Collin Murray-Boyles Thread

[nowayguy]

Praise the Lord

Please actually be true, not three weeks of day-to-day status.

[LoveMyRaps]

Read on Twitter

[Thaddy]

Most impactful players ranked on eye test:

Barnes
CMB
Ingram
Poeltl
RJ
Mamu
IQ

[hellrazor04]

Most impactful players ranked on eye test:

Barnes
CMB
Ingram
Poeltl
RJ
Mamu
IQ

In terms of impactful, Shead is top 3 or 4 for me. The highest +/- on the team by far. Theres a clear difference with him on the floor.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'm guessing DDPM is like DBPM, which incorporates assists. Not only that, assists for a big man gets amplified. DBPM shows that Jokic is a top 5 defender of all time, for instance.

After the initial excitement, Queen may be approaching the worst starter in the entire league.

DDPM seems to account for teammates, pace and opponents. I don't know how they do this, but they don't blame Queen for New Orleans bad defense. He gives up a decent % at the rim. He rebounds. He gets deflections.

[Dexjackson]

Most impactful players ranked on eye test:

Barnes
CMB
Ingram
Poeltl
RJ
Mamu
IQ

In terms of impactful, Shead is top 3 or 4 for me. The highest +/- on the team by far. Theres a clear difference with him on the floor.

I agree. He makes all the little plays that swing games.

[TheGeneral99]

Some love for CMB from ESPN's rookie rankings, placing him 9th:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47674072/2025-26-nba-rookie-rankings-demin-tre-johnson-flagg-knuppel-edgecombe

9. Collin Murray-Boyles, Toronto Raptors
November ranking: Ninth

Despite being listed at 6-7, Murray-Boyles has spent 93% of his minutes at center, per Cleaning the Glass. That small-ball approach isn't perfect, as Murray-Boyles has plenty of offensive limitations; he has made only 15 3-pointers in 37 games. But his switchability and movement make him an ideal fit on the defensive end: The Raptors have a 106.6 defensive rating when Murray-Boyles shares the court with Scottie Barnes, which is 10 points better than the league average.

Based on December and January after Poeltl went down, I would probably have him in the top 5 tbh, but good to see him being recognized.

[OakleyDokely]

Watch on YouTube

[RoteSchroder]

I'm guessing DDPM is like DBPM, which incorporates assists. Not only that, assists for a big man gets amplified. DBPM shows that Jokic is a top 5 defender of all time, for instance.

After the initial excitement, Queen may be approaching the worst starter in the entire league.

DDPM seems to account for teammates, pace and opponents. I don't know how they do this, but they don't blame Queen for New Orleans bad defense. He gives up a decent % at the rim. He rebounds. He gets deflections.

Who’s they? The stat guys, SAC fans, or their teammates? Cause the Pelicans have been using tactics to hide Queen’s defense and the coach has been giving him the quick pull when things aren’t going well. He’s getting the Gradey treatment.

Pelicans are a #30 defense with him on the floor, #3 defense with him off apparently.

Rim protection stats can be deceiving. Wemby does not have good rim protection stats for example, because players avoid shooting near him.

For Queen, he has a ton of players who are willing to shoot over him. He’s top 6 in the league for FGA’s attempted against him at the rim despite only playing 26 min/game. Adjusted for minutes, he may be #1. That’s really bad considering he rarely defends the rim if he’s not already parked under there.

Pelicans, along with bad teams like the wizards, SAC, Dallas, Pacers, Nets all lead the league in FGA’s against them at the rim. Whereas all the good defenses, like OKC, NYK, Spurs, Boston, Detroit, have the lowest FGA against them.

The goal is to deter ppl from shooting in the paint, not invite them in.

[Yallbecrazy]

I'm guessing DDPM is like DBPM, which incorporates assists. Not only that, assists for a big man gets amplified. DBPM shows that Jokic is a top 5 defender of all time, for instance.

After the initial excitement, Queen may be approaching the worst starter in the entire league.

DDPM seems to account for teammates, pace and opponents. I don't know how they do this, but they don't blame Queen for New Orleans bad defense. He gives up a decent % at the rim. He rebounds. He gets deflections.

Who’s they? The stat guys, SAC fans, or their teammates? Cause the Pelicans have been using tactics to hide Queen’s defense and the coach has been giving him the quick pull when things aren’t going well. He’s getting the Gradey treatment.

Pelicans are a #30 defense with him on the floor, #3 defense with him off apparently.

Rim protection stats can be deceiving. Wemby does not have good rim protection stats for example, because players avoid shooting near him.

For Queen, he has a ton of players who are willing to shoot over him. He’s top 6 in the league for FGA’s attempted against him at the rim despite only playing 26 min/game. Adjusted for minutes, he may be #1. That’s really bad considering he rarely defends the rim if he’s not already parked under there.

Pelicans, along with bad teams like the wizards, SAC, Dallas, Pacers, Nets all lead the league in FGA’s against them at the rim. Whereas all the good defenses, like OKC, NYK, Spurs, Boston, Detroit, have the lowest FGA against them.

The goal is to deter ppl from shooting in the paint, not invite them in.

Queen has good hands, decent bbiq, and is a strong rebounder so he will get steals, blocks, and rebounds to inflate his dbpm and other advanced stats. He's also incredibly slow so he's often late to rotate and out of position. As a result he's like a very poor man's Jokic on D.

[TheGeneral99]

In January he averaged 11ppg, 8rpg, 1.3spg and 1.3bpg on 57%fg....amazing stats for a rookie.

[lolwut]

Some love for CMB from ESPN's rookie rankings, placing him 9th:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47674072/2025-26-nba-rookie-rankings-demin-tre-johnson-flagg-knuppel-edgecombe

9. Collin Murray-Boyles, Toronto Raptors
November ranking: Ninth

Despite being listed at 6-7, Murray-Boyles has spent 93% of his minutes at center, per Cleaning the Glass. That small-ball approach isn't perfect, as Murray-Boyles has plenty of offensive limitations; he has made only 15 3-pointers in 37 games. But his switchability and movement make him an ideal fit on the defensive end: The Raptors have a 106.6 defensive rating when Murray-Boyles shares the court with Scottie Barnes, which is 10 points better than the league average.

Based on December and January after Poeltl went down, I would probably have him in the top 5 tbh, but good to see him being recognized.

Top 5 range feels right. Not sure if he's exactly #5 on the list, but he's in that tier of prospects.

1. Flagg
2. Knueppel
3. Edgecombe?
4. Coward?
5. Harper/CMB/Kalkbrenner?

[Boogie!]

Most impactful players ranked on eye test:

Barnes
CMB
Ingram
Poeltl
RJ
Mamu
IQ

In terms of impactful, Shead is top 3 or 4 for me. The highest +/- on the team by far. Theres a clear difference with him on the floor.

Ochai agbaji highest plus minus last night definitely best player on the floor

[PushDaRock]

Most impactful players ranked on eye test:

Barnes
CMB
Ingram
Poeltl
RJ
Mamu
IQ

In terms of impactful, Shead is top 3 or 4 for me. The highest +/- on the team by far. Theres a clear difference with him on the floor.

Ochai agbaji highest plus minus last night definitely best player on the floor

just imagine how much better he would have been with more touches

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'm guessing DDPM is like DBPM, which incorporates assists. Not only that, assists for a big man gets amplified. DBPM shows that Jokic is a top 5 defender of all time, for instance.

After the initial excitement, Queen may be approaching the worst starter in the entire league.

DDPM seems to account for teammates, pace and opponents. I don't know how they do this, but they don't blame Queen for New Orleans bad defense. He gives up a decent % at the rim. He rebounds. He gets deflections.

Who’s they? The stat guys, SAC fans, or their teammates? Cause the Pelicans have been using tactics to hide Queen’s defense and the coach has been giving him the quick pull when things aren’t going well. He’s getting the Gradey treatment.

Pelicans are a #30 defense with him on the floor, #3 defense with him off apparently.

Rim protection stats can be deceiving. Wemby does not have good rim protection stats for example, because players avoid shooting near him.

For Queen, he has a ton of players who are willing to shoot over him. He’s top 6 in the league for FGA’s attempted against him at the rim despite only playing 26 min/game. Adjusted for minutes, he may be #1. That’s really bad considering he rarely defends the rim if he’s not already parked under there.

Pelicans, along with bad teams like the wizards, SAC, Dallas, Pacers, Nets all lead the league in FGA’s against them at the rim. Whereas all the good defenses, like OKC, NYK, Spurs, Boston, Detroit, have the lowest FGA against them.

The goal is to deter ppl from shooting in the paint, not invite them in.

I'm just doing my best to interpret this statistic for you. In general Cs tend to grade favourably on these catch-all defensive statistics.

[RoteSchroder]

I'm just doing my best to interpret this statistic for you. In general Cs tend to grade favourably on these catch-all defensive statistics.

Ah, I was wondering who you meant by “they don’t blame Queen…”. I just got it - you meant the stats don’t blame Queen for bad D.

I did mention that assists are incorporated into DBPM and that it gets amplified for bigs. I just read it might be incorporated for DARKO (D-DPM), with the logic that big men with assists are “smarter” defenders. Is that the stat being used here?

The page I read stated that Jokic was the #1 defender and Sabonis was 20th at that point. Sengun was also rated highly too (didn’t mention the ranking). So it does seem like it’s based on assists.

[hellrazor04]

Most impactful players ranked on eye test:

Barnes
CMB
Ingram
Poeltl
RJ
Mamu
IQ

In terms of impactful, Shead is top 3 or 4 for me. The highest +/- on the team by far. Theres a clear difference with him on the floor.

Ochai agbaji highest plus minus last night definitely best player on the floor

I think looking at the entire season gives better reference:


A bit concerning for Jakobe

[tsherkin]

In terms of impactful, Shead is top 3 or 4 for me. The highest +/- on the team by far. Theres a clear difference with him on the floor.

Ochai agbaji highest plus minus last night definitely best player on the floor

I think looking at the entire season gives better reference:


A bit concerning for Jakobe

Another look at the team:

[ConSarnit]

I'm just doing my best to interpret this statistic for you. In general Cs tend to grade favourably on these catch-all defensive statistics.

Ah, I was wondering who you meant by “they don’t blame Queen…”. I just got it - you meant the stats don’t blame Queen for bad D.

I did mention that assists are incorporated into DBPM and that it gets amplified for bigs. I just read it might be incorporated for DARKO (D-DPM), with the logic that big men with assists are “smarter” defenders. Is that the stat being used here?

The page I read stated that Jokic was the #1 defender and Sabonis was 20th at that point. Sengun was also rated highly too (didn’t mention the ranking). So it does seem like it’s based on assists.

It's always worth remembering when talking about advanced defensive stats:

Daryl Morey (paraphrasing): "Our internal defensive metrics are pretty ok, not good. Still better then what's out there publicly"

If actual teams don't even have good internal all-in-one defensive stats that should tell you a lot about what type of stats are available to the public.

[tsherkin]

It's always worth remembering when talking about advanced defensive stats:

Daryl Morey (paraphrasing): "Our internal defensive metrics are pretty ok, not good. Still better then what's out there publicly"

If actual teams don't even have good internal all-in-one defensive stats that should tell you a lot about what type of stats are available to the public.

Defensive measurables are tough, especially as you try to reduce them to fewer and fewer numbers. And that's before considering that you can do everything right and guys can still against you. Sometimes, simple tracking like deflections, good-v-bad rotations, rim attempts, open looks and stuff ike that tell the story as well as you're going to get. Stacked next to your plus-minus data flavor of the day and your video work, and that's what you get.


Sometimes, our mistake is in trying to find a super number instead of just dealing with the individual pieces of data. Maybe they've got some kind of scoring system adding up each of those individual things. AEnigma has something on his Substack he's calling CARUSO (heh) which is an interesting approach. It tracks steals, charges drawn, recovered blocks, rim protection, bunch of stuff about expected rebounding, defended shot volume, etc. That sort of thing starts to get interesting, and I"m sure there are many other versions from other folks out there.