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Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#141 » by tsherkin » Yesterday 10:49 pm

Vampirate wrote:You cannot build a championship around Barnes but there's a good shot you can build one with Barnes.


This is a good way to put it. He isn't the keystone player, the franchise. But he's very good at a bunch of stuff. And right now, shooting under 32% from 3, he's right around league-average efficiency, which isn't bad for a second or third option. His D, his rebounding, his passing in transition and on the short roll and stuff? He does a lot. He just isn't a consistent takeover scorer who creates advantage in the halfcourt. But beyond that, he has a ton to contribute, and can fit into the scheme of a title squad.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#142 » by MiamiSPX » Today 1:15 pm

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#143 » by manjusaka » Today 1:33 pm

He provides consistency lately. The Raptors still have some issues but SB isn’t the problem.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#144 » by MiamiSPX » Today 1:35 pm

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#145 » by Dexjackson » Today 2:14 pm

The continuous comments that Scottie is not a 1st option are short sighted and straight up disrespectful. This guy is a great bball player who is good to elite in most skills. Appreciate what we have rather than continuously wishing he was a KD, Curry, etc level scorer.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#146 » by TheGeneral99 » Today 2:37 pm

Dexjackson wrote:The continuous comments that Scottie is not a 1st option are short sighted and straight up disrespectful. This guy is a great bball player who is good to elite in most skills. Appreciate what we have rather than continuously wishing he was a KD, Curry, etc level scorer.


Yep, the dude is just 24 years old and already arguably a top 15 player in the NBA and of the best two players in the league.

He's doing it all for us with a 27-19 record despite missing key starters for most of the season.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#147 » by tsherkin » Today 4:23 pm

Dexjackson wrote:The continuous comments that Scottie is not a 1st option are short sighted and straight up disrespectful. This guy is a great bball player who is good to elite in most skills. Appreciate what we have rather than continuously wishing he was a KD, Curry, etc level scorer.


This post is a bit confused.

The commentary is pretty accurate. Scottie doesn't fit the profile of the level of player required to contend. His scoring approach and effect aren't that of a guy who can consistently dominate and take over games. None of that is false. But those observations do also frequently come with appreciation for the other things he does on the court, because there's plenty to appreciate. Especially this season. Even now that his 3pt shooting is tailing off, he's still only a tiny bit below league-average efficiency, which is acceptable given his volume and role. He's been doing a great job of attacking the basket so far this season, and we all already know that he's a strong rebounder and an excellent defender.

The problem with the narrative around Scottie is that it frequently devolves into this sort of "you can't criticize him" stuff, which is entirely bogus, or the exact opposite, where posters don't want to acknowledge his overall value.

The middle is the much more accurate space to occupy.

People criticized Michael Jordan in his career. Scottie can weather some accurate critiques of his limitations as well, and it'll still be fine. We've generally done a very good job positioning him for success this year, especially when other guys around him are scoring. When BI and Quick are doing their thing, Scottie tends to thrive and pick up that energy. And those sets where we were getting him at the nail were also great, because he's super dangerous from there when he goes aggressively toward the basket (which he has been a lot this year).

He's a great part of this team. Not perfect, not a superstar, but a critical part of our success and having a magnificent season.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#148 » by Dexjackson » Today 5:23 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Dexjackson wrote:The continuous comments that Scottie is not a 1st option are short sighted and straight up disrespectful. This guy is a great bball player who is good to elite in most skills. Appreciate what we have rather than continuously wishing he was a KD, Curry, etc level scorer.


This post is a bit confused.

The commentary is pretty accurate. Scottie doesn't fit the profile of the level of player required to contend. His scoring approach and effect aren't that of a guy who can consistently dominate and take over games. None of that is false. But those observations do also frequently come with appreciation for the other things he does on the court, because there's plenty to appreciate. Especially this season. Even now that his 3pt shooting is tailing off, he's still only a tiny bit below league-average efficiency, which is acceptable given his volume and role. He's been doing a great job of attacking the basket so far this season, and we all already know that he's a strong rebounder and an excellent defender.

The problem with the narrative around Scottie is that it frequently devolves into this sort of "you can't criticize him" stuff, which is entirely bogus, or the exact opposite, where posters don't want to acknowledge his overall value.

The middle is the much more accurate space to occupy.

People criticized Michael Jordan in his career. Scottie can weather some accurate critiques of his limitations as well, and it'll still be fine. We've generally done a very good job positioning him for success this year, especially when other guys around him are scoring. When BI and Quick are doing their thing, Scottie tends to thrive and pick up that energy. And those sets where we were getting him at the nail were also great, because he's super dangerous from there when he goes aggressively toward the basket (which he has been a lot this year).

He's a great part of this team. Not perfect, not a superstar, but a critical part of our success and having a magnificent season.


Maybe my choice of word could have been different but I stand by my point of "Why are fans always trying to make him into something he's not". He's not an elite scorer who is going to take over games, create scoring opportunities regardless of the situations. I wasn't saying he does not have to take accountability or he is beyond criticism. I agree that no one athlete should be beyond these things. I'm also not saying Scottie can't handle criticism.

The problem of not having a total alpha who can take over games regardless of anything thrown at them (BI is the closest but even he needs the team to put him in position) is a team problem. Scottie is not that player and elite teams almost always need one of those players....both things can be true.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#149 » by tsherkin » Today 5:42 pm

Dexjackson wrote:Maybe my choice of word could have been different but I stand by my point of "Why are fans always trying to make him into something he's not". He's not an elite scorer who is going to take over games, create scoring opportunities regardless of the situations.


I agree with you there. A lot of his primary detractors are worried about him not being a superstar instead of focusing on the fact that he's an AS-level talent who does good things for us on both sides of the ball when he's put into the right position. I suspect it's that many are starved for success and want to get back into contention, perhaps not realizing how rare that actually is for teams.

The problem of not having a total alpha who can take over games regardless of anything thrown at them (BI is the closest but even he needs the team to put him in position) is a team problem. Scottie is not that player and elite teams almost always need one of those players....both things can be true.


Can't argue with a word of that. I've said it often enough myself, hah!
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#150 » by PushDaRock » Today 6:25 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Tripod wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
He's more aggressive and a better shooter, which does end up making a big difference on the offensive end. Naturally, hard to separate out the SGA effect from how he plays, though.

If Barnes posted 16.8ppg on 47% and 30% from 3 in year 4, Raps fans would be losing their mind.

:lol:


Barnes posted 19/8/6 on under 45% FG in his fourth year. Williams has already missed 20 games due to injury, and was around 22/5/5 last year. So there's some context to be applied, as ever.


Williams also gutted out the entire playoffs with a messed up wrist that required 30 painkilling injections to play through and then eventually surgery to fix it and had another follow up procedure before the season started. His wrist clearly still isn't right yet.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#151 » by tsherkin » Today 6:32 pm

PushDaRock wrote:Williams also gutted out the entire playoffs with a messed up wrist that required 30 painkilling injections to play through and then eventually surgery to fix it and had another follow up procedure before the season started. His wrist clearly still isn't right yet.


Exactly.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#152 » by Basketball_Jones » Today 6:52 pm

I’m seeing some improvements on some of his fundamentals and creativity. It would really help if he could get a friendly whistle though lol. I’m still skeptical about him being a true 20 ppg scorer type like a siakam but if he puts the work in you can’t rule it out someday.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#153 » by dTox » Today 6:54 pm

Scottie is finally having the year we expected of him, which is the best outcome we can hope for, he is without question the best player on the team. He's not going to be a 1A scorer, we need to accept that fact, but he can definitely lead a team to somewhere in the top 5 seed in the East if he continues to live up to expectations. Once we have that tier 1 scorer, this team suddenly goes from top 5 in the East to contention, he can be the second best player on a contending team, and that's something nobody expected coming into the year, after last year's disappointing season. That's something to be happy about
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#154 » by Indeed » Today 6:56 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Dexjackson wrote:Maybe my choice of word could have been different but I stand by my point of "Why are fans always trying to make him into something he's not". He's not an elite scorer who is going to take over games, create scoring opportunities regardless of the situations.


I agree with you there. A lot of his primary detractors are worried about him not being a superstar instead of focusing on the fact that he's an AS-level talent who does good things for us on both sides of the ball when he's put into the right position. I suspect it's that many are starved for success and want to get back into contention, perhaps not realizing how rare that actually is for teams.

The problem of not having a total alpha who can take over games regardless of anything thrown at them (BI is the closest but even he needs the team to put him in position) is a team problem. Scottie is not that player and elite teams almost always need one of those players....both things can be true.


Can't argue with a word of that. I've said it often enough myself, hah!


The problem with Barnes is, he is paid like elite teams always needs one. He is paid like an alpha.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#155 » by tsherkin » Today 7:02 pm

Indeed wrote:The problem with Barnes is, he is paid like elite teams always needs one. He is paid like an alpha.


That is not true, no.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#156 » by Clay Davis » Today 7:05 pm

Scottie can be the best player on a contending team without being the best offensive scorer. Hell, he could have the highest point-average on a contending team without being the best iso scorer (consider the Lebron-Kyrie dynamic). I'm pretty high on his rizz. If his knowledge of the game keeps improving, there's really no limit to how good he can be. It's worth noting that if he becomes an even more prodigious play-maker his scoring will become measures more efficient.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#157 » by tsherkin » Today 7:13 pm

Clay Davis wrote:Scottie can be the best player on a contending team without being the best offensive scorer. Hell, he could have the highest point-average on a contending team without being the best iso scorer (consider the Lebron-Kyrie dynamic).


I still find that hard to envision. It's basically at odds with the majority of titles we've ever seen. A guy who can score at the level being discussed is rarely not the best player on his team, after all. Those guys are tier-1, the best of the best, ATG monsters. Barnes has more in common with Scottie Pippen than a title focus.

And of course, that's not a terrible thing at all. He's an excellent talent, we're lucky to have him. There's just this undercurrent to push guys towards something they are not, and we see it beyond our fanbase as well. Folks want to believe in unlimited upside and all that, and that can cause all kinds of consternation in a fanbase.

We should focus on just being happy with what he is, and how far he's come since we drafted him.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#158 » by Tripod » 23 minutes ago

Indeed wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Dexjackson wrote:Maybe my choice of word could have been different but I stand by my point of "Why are fans always trying to make him into something he's not". He's not an elite scorer who is going to take over games, create scoring opportunities regardless of the situations.


I agree with you there. A lot of his primary detractors are worried about him not being a superstar instead of focusing on the fact that he's an AS-level talent who does good things for us on both sides of the ball when he's put into the right position. I suspect it's that many are starved for success and want to get back into contention, perhaps not realizing how rare that actually is for teams.

The problem of not having a total alpha who can take over games regardless of anything thrown at them (BI is the closest but even he needs the team to put him in position) is a team problem. Scottie is not that player and elite teams almost always need one of those players....both things can be true.


Can't argue with a word of that. I've said it often enough myself, hah!


The problem with Barnes is, he is paid like elite teams always needs one. He is paid like an alpha.

Having the leagues 32nd highest cap hit would suggest otherwise.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#159 » by WuTang_CMB » 12 minutes ago

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 10 

Post#160 » by LoveMyRaps » 5 minutes ago

WuTang_CMB wrote:spacing is fun

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Trey Murphy would do wonders for Scottie and this team.
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