Ja/AD ≠ BI. Much riskier and worse value

[Appostis]

Are you really that dense? or are you just trying to start an argument over nothing like you seem to do in this thread everyday....

Read the posts back and forth between posters before posting your dumb opinions no one asked for...

I said multiple times that getting Morant+AD would be a hard to do in trades also Yaks back is cooked so i doubt any team would want him....But it could be done just we would be a tax team....But it is possible to get both in trades just unrealistic which i said multiple times....

The argument was about raising the ceiling of this team and yes Morant + AD would raise the ceiling...

IQ Vs Morant....Yes Morant is the better player, The better starting PG, And has more upside considering hes still 26 years old....

And AD is better than every player being mentioned in here ofc Injuries are a concern but IQ/RJ both have not been very healthy either they both miss lots of games and are injury prone....

Before sticking your nose into things and try to smack talk me read the conversation before hand or just don't @ me at all.

You're a loss cause.

Don't worry young man..you'll learn to count one day..

You are joining and arguing on a topic you don't even know the context of....It was about if you take RJ/IQ off the team and put Morant/AD on it which players would raise the ceiling of the team in the playoffs.....Not if it was a realistic thing to do via cap space reasons....Because we will lose RJ for nothing due to Cap issues as well...

So next time you stick your nose in conversations at least read what the conversation is about instead of making up dumb ass narratives that don't exist to try and argue for nothing....

Foolish Raptors bandwagon fans like you should go back to being hockey fans.

I get that you don't have a actual argument.. it must be frustrating that you can't count. I'm asking again... Where are you magically getting the 40 odd extra million?

I have a autograph from Bargs ffs Of course because you can't put together an actual argument you have to call me a bandwagon fan



Beyond the money... Morant is not an improvement over IQ for this team. He's a declining player who's fit is worse fit almost across-the-board. AD might be a improvement over the two players if he could ever be healthy..but he won't be.

You can cry about me being a casual or whatever nonsense you want..I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by pointing out the stupidity of your posts.

[PhilBlackson]

LaMelo still remains the only real wild card I’d want us to gamble on as he’s the only one imo who has superstar potential (obv that’s if CHA hasn’t changed their mind & decided to see if they can figure it out).

I don't like the combination of him and Scottie. Scottie's maturing but he's still doing some wild stuff, Lamelo is 10x and it could unlock some bad Scottie behaviour.

The ironic thing is I actually look at it from the exact opposite perspective, that Scottie's maturity could rub off on LaMelo lol...and not only him but another guy like Shead. All of those guys can be a bit goofy/playful but I think a guy like Jamal could find a way to be a bit "silly" but yet still act with maturity, same with Scottie. Then we still have a damn good "vet" like BI that I could see LaMelo liking and maybe seeing how serious BI takes his craft etc...

The reality is obv all of these guys come with their own high level of risks...sadly all of them have their injury concerns that we'd pray Alex would turn around with always injured and aging AD being THE highest risk of injury and fading out quickly (look at when guys like KG, Amare, CWebb etc who were a lot healthier before they faded albeit with less medical sophistication at the time. Ja is THE one I would worry about being the bad influence and I'm not even talking about all the buffonish gun play, but he's gonna expect to be the focal point, hates movement offence/wants to dictate the offence and can't shoot while being a player that relies on an already declining athleticism.

LaMelo to me is the lowest risk of the bunch (but also by far the highest upside imo)...silly boyish immaturity isn't going to splinter the lockerroom like a pissed off Ja or teammates from his potentially selfish play. Unlike AD, LaMelo is on the right side of 30 and still incredibly young with a similar injury history to Steph with greater hope to improv and if we even remotely improved that, again that's a superstar talent. His insane shooting range & GRAVITY could/would completely change everything and how teams guard BI and Scottie etc, they can't sag off of LaMelo even a lil bit and he's an amazing passer. If we could improve his health & maturity by even 25-30%, I think he would have a "Hali" like effect on our team except he's an even better scorer...and look what a MASSIVE difference Hali's shooting threat and passing ability makes for IND. Talent wise I think LaMelo could be better, so imagine what that could potentially do for us. So yeah it's definitely a gamble but that to me is THE one worth taking...the other two are not imo unless it's more so being used as a way to dump IQ/Yak's contracts. I'd actually consider putting up a lil more in LaMelo trade to get him because of the upside and we haven't talked about how he could drastically improve the team's popularity/ratings OR how just having LaMelo on a successful team like ours as almost a guarantee to improve his trade value should we decide to move on so we could not only recoup the cost but potentially compound our return...

[RoteSchroder]

You're a loss cause.

Don't worry young man..you'll learn to count one day..

You are joining and arguing on a topic you don't even know the context of....It was about if you take RJ/IQ off the team and put Morant/AD on it which players would raise the ceiling of the team in the playoffs.....Not if it was a realistic thing to do via cap space reasons....Because we will lose RJ for nothing due to Cap issues as well...

So next time you stick your nose in conversations at least read what the conversation is about instead of making up dumb ass narratives that don't exist to try and argue for nothing....

Foolish Raptors bandwagon fans like you should go back to being hockey fans.

I get that you don't have a actual argument.. it must be frustrating that you can't count. I'm asking again... Where are you magically getting the 40 odd extra million?

I have a autograph from Bargs ffs Of course because you can't put together an actual argument you have to call me a bandwagon fan



Beyond the money... Morant is not an improvement over IQ for this team. He's a declining player who's fit is worse fit almost across-the-board. AD might be a improvement over the two players if he could ever be healthy..but he won't be.

You can cry about me being a casual or whatever nonsense you want..I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by pointing out the stupidity of your posts.

Subtracting our guards and adding AD wouldn't even be a large improvement. We're already a top 5 defense when Scottie and CMB are both healthy. You wouldn't be adding AD to the Scottie/CMB line up. AD would be replacing CMB. So it's not a cumulative return. We may get 48 minutes of good defense and increase our defensively versatility (CMB is more switchable, AD is better against bigs and 7 footers), but the on-court defensive peak isn't improving much if your 1-3 is a poo platter on defense.

Compared to what we're giving up - we're already weak AF at the guard position and perimeter shooting. Now we're subtracting our two best volume three point shooters. RJ and IQ average ~5 catch and shoot 3's per game at 37% (IQ's may have gone up after last game). IQ's percentages reverting back to norm, which he is capable of, is also exactly what we need. Our next two most reliable 3 point shooters are Ingram and Ja'Kobe at lower volume. Neither of which are really off-the-dribble shooters or off-screen shooters.

We're currently in a league where you can have a dumb ugly offense, but a bunch of scrubs get hot and you see a 15 point swing. AD is not helping us at all in that regard. He's also already on an offensive decline with a worse PPP as a roller and as a post-up threat (both this year and on the Lakers last year) than Scottie. AD's not a better play maker than Scottie. Not a better mid-range shooter than Ingram. That's not even considering his age, injury status, and contract situation.

We're already good at generating good looks from 3 with Darko's system, so it makes more sense to look for 3 point shooting to take advantage of that than going the other way.

Combine that with Clutch's obsession with Queen, where the Pelicans have a #30 defensive rating with him and #3 defensive rating without him. This dude wants to be last in 3 point shooting and last in defense..and somehow that equals a championship.

[Merit]

I don’t like the Ja or AD ideas, and I think comparing them to the BI move misses key differences.

1) BI fixed an obvious problem
The Raptors badly needed half-court scoring. BI directly addressed that.

What clear need do Ja or AD solve?

AD helps rim protection but doesn’t want to play center.

Ja adds rim pressure, but he can’t shoot, is bad defensively, injury-prone, and needs the ball constantly.

2) BI was a legit buy-low
Brown + Olynyk + protected 2026 FRP is reasonable value (Indiana likely never tanks without getting their pick back).

Ja or AD costs two of IQ/RJ/Jakob plus multiple FRPs. That’s not buy-low — that’s overpaying.

3) Fit and risk
BI fits Scottie and the roster. He scales.

Ja requires the offense to be built around him and brings durability and off-court risk.
AD forces awkward positional choices and accelerates the timeline without real contention upside. Plus he wants a big contract too

BI was a calculated swing. Ja or AD is a high-risk bet that doesn’t clearly solve the team’s core issues.

Very simply, it’s about cost. Your proposed cost is too high. By the way, Memphis doesn’t need RJ. They have Coward/KCP. They don’t need Jak either. They have Edey, Aldama and JJJ.

They do need a PG if they trade Ja. They could use a backup wing if they move one in trade. They could always use picks because they draft well. They most certainly could use shooting. This is why they are an ideal trade partner for us.

Ja/Landale for IQ/Ochai/2nd is a simple starting point. I for one would like to add Gradey in and get Spencer back. So Ja/Landale/Spencer for IQ/Ochai/Gradey/2016 2nd. Just for fun if we want to get under the tax, we can add mogbo to that deal and get OMP back, while also converting one of our two ways - likely AJ Lawson.

To your second point on BI being a “calculated swing” vs. Ja or Ad… you sure about that?

In the history of my life, I have never been a part of an offseason where multiple major nba players were being linked directly to the raptors in trade. This year is the exception.

Really?

Raptors are tossed into random trade rumors every freaking year .

Sure, to a certain extent. But not for virtually all the big names in play. This year is different.

[Merit]

I'm not a fan of Roger's ownership, but I will defend that they are not cheap skates. They are clearly willing to spend, but the NBA and NHL have the salary cap issues that make it prohibitive. If it was an uncapped league they would spend away to win.

Their willingness to spend is a recent phenomenon and has everything to do with their awareness that nobody gives a hoot about the jays unless they win.

As for the leafs - they’re the Yankees of hockey and the biggest hockey market. All they’ve got to do is win. Rogers sees this investment as legacy building. Hence billions of dollars invested into the tv deal.

I have yet to see the same kind of commitment and investment in basketball. My hope is that Larry and Masai double back to ownership of the Raps and TFC (maybe the argos too?).

That said, rogers is in the business of pleasing its shareholders. They have generated a lot of good will from the public via the jays and know how important that is to their brand.

My two cents, for what they’re worth.

Basketball has become the more lucrative sport than Hockey and Baseball because of its global marketability. That’s why of the Toronto teams the Raps have seen their valuation grow the most and are worth more than the leafs.

It’s not so much about spending into the tax. It’s the handcuffing. You shouldn’t spend into the tax unless you are a competitive team. Cause if you are not competitive and you are in the tax, you have few levers to fix your team.

Agreed on both points. Smart spending and demographic changes.

[Merit]

[streamable][/streamable]

Morant definitely is worse then RJ +IQ.
AD if healthy would be nice but he's not going to be healthy.. so let's move on.

How you really see Morant as a upgrade considering his decline, his defense, his contract, injury concerns and awful outside shooting...

I said Morant is an upgrade over IQ not IQ+RJ?....I said Morant + AD is an upgrade over IQ/Barrett....

Morant is the better player than IQ.....Because he is a better starting PG....IQ is not a starting PG he is a 6th man microwave scorer being paid and played like a high level starting PG...One historically good game won't convince me when we have a sample size of him not being a great starting PG.

Oh so is the issue that you can't count?

Feel free to explain how you're getting AD+ Morant for IQ and RJ... Really man think about what you're saying here before you hit that submit button.

Davis makes almost as much as those two and Morant is not a upgrade whatsoever but..

39.5 million + 55 million vs 32.5+ 27 million... Just waving away 40 odd million?

Even if you magically could make that trade work in still not sure it makes the team better unless you have AD more healthy then he's been for years. Morant is a downgrade from RJ or IQ.

What nonsense are you going on with? Seriously.. *face palm*

First off, it’s absolutely possible to trade IQ and RJ (and Jak and others) for both AD and Ja, especially in a 3 team trade since Memphis is under the tax.

Having said that, yes, health matters. We’d also be hamstrung without depth. Then again if it all clicks, we make a whole lotta noise. I would hate to lose RJ and Jak though.

The team could conceivably be better if we get a depth C like Landale and/or depth youngsters on 2 way contracts (OMP/Nembhard) that we can convert and pro-rate. Would be cool to have a canadian third string.

[Appostis]

[streamable][/streamable]

I said Morant is an upgrade over IQ not IQ+RJ?....I said Morant + AD is an upgrade over IQ/Barrett....

Morant is the better player than IQ.....Because he is a better starting PG....IQ is not a starting PG he is a 6th man microwave scorer being paid and played like a high level starting PG...One historically good game won't convince me when we have a sample size of him not being a great starting PG.

Oh so is the issue that you can't count?

Feel free to explain how you're getting AD+ Morant for IQ and RJ... Really man think about what you're saying here before you hit that submit button.

Davis makes almost as much as those two and Morant is not a upgrade whatsoever but..

39.5 million + 55 million vs 32.5+ 27 million... Just waving away 40 odd million?

Even if you magically could make that trade work in still not sure it makes the team better unless you have AD more healthy then he's been for years. Morant is a downgrade from RJ or IQ.

What nonsense are you going on with? Seriously.. *face palm*

First off, it’s absolutely possible to trade IQ and RJ (and Jak and others) for both AD and Ja, especially in a 3 team trade since Memphis is under the tax.

Having said that, yes, health matters. We’d also be hamstrung without depth. Then again if it all clicks, we make a whole lotta noise. I would hate to lose RJ and Jak though.

The team could conceivably be better if we get a depth C like Landale and/or depth youngsters on 2 way contracts (OMP/Nembhard) that we can convert and pro-rate. Would be cool to have a canadian third string.

For this team Morant is not a better player.

This is not 3-4 years ago. I'm sorry you folks can't accept he is a declining player who's game fits horribly with this team.

But hey if you want a injury prone guard who can't shoot and is somehow a even worse POA defender..come on down.

Mavs are not under the tax so you're making a muti team for AD with those restrictions in addition to a Morant trade.. sure that's happening mid season..

Christ the armchair GMs...put down the crack pipe.

[Merit]

[streamable][/streamable]

Oh so is the issue that you can't count?

Feel free to explain how you're getting AD+ Morant for IQ and RJ... Really man think about what you're saying here before you hit that submit button.

Davis makes almost as much as those two and Morant is not a upgrade whatsoever but..

39.5 million + 55 million vs 32.5+ 27 million... Just waving away 40 odd million?

Even if you magically could make that trade work in still not sure it makes the team better unless you have AD more healthy then he's been for years. Morant is a downgrade from RJ or IQ.

What nonsense are you going on with? Seriously.. *face palm*

First off, it’s absolutely possible to trade IQ and RJ (and Jak and others) for both AD and Ja, especially in a 3 team trade since Memphis is under the tax.

Having said that, yes, health matters. We’d also be hamstrung without depth. Then again if it all clicks, we make a whole lotta noise. I would hate to lose RJ and Jak though.

The team could conceivably be better if we get a depth C like Landale and/or depth youngsters on 2 way contracts (OMP/Nembhard) that we can convert and pro-rate. Would be cool to have a canadian third string.

For this team Morant is not a better player.

This is not 3-4 years ago. I'm sorry you folks can't accept he is a declining player who's game fits horribly with this team.

But hey if you want a injury prone guard who can't shoot and is somehow a even worse POA defender..come on down.

Mavs are not under the tax so you're making a muti team for AD with those restrictions in addition to a Morant trade.. sure that's happening mid season..

Christ the armchair GMs...put down the crack pipe.

You said it couldn’t be done. I showed you it could. You then resort to personal attacks. Cool.

For me it’s an either/or (Ja or Ad), but when you’re attacking another poster while simultaneously making a claim that’s factually incorrect, you leave yourself open to criticism.

As for Ja, my perspective is that he still hasn’t found his place. Having been younger and having made imperfect choices myself (though fortunately not to the extent of Ja) I’m not going to pretend like I know him personally and I’m going to look at his talent and age curve.

I maintain he’s a better choice for the Raptors if we also get a shooter back alongside him. And IMO he’s still just as talented a player as he was three to four years ago, and would represent Kyle Lowry redux for us.

Memphis is an ideal trade partner for the Raptors. Dallas has reclamation projects and Canadians.

Cut the personal attacks and come correct with factual arguments.

[Clutch0z24]

[streamable][/streamable]

Oh so is the issue that you can't count?

Feel free to explain how you're getting AD+ Morant for IQ and RJ... Really man think about what you're saying here before you hit that submit button.

Davis makes almost as much as those two and Morant is not a upgrade whatsoever but..

39.5 million + 55 million vs 32.5+ 27 million... Just waving away 40 odd million?

Even if you magically could make that trade work in still not sure it makes the team better unless you have AD more healthy then he's been for years. Morant is a downgrade from RJ or IQ.

What nonsense are you going on with? Seriously.. *face palm*

First off, it’s absolutely possible to trade IQ and RJ (and Jak and others) for both AD and Ja, especially in a 3 team trade since Memphis is under the tax.

Having said that, yes, health matters. We’d also be hamstrung without depth. Then again if it all clicks, we make a whole lotta noise. I would hate to lose RJ and Jak though.

The team could conceivably be better if we get a depth C like Landale and/or depth youngsters on 2 way contracts (OMP/Nembhard) that we can convert and pro-rate. Would be cool to have a canadian third string.

For this team Morant is not a better player.

This is not 3-4 years ago. I'm sorry you folks can't accept he is a declining player who's game fits horribly with this team.

But hey if you want a injury prone guard who can't shoot and is somehow a even worse POA defender..come on down.

Mavs are not under the tax so you're making a muti team for AD with those restrictions in addition to a Morant trade.. sure that's happening mid season..

Christ the armchair GMs...put down the crack pipe.

Lol again you are attacking posters when you are the wrong one in this situation claiming that trading for both is impossible when it is actually possible just not ideal just like having Yak/IQ under these contracts is also not ideal because we potentially will lose RJ for nothing if we can't get off one of them...

Morant is really a declining player? in his last two games he had 24/5/13, 23/12/3(Blocks) as a 26 year old? How in the world is that a declining player lol....Being injured and unable to play doesn't mean he is "Declining" injuries are apart of the game.....Was IQ a declining player because he only played 33 games last year? When Morant plays he produces.

IQ is not a bad player...No one is saying that at all but when it comes to being a floor general and a point guard Morant is better at that....If you say IQ is the better shooter sure that is true but being a better shooter does not mean he is a better player overall....

And AD is an actual top 10 when healthy....None of the players in this convo are even in that conversation....Ofc health matters but like i said RJ/Yak/IQ are not exactly the poster boys of health here...

You can be mad all you want and resort to attacking posters for their opinions but to me you are just a casual who doesn't understand the bigger picture when it comes to playoff basketball....Stars win in the playoffs the more you have the better the chance if you want to be a good regular season team and flame out in the first round then you can be happy with that result.

[Appostis]

First off, it’s absolutely possible to trade IQ and RJ (and Jak and others) for both AD and Ja, especially in a 3 team trade since Memphis is under the tax.

Having said that, yes, health matters. We’d also be hamstrung without depth. Then again if it all clicks, we make a whole lotta noise. I would hate to lose RJ and Jak though.

The team could conceivably be better if we get a depth C like Landale and/or depth youngsters on 2 way contracts (OMP/Nembhard) that we can convert and pro-rate. Would be cool to have a canadian third string.

For this team Morant is not a better player.

This is not 3-4 years ago. I'm sorry you folks can't accept he is a declining player who's game fits horribly with this team.

But hey if you want a injury prone guard who can't shoot and is somehow a even worse POA defender..come on down.

Mavs are not under the tax so you're making a muti team for AD with those restrictions in addition to a Morant trade.. sure that's happening mid season..

Christ the armchair GMs...put down the crack pipe.

Lol again you are attacking posters when you are the wrong one in this situation claiming that trading for both is impossible when it is actually possible just not ideal just like having Yak/IQ under these contracts is also not ideal because we potentially will lose RJ for nothing if we can't get off one of them...

Morant is really a declining player? in his last two games he had 24/5/13, 23/12/3(Blocks) as a 26 year old? How in the world is that a declining player lol....Being injured and unable to play doesn't mean he is "Declining" injuries are apart of the game.....Was IQ a declining player because he only played 33 games last year? When Morant plays he produces.

IQ is not a bad player...No one is saying that at all but when it comes to being a floor general and a point guard Morant is better at that....If you say IQ is the better shooter sure that is true but being a better shooter does not mean he is a better player overall....

And AD is an actual top 10 when healthy....None of the players in this convo are even in that conversation....Ofc health matters but like i said RJ/Yak/IQ are not exactly the poster boys of health here...

You can be mad all you want and resort to attacking posters for their opinions but to me you are just a casual who doesn't understand the bigger picture when it comes to playoff basketball....Stars win in the playoffs the more you have the better the chance if you want to be a good regular season team and flame out in the first round then you can be happy with that result.

You're the guy calling me casual because I pointed out the insanity of your salary cap math. Half the team traded mid season with one of the two teams involved being second apron? Yes..I can laugh at this idea.

Yes Morant is a declining player. He's entirely dependent on athletism that is declining with injuries and lacks shooting to help compensategor this decline.

What makes you think he's not declining? Points, FG%, 3point %, rebounds have been on a downward path the last 3 years..

Where exactly do you see the improvement or silver lining?

Do you really see drastically worse shooting and a worse POA defender at a substantially higher salary as a plus? A worse fit with Scotty is the awnser?

Davis as a idea I would love on this team..if he was healthy. He's not..he never is. You can say the same about Yak( games played are comparable) but you'd be ignoring Yak playing on a tanking team and Davis getting paid over double his salary.

You guys want to put in the team in cap hell for what could easily be a worse team..

[Merit]

For this team Morant is not a better player.

This is not 3-4 years ago. I'm sorry you folks can't accept he is a declining player who's game fits horribly with this team.

But hey if you want a injury prone guard who can't shoot and is somehow a even worse POA defender..come on down.

Mavs are not under the tax so you're making a muti team for AD with those restrictions in addition to a Morant trade.. sure that's happening mid season..

Christ the armchair GMs...put down the crack pipe.

Lol again you are attacking posters when you are the wrong one in this situation claiming that trading for both is impossible when it is actually possible just not ideal just like having Yak/IQ under these contracts is also not ideal because we potentially will lose RJ for nothing if we can't get off one of them...

Morant is really a declining player? in his last two games he had 24/5/13, 23/12/3(Blocks) as a 26 year old? How in the world is that a declining player lol....Being injured and unable to play doesn't mean he is "Declining" injuries are apart of the game.....Was IQ a declining player because he only played 33 games last year? When Morant plays he produces.

IQ is not a bad player...No one is saying that at all but when it comes to being a floor general and a point guard Morant is better at that....If you say IQ is the better shooter sure that is true but being a better shooter does not mean he is a better player overall....

And AD is an actual top 10 when healthy....None of the players in this convo are even in that conversation....Ofc health matters but like i said RJ/Yak/IQ are not exactly the poster boys of health here...

You can be mad all you want and resort to attacking posters for their opinions but to me you are just a casual who doesn't understand the bigger picture when it comes to playoff basketball....Stars win in the playoffs the more you have the better the chance if you want to be a good regular season team and flame out in the first round then you can be happy with that result.

You're the guy calling me casual because I pointed out the insanity of your salary cap math. Half the team traded mid season with one of the two teams involved being second apron? Yes..I can laugh at this idea.

Yes Morant is a declining player. He's entirely dependent on athletism that is declining with injuries and lacks shooting to help compensategor this decline.

What makes you think he's not declining? Points, FG%, 3point %, rebounds have been on a downward path the last 3 years..

Where exactly do you see the improvement or silver lining?

Do you really see drastically worse shooting and a worse POA defender at a substantially higher salary as a plus? A worse fit with Scotty is the awnser?

Davis as a idea I would love on this team..if he was healthy. He's not..he never is. You can say the same about Yak( games played are comparable) but you'd be ignoring Yak playing on a tanking team and Davis getting paid over double his salary.

You guys want to put in the team in cap hell for what could easily be a worse team..

You are currently shifting the goalposts. That’s all good. Just pointing it out.

Both of you guys need to stop attacking each other and stick to the points.

I think Ja’s issue is primarily mental and less so physical. He’s just not happy with how things were handled and he sulked about it. He’s since said he wants to remain in Memphis, which to me reads like their FO requesting that statement so they get an improved return in trade.

It’s pretty reasonable to think the team will improve with one or both of Ja and AD. You have already identified AD’s talent level. So there’s at least partial recognition.

Cap hell is relative to talent level, generally speaking. Does it make sense to have 4 players making 30 mil+ and a bench of largely minimum contract/rookie scale guys? Tough to say.

Regardless, just be kind to each other please.