pressure of not running the offense and deciding who to call plays for really allows Quickley to play more free flowing

Yeah, I could really tell on those transition 3's that his headspace was was more clear with Shead on the court.

As everyone knows, NBA players get very overwhelmed by playing offence.

[traps#10]

Maybe we should play our best shooter off the ball more with someone who can get him looks?

The pressure of not running the offense and deciding who to call plays for really allows Quickley to play more free flowing

Yeah, I could really tell on those transition 3's that his headspace was was more clear with Shead on the court.

As everyone knows, NBA players get very overwhelmed by playing offence.

Are you serious? You don’t think there’s any pressure when you’re asked to run the point? There’s a reason why some players with all the talent in the world but don’t succeed because it’s in their head. You look at the game thru the lens of just numbers, black or white it seems.