Quickley or Shead?

[Merit]

Yes, no **** we are focused on volume 3 point shooting when our best player(s) don’t do it at a good or high volume.

But what you keep focusing on is what we LOSE in IQ, not how easy it is to acquire what he does, nor the possible replacement of that role in Battle or others who would cost far less than IQ, allowing us to redistribute his salary elsewhere and improve the team.

Oh and if you’re looking for $hit you’ll keep finding it.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Quickley has the most non-pnr drives per game on the team. He also passes the most out of his drives amongst any starter.

What you think you’re watching is not actually happening.

Sure thing. Are they effective? Or is he being force-fed them in order to develop?

Why, if he is such an excellent drive and dish player, is he being used beside Shead (to pretty great effect, btw.)

RJ is not expected to facilitate the offense. IQ’s role is precisely TO do that, hence why he would be looking to pass out of his drives. Like, he’s the starting point guard...?

I don’t know what IQ has on you and yogurt producer but all I’m saying is IQ is more of a combo guard than a point guard. I’m saying he could drive (and finish his drives) more. I’m saying his shooting is important, but I’d move him sooner than any of the other starters. I’m saying it’s easier to find a volume shooter than it is to find a facilitator/shot creator. This is precisely why Donovan Mitchell is paid what he is, and why IQ is considered overpaid.

None of what I’m saying is controversial, but it’s certainly being made out that way.

[MEDIC]

Good article. Kind of sums up what a lot of us have been debating on here. Quick has some very much needed skills (shooting), but is also kind of an awkward fit in other ways.

https://raptorsinseven.substack.com/p/the-quickley-quandary

More damning than Quickley’s own lack of rim presence is the fact that the team as a whole gets to the basket way less frequently when he’s on the court (5th percentile rim-frequency impact, per Cleaning the Glass.) You’d hope that even if he himself isn’t living in the restricted area, his shooting gravity would help his teammates get there more. But he isn’t enough of an off-ball defense-bender to expose the soft underbelly the middle of the floor, and when the ball’s in his hands, the action is often contained above the break. The bulk of his passes are of the low-risk, low-reward variety. Just 36% of his assists are delivered to the rim, compared to 47% for his backup, Jamal Shead.

I understand the excitement about what Shead is doing in his sophomore season, especially after the kick-ass game he put together against the Clippers while starting in Quickley’s place. But much as I love what Shead brings as a backup, and think he can conceivably be a starter somewhere down the road, a sub-50% true-shooting mark isn’t going to cut it in that role right now, no matter how pesky his ball pressure or how slick his playmaking is.

He’s a 32% 3-point shooter, and though he has way more north-south burst than Quickley, and a more natural ability to create for others as a driver, Shead finishes an even lower share of his drives than IQ does, and shoots a much lower percentage (an unsightly 37.8%) on the ones he does finish. So even though he exerts a certain downward pressure on the defence with his quickness and attacking mentality, he doesn’t actually pose a rim-scoring threat. At the end of the day, he benefits from Quickley’s presence as much as anyone. The Raptors have been at their best with the two point guards sharing the floor and covering for each other’s weaknesses, outscoring opponents by 9 points per 100, according to PBP Stats.

[Merit]

Good article. Kind of sums up what a lot of us have been debating on here. Quick has some very much needed skills (shooting), but is also kind of an awkward fit in other ways.

https://raptorsinseven.substack.com/p/the-quickley-quandary

More damning than Quickley’s own lack of rim presence is the fact that the team as a whole gets to the basket way less frequently when he’s on the court (5th percentile rim-frequency impact, per Cleaning the Glass.) You’d hope that even if he himself isn’t living in the restricted area, his shooting gravity would help his teammates get there more. But he isn’t enough of an off-ball defense-bender to expose the soft underbelly the middle of the floor, and when the ball’s in his hands, the action is often contained above the break. The bulk of his passes are of the low-risk, low-reward variety. Just 36% of his assists are delivered to the rim, compared to 47% for his backup, Jamal Shead.

I understand the excitement about what Shead is doing in his sophomore season, especially after the kick-ass game he put together against the Clippers while starting in Quickley’s place. But much as I love what Shead brings as a backup, and think he can conceivably be a starter somewhere down the road, a sub-50% true-shooting mark isn’t going to cut it in that role right now, no matter how pesky his ball pressure or how slick his playmaking is.

He’s a 32% 3-point shooter, and though he has way more north-south burst than Quickley, and a more natural ability to create for others as a driver, Shead finishes an even lower share of his drives than IQ does, and shoots a much lower percentage (an unsightly 37.8%) on the ones he does finish. So even though he exerts a certain downward pressure on the defence with his quickness and attacking mentality, he doesn’t actually pose a rim-scoring threat. At the end of the day, he benefits from Quickley’s presence as much as anyone. The Raptors have been at their best with the two point guards sharing the floor and covering for each other’s weaknesses, outscoring opponents by 9 points per 100, according to PBP Stats.

I don’t always agree with Joe, but he’s one of the best Raptors writers around.

[LoveMyRaps]

Shead can put up a 40 piece with ease




40% TS

[HumbleRen]

Good article. Kind of sums up what a lot of us have been debating on here. Quick has some very much needed skills (shooting), but is also kind of an awkward fit in other ways.

https://raptorsinseven.substack.com/p/the-quickley-quandary

More damning than Quickley’s own lack of rim presence is the fact that the team as a whole gets to the basket way less frequently when he’s on the court (5th percentile rim-frequency impact, per Cleaning the Glass.) You’d hope that even if he himself isn’t living in the restricted area, his shooting gravity would help his teammates get there more. But he isn’t enough of an off-ball defense-bender to expose the soft underbelly the middle of the floor, and when the ball’s in his hands, the action is often contained above the break. The bulk of his passes are of the low-risk, low-reward variety. Just 36% of his assists are delivered to the rim, compared to 47% for his backup, Jamal Shead.

I understand the excitement about what Shead is doing in his sophomore season, especially after the kick-ass game he put together against the Clippers while starting in Quickley’s place. But much as I love what Shead brings as a backup, and think he can conceivably be a starter somewhere down the road, a sub-50% true-shooting mark isn’t going to cut it in that role right now, no matter how pesky his ball pressure or how slick his playmaking is.

He’s a 32% 3-point shooter, and though he has way more north-south burst than Quickley, and a more natural ability to create for others as a driver, Shead finishes an even lower share of his drives than IQ does, and shoots a much lower percentage (an unsightly 37.8%) on the ones he does finish. So even though he exerts a certain downward pressure on the defence with his quickness and attacking mentality, he doesn’t actually pose a rim-scoring threat. At the end of the day, he benefits from Quickley’s presence as much as anyone. The Raptors have been at their best with the two point guards sharing the floor and covering for each other’s weaknesses, outscoring opponents by 9 points per 100, according to PBP Stats.

Solution is to play Shead and IQ together more.

Shead makes up for IQ’s lack of lead guard ability and IQ makes up for Shead’s lack of shooting from above the break.

[MEDIC]

Good article. Kind of sums up what a lot of us have been debating on here. Quick has some very much needed skills (shooting), but is also kind of an awkward fit in other ways.

https://raptorsinseven.substack.com/p/the-quickley-quandary

More damning than Quickley’s own lack of rim presence is the fact that the team as a whole gets to the basket way less frequently when he’s on the court (5th percentile rim-frequency impact, per Cleaning the Glass.) You’d hope that even if he himself isn’t living in the restricted area, his shooting gravity would help his teammates get there more. But he isn’t enough of an off-ball defense-bender to expose the soft underbelly the middle of the floor, and when the ball’s in his hands, the action is often contained above the break. The bulk of his passes are of the low-risk, low-reward variety. Just 36% of his assists are delivered to the rim, compared to 47% for his backup, Jamal Shead.

I understand the excitement about what Shead is doing in his sophomore season, especially after the kick-ass game he put together against the Clippers while starting in Quickley’s place. But much as I love what Shead brings as a backup, and think he can conceivably be a starter somewhere down the road, a sub-50% true-shooting mark isn’t going to cut it in that role right now, no matter how pesky his ball pressure or how slick his playmaking is.

He’s a 32% 3-point shooter, and though he has way more north-south burst than Quickley, and a more natural ability to create for others as a driver, Shead finishes an even lower share of his drives than IQ does, and shoots a much lower percentage (an unsightly 37.8%) on the ones he does finish. So even though he exerts a certain downward pressure on the defence with his quickness and attacking mentality, he doesn’t actually pose a rim-scoring threat. At the end of the day, he benefits from Quickley’s presence as much as anyone. The Raptors have been at their best with the two point guards sharing the floor and covering for each other’s weaknesses, outscoring opponents by 9 points per 100, according to PBP Stats.

Solution is to play Shead and IQ together more.

Shead makes up for IQ’s lack of lead guard ability and IQ makes up for Shead’s lack of shooting from above the break.

Shead is actually decent above the break. He shoots 40% from top of key and the left side. Can't shoot a lick from the corners though. Right side above the break he struggles for some.reason.

But yeah, Quick is much better in transition and off the bounce.

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah, that’s a good article, but also contradicts what a lot of people have been stressing here. When you read things like this:

Quickley’s floater has also come back online this season, leading to a respectable 51.2% mark from 2-point range (the second-best of his career) and an excellent 1.02 points per possession as a pick-and-roll ball-handler. That makes him by far the most efficient pick-and-roll scorer on the team, and puts him in the 85th percentile league-wide. If you expand the sample to include possessions finished directly via pick-and-roll passes, he still ranks in the 82nd percentile - and ninth out of 48 players to have run at least 250 pick-and-rolls - at 1.09 points per play, according to Synergy.

He’s a really really good pick and roll player, something PGs do, and we’ve been without our best screener pretty much all year.

So he’s a solid defender, really good off the ball, really good as a PnR ball handler, and really good at protecting the ball.

For a team that runs the offense through non-PGs so much, it’s honestly confusing as all hell reading people say he “doesn’t fit” or whatever. Hes literally a perfect fit for RJ/BI/Barnes/Poeltl and outside acquiring an all-nba guy, there’s not a lot of PGs who do fit as well as IQ does

[YogurtProducer]

Good article. Kind of sums up what a lot of us have been debating on here. Quick has some very much needed skills (shooting), but is also kind of an awkward fit in other ways.

https://raptorsinseven.substack.com/p/the-quickley-quandary

Solution is to play Shead and IQ together more.

Shead makes up for IQ’s lack of lead guard ability and IQ makes up for Shead’s lack of shooting from above the break.

Shead is actually decent above the break. He shoots 40% from top of key and the left side. Can't shoot a lick from the corners though. Right side above the break he struggles for some.reason.

But yeah, Quick is much better in transition and off the bounce.

Considering one side is 25% and the other is 40%, makes me think it’s just some small sample ****.

[HumbleRen]

Yeah, that’s a good article, but also contradicts what a lot of people have been stressing here. When you read things like this:

Quickley’s floater has also come back online this season, leading to a respectable 51.2% mark from 2-point range (the second-best of his career) and an excellent 1.02 points per possession as a pick-and-roll ball-handler. That makes him by far the most efficient pick-and-roll scorer on the team, and puts him in the 85th percentile league-wide. If you expand the sample to include possessions finished directly via pick-and-roll passes, he still ranks in the 82nd percentile - and ninth out of 48 players to have run at least 250 pick-and-rolls - at 1.09 points per play, according to Synergy.

He’s a really really good pick and roll player, something PGs do, and we’ve been without our best screener pretty much all year.

So he’s a solid defender, really good off the ball, really good as a PnR ball handler, and really good at protecting the ball.

For a team that runs the offense through non-PGs so much, it’s honestly confusing as all hell reading people say he “doesn’t fit” or whatever. Hes literally a perfect fit for RJ/BI/Barnes/Poeltl and outside acquiring an all-nba guy, there’s not a lot of PGs who do fit as well as IQ does

More damning than Quickley’s own lack of rim presence is the fact that the team as a whole gets to the basket way less frequently when he’s on the court (5th percentile rim-frequency impact, per Cleaning the Glass.)

At the same time, this is what we need from our lead guard due to our best 2 players not being able to get consistent rim pressure which happens to be one of his weakness. It’s probably why he’s a very jarring watch for people. I think a lot of the complaints will go away if he’s able to get back to like 38% from the 3 on volume attempts.

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah, that’s a good article, but also contradicts what a lot of people have been stressing here. When you read things like this:

Quickley’s floater has also come back online this season, leading to a respectable 51.2% mark from 2-point range (the second-best of his career) and an excellent 1.02 points per possession as a pick-and-roll ball-handler. That makes him by far the most efficient pick-and-roll scorer on the team, and puts him in the 85th percentile league-wide. If you expand the sample to include possessions finished directly via pick-and-roll passes, he still ranks in the 82nd percentile - and ninth out of 48 players to have run at least 250 pick-and-rolls - at 1.09 points per play, according to Synergy.

He’s a really really good pick and roll player, something PGs do, and we’ve been without our best screener pretty much all year.

So he’s a solid defender, really good off the ball, really good as a PnR ball handler, and really good at protecting the ball.

For a team that runs the offense through non-PGs so much, it’s honestly confusing as all hell reading people say he “doesn’t fit” or whatever. Hes literally a perfect fit for RJ/BI/Barnes/Poeltl and outside acquiring an all-nba guy, there’s not a lot of PGs who do fit as well as IQ does

More damning than Quickley’s own lack of rim presence is the fact that the team as a whole gets to the basket way less frequently when he’s on the court (5th percentile rim-frequency impact, per Cleaning the Glass.)

At the same time, this is what we need from our lead guard due to our best 2 players not being able to get consistent rim pressure which happens to be one of his weakness. It’s probably why he’s a very jarring watch for people. I think a lot of the complaints will go away if he’s able to get back to like 38% from the 3 on volume attempts.

I don’t know why that’s Quickley’s fault though. If we went rim pressure, maybe guys like Scottie who aren’t spacers should be the ones criticized for not doing it?

Because without IQ we don’t have perimeter scoring threats. So what’s he supposed to do? Carry the entire offence? Shouldn’t that criticism fall on Ingram or Barnes for both not being volume perimeter shooters nor rim pressures?

[HumbleRen]

Yeah, that’s a good article, but also contradicts what a lot of people have been stressing here. When you read things like this:



He’s a really really good pick and roll player, something PGs do, and we’ve been without our best screener pretty much all year.

So he’s a solid defender, really good off the ball, really good as a PnR ball handler, and really good at protecting the ball.

For a team that runs the offense through non-PGs so much, it’s honestly confusing as all hell reading people say he “doesn’t fit” or whatever. Hes literally a perfect fit for RJ/BI/Barnes/Poeltl and outside acquiring an all-nba guy, there’s not a lot of PGs who do fit as well as IQ does

More damning than Quickley’s own lack of rim presence is the fact that the team as a whole gets to the basket way less frequently when he’s on the court (5th percentile rim-frequency impact, per Cleaning the Glass.)

At the same time, this is what we need from our lead guard due to our best 2 players not being able to get consistent rim pressure which happens to be one of his weakness. It’s probably why he’s a very jarring watch for people. I think a lot of the complaints will go away if he’s able to get back to like 38% from the 3 on volume attempts.

I don’t know why that’s Quickley’s fault though. If we went rim pressure, maybe guys like Scottie who aren’t spacers should be the ones criticized for not doing it?

Because without IQ we don’t have perimeter scoring threats. So what’s he supposed to do? Carry the entire offence? Shouldn’t that criticism fall on Ingram or Barnes for both not being volume perimeter shooters nor rim pressures?

I think it’s because you just naturally compare lead guards to other lead guards. IQ has one of the worst rim pressure numbers out of the starting guards in the league and he’s also in a massive shooting slump.

That’s naturally going to cause frustration with him and every missed shot just compounds with each other, anger builds, etc.

That’s why I think people will cool down once he finds his consistency with his shooting, hopefully yesterday was the break of the slump but we’ll see.

[YogurtProducer]

At the same time, this is what we need from our lead guard due to our best 2 players not being able to get consistent rim pressure which happens to be one of his weakness. It’s probably why he’s a very jarring watch for people. I think a lot of the complaints will go away if he’s able to get back to like 38% from the 3 on volume attempts.

I don’t know why that’s Quickley’s fault though. If we went rim pressure, maybe guys like Scottie who aren’t spacers should be the ones criticized for not doing it?

Because without IQ we don’t have perimeter scoring threats. So what’s he supposed to do? Carry the entire offence? Shouldn’t that criticism fall on Ingram or Barnes for both not being volume perimeter shooters nor rim pressures?

I think it’s because you just naturally compare lead guards to other lead guards. IQ has one of the worst rim pressure numbers out of the starting guards in the league and he’s also in a massive shooting slump.

That’s naturally going to cause frustration with him and every missed shot just compounds with each other, anger builds, etc.

That’s why I think people will cool down once he finds his consistency with his shooting, hopefully yesterday was the break of the slump but we’ll see.

That stat though is our team as a whole, and not IQ compared to other lead guards.

Feels like rim pressure should likely come from your top options, and it is weird to complain about IQ in that regard, especially when he is 4th on our team in half court touches. Ingram, Barnes, and Barrett all touch the ball more than he does in our half court sets.

Our lack of rim pressure is more of a inditement on Ingram and Barnes than it is IQ, because they are the ones initiating and finishing offensive plays at a higher rate.

[HumbleRen]

I don’t know why that’s Quickley’s fault though. If we went rim pressure, maybe guys like Scottie who aren’t spacers should be the ones criticized for not doing it?

Because without IQ we don’t have perimeter scoring threats. So what’s he supposed to do? Carry the entire offence? Shouldn’t that criticism fall on Ingram or Barnes for both not being volume perimeter shooters nor rim pressures?

I think it’s because you just naturally compare lead guards to other lead guards. IQ has one of the worst rim pressure numbers out of the starting guards in the league and he’s also in a massive shooting slump.

That’s naturally going to cause frustration with him and every missed shot just compounds with each other, anger builds, etc.

That’s why I think people will cool down once he finds his consistency with his shooting, hopefully yesterday was the break of the slump but we’ll see.

That stat though is our team as a whole, and not IQ compared to other lead guards.

Feels like rim pressure should likely come from your top options, and it is weird to complain about IQ in that regard, especially when he is 4th on our team in half court touches. Ingram, Barnes, and Barrett all touch the ball more than he does in our half court sets.

Our lack of rim pressure is more of a inditement on Ingram and Barnes than it is IQ, because they are the ones initiating and finishing offensive plays at a higher rate.

Your rim pressure mainly comes from your lead guards. Ideally yeah, your best players are the ones who create it but they’re both jumbo wings.

[YogurtProducer]

I think it’s because you just naturally compare lead guards to other lead guards. IQ has one of the worst rim pressure numbers out of the starting guards in the league and he’s also in a massive shooting slump.

That’s naturally going to cause frustration with him and every missed shot just compounds with each other, anger builds, etc.

That’s why I think people will cool down once he finds his consistency with his shooting, hopefully yesterday was the break of the slump but we’ll see.

That stat though is our team as a whole, and not IQ compared to other lead guards.

Feels like rim pressure should likely come from your top options, and it is weird to complain about IQ in that regard, especially when he is 4th on our team in half court touches. Ingram, Barnes, and Barrett all touch the ball more than he does in our half court sets.

Our lack of rim pressure is more of a inditement on Ingram and Barnes than it is IQ, because they are the ones initiating and finishing offensive plays at a higher rate.

Your rim pressure mainly comes from your lead guards. Ideally yeah, your best players are the ones who create it but they’re both jumbo wings.

Rim pressure comes from the guys who initiate offence and have the ball in their hands. A guy like Siakam put a ton of pressure on the rim but was a 4. Guys like Deni Avidja are driving like 20 times a night. Jaylen Brown pressures the hell out of the rim. So does Siakam. Rim pressure typically comes from your guards as they are initiating offence - but that is not the case here in TO a lot of the time.

IQ leads our team in 10.5 drives per night. BI has 9.7, Barrett 8.8, Barnes 8.2, Shead is at 6.6

But there is no reason why we shouldn't expect more rim pressure and driving from a guy like BArnes

[PushDaRock]

IQ looked to have more burst the last 2 games, perhaps the back issues were bothering him for some time.

[Psubs]

IQ looked to have more burst the last 2 games, perhaps the back issues were bothering him for some time.

Looks like he's able to run downhill now. Getting past people instead of being stopped and relying on the floater.

[HumbleRen]

That stat though is our team as a whole, and not IQ compared to other lead guards.

Feels like rim pressure should likely come from your top options, and it is weird to complain about IQ in that regard, especially when he is 4th on our team in half court touches. Ingram, Barnes, and Barrett all touch the ball more than he does in our half court sets.

Our lack of rim pressure is more of a inditement on Ingram and Barnes than it is IQ, because they are the ones initiating and finishing offensive plays at a higher rate.

Your rim pressure mainly comes from your lead guards. Ideally yeah, your best players are the ones who create it but they’re both jumbo wings.

Rim pressure comes from the guys who initiate offence and have the ball in their hands. A guy like Siakam put a ton of pressure on the rim but was a 4. Guys like Deni Avidja are driving like 20 times a night. Jaylen Brown pressures the hell out of the rim. So does Siakam. Rim pressure typically comes from your guards as they are initiating offence - but that is not the case here in TO a lot of the time.

IQ leads our team in 10.5 drives per night. BI has 9.7, Barrett 8.8, Barnes 8.2, Shead is at 6.6

But there is no reason why we shouldn't expect more rim pressure and driving from a guy like BArnes

I mean Scottie just doesn’t have the handles to do that. He’s providing DPOY caliber defence to make up for his lack of rim pressure.

IQ is providing 0 rim pressure and has been below average from the 3 this season so far. That’s just going to cause a hate train man lol, I don’t know why you’re surprised, you lived through the FVV and Lowry experience. This just happens with lead guards man, it happens to even better players than IQ.

[YogurtProducer]

Your rim pressure mainly comes from your lead guards. Ideally yeah, your best players are the ones who create it but they’re both jumbo wings.

Rim pressure comes from the guys who initiate offence and have the ball in their hands. A guy like Siakam put a ton of pressure on the rim but was a 4. Guys like Deni Avidja are driving like 20 times a night. Jaylen Brown pressures the hell out of the rim. So does Siakam. Rim pressure typically comes from your guards as they are initiating offence - but that is not the case here in TO a lot of the time.

IQ leads our team in 10.5 drives per night. BI has 9.7, Barrett 8.8, Barnes 8.2, Shead is at 6.6

But there is no reason why we shouldn't expect more rim pressure and driving from a guy like BArnes

I mean Scottie just doesn’t have the handles to do that. He’s providing DPOY caliber defence to make up for his lack of rim pressure.

IQ is providing 0 rim pressure and has been below average from the 3 this season so far. That’s just going to cause a hate train man lol, I don’t know why you’re surprised, you lived through the FVV and Lowry experience. This just happens with lead guards man, it happens to even better players than IQ.

I mean, to your first paragraph IQ is also providing other things. But again - typically rim pressure comes from your main options. It’s just weird to go “oh we don’t have any rim pressure, let’s blame the 4th option”.

It’s more an issue that Ingram and Barnes don’t provide it. They also don’t provide excess shooting (which IQ does). To me the bigger issues is our 2 main scorers both can’t get to the rim and are not major perimeter threats. That’s not IQs fault lol