Knicks are shopping KAT - Should the Raps pursue?

[Mattatron]

I would love to have KAT in TO (can't believe I said that). He fits perfectly next to Barnes, CMB, RJ/BI.
But NY will not trade him to a rival, and Ingram makes not any sense for them. So this ain't going to happen unfortunately.

[MiamiSPX]

KAT is so easy to throw off his game. Get him in foul trouble early and he has those mini meltdowns on the court. I hate the way he plays and how soft he is BUT I do see how perfect he would fit on our team. And we are not adding him as a final piece. We are still trying to take that next step, which is to become a perennial playoff team. He helps in that regard.

I just don't see that we have anything the Knicks would want.

[TGM]

I believe we can cover his defensive flaws with Barnes and CMB. He can be a decent weak side defender or blocker similar to Porz. He needs to be able to stretch the floor and fit fts and rebound which he can do.

He's awful at this. If he's not part of the primary action he has terrible defensive instincts and commits some of the dumbest fouls imaginable. Towns is only solid as a defender if he's switched onto someone or guarding the post, ie. the ball is right in front of him.

He has terrible defensive awareness off-ball.

Agree. If anything he is the man to ma defender that can stand big and tall where Barnes and CMB are both fabulous weak side help defenders. Barnes and CMB would feast on blocks from towns just making it a bit tougher for their defender. This is why Jaren Jackson was so good when he had Adams as his C.

[TGM]

In spite of is pretty ridiculous man. He maybe shouldn't be a top 10 paid NBA player, but he is still a hell of a player.

I would argue a 3 point stretchy big is actually EXACTLY what we need with Barnes, even moreso now with CMB in the fold to.

I do agree that realistically he is unobtainable, but that is operating from a perspective that I don't think he is truly on the trade market. But if you wanna talk "in theory", the following deals work salary wise (obviously picks would be involved in all):

KAT + Yabusele for Ingram + Poeltl
KAT + Dadiet + Hukporti for RJ + Poeltl + Agbaji

Now who knows how seriously KAT is being moved, but he certainly is a guy we "could" acquire if we tried to.

Ok, when I said the salary part I was never thinking anyone wouldn't be ridiculous enough to include Ingram and then add more. Or either of the guys they traded away already.

I dont think it is ridiculous to include Ingram by any means. KAT is a much, much better player than Ingram.

Both are flawed defenders, but KAT is a much better offensive piece. Not to mention a SIGNIFICANTLY better fit offensively with Scottie.

No way you give Ingram. Ingram is still a better self offense creator than KAT. You need two guys like that to win. One that can create from outside and one on inside.

[YogurtProducer]

Ok, when I said the salary part I was never thinking anyone wouldn't be ridiculous enough to include Ingram and then add more. Or either of the guys they traded away already.

I dont think it is ridiculous to include Ingram by any means. KAT is a much, much better player than Ingram.

Both are flawed defenders, but KAT is a much better offensive piece. Not to mention a SIGNIFICANTLY better fit offensively with Scottie.

No way you give Ingram. Ingram is still a better self offense creator than KAT. You need two guys like that to win. One that can create from outside and one on inside.

lol we’re not winning anything with Ingram, let’s be honest.

KAT spacing it out with Barnes/Barrett working inside is a much better formula than 4/5 starters all wanting to operate inside the arc.

[TGM]

I dont think it is ridiculous to include Ingram by any means. KAT is a much, much better player than Ingram.

Both are flawed defenders, but KAT is a much better offensive piece. Not to mention a SIGNIFICANTLY better fit offensively with Scottie.

No way you give Ingram. Ingram is still a better self offense creator than KAT. You need two guys like that to win. One that can create from outside and one on inside.

lol we’re not winning anything with Ingram, let’s be honest.

KAT spacing it out with Barnes/Barrett working inside is a much better formula than 4/5 starters all wanting to operate inside the arc.

Not saying Ingram is untouchable, but you add KAT and minus Ingram is like plus 1.1 minus 1. It does move the needle. You kind of need both guys.

[YogurtProducer]

No way you give Ingram. Ingram is still a better self offense creator than KAT. You need two guys like that to win. One that can create from outside and one on inside.

lol we’re not winning anything with Ingram, let’s be honest.

KAT spacing it out with Barnes/Barrett working inside is a much better formula than 4/5 starters all wanting to operate inside the arc.

Not saying Ingram is untouchable, but you add KAT and minus Ingram is like plus 1.1 minus 1. It does move the needle. You kind of need both guys.

I disagree. I think a spacey C would unlock RJ + Barnes a lot. KAT is definitely a more efficient and better offensive player than Ingram, and RJ + Barnes would take some leaps as well, IMO

[bballsparkin]

Trading Ingram without providing the opportunity to make the playoffs once as a Raptor doesn't sit right with me. Not for KAT. I look forward to seeing BI play in the playoffs as a Raptor. I think he has some big games in him once the game slows down. He just needs to stay healthy.

[MiamiSPX]

Trading Ingram without providing the opportunity to make the playoffs once as a Raptor doesn't sit right with me. Not for KAT. I look forward to seeing BI play in the playoffs as a Raptor. I think he has some big games in him once the game slows down. He just needs to stay healthy.

The Raps are not trading Ingram anytime soon. Least of all while sitting with a home-court playoff seed lol. Let's get real. He went out of his way to land in Toronto and wants to be there. He's still a "name" player and former All-Star, guys like that never willingly go to Toronto. Trade him now and Rich Paul will ensure nobody signs with the Raps ever again, on top of trashing the team on his new podcast (which he should not be doing IMO).

Raps will trade RJ and/or IQ before they trade Ingram. Not saying I agree or disagree, that's just how it is. We'll see.

[TorontoBarneys]

What do we have that the Knicks realistically want?

[bballsparkin]

What do we have that the Knicks realistically want?

Ownership of all FRPs. I wouldn't want to give up many for KAT though. Maybe a 2027 and a 2028 FRP swap right lol. they have to take back one of the former Knicks IQ or RJ too. That's kind of awkward. Maybe a third team would be needed.

KAT and Yabusele for RJ, Jakob, Ochai, Gradey and Mamu works. If Jakob gets healthy I think I'd rather keep the Raptors. Let alone with adding picks. KAT gets on my nerves so maybe I'm a little biased.

[WaltFrazier]

If Jak is healthy he is a great fit for the Knicks. I think NY might be thinking of a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade. Get a C and more depth pieces. IQ probably needs to get re-routed elsewhere. NY could be a suitor for AD as well. I could totally see Dallas trading AD for Towns and trying to build with KaT, Flagg and Kyrie.

Yes but he is not healthy. End of story.

[WaltFrazier]

What do we have that the Knicks realistically want?

Scottie would work

[WaltFrazier]

I believe we can cover his defensive flaws with Barnes and CMB. He can be a decent weak side defender or blocker similar to Porz. He needs to be able to stretch the floor and fit fts and rebound which he can do.

He's awful at this. If he's not part of the primary action he has terrible defensive instincts and commits some of the dumbest fouls imaginable. Towns is only solid as a defender if he's switched onto someone or guarding the post, ie. the ball is right in front of him.

He has terrible defensive awareness off-ball.

I watch every Knicks game. This is sadly true. If he was just average on D they wouldn't trade him

[bballsparkin]

What do we have that the Knicks realistically want?

Scottie would work

[Boogie!]

Lmfao

[RoteSchroder]

I believe we can cover his defensive flaws with Barnes and CMB. He can be a decent weak side defender or blocker similar to Porz. He needs to be able to stretch the floor and fit fts and rebound which he can do.

He's awful at this. If he's not part of the primary action he has terrible defensive instincts and commits some of the dumbest fouls imaginable. Towns is only solid as a defender if he's switched onto someone or guarding the post, ie. the ball is right in front of him.

He has terrible defensive awareness off-ball.

I watch every Knicks game. This is sadly true. If he was just average on D they wouldn't trade him

OG seemed pretty frustrated with him last year on D during the playoffs. He seems extra dumb on that end

[NinjaBro]

What do we have that the Knicks realistically want?

Scottie would work

[ConSarnit]

lol we’re not winning anything with Ingram, let’s be honest.

KAT spacing it out with Barnes/Barrett working inside is a much better formula than 4/5 starters all wanting to operate inside the arc.

Not saying Ingram is untouchable, but you add KAT and minus Ingram is like plus 1.1 minus 1. It does move the needle. You kind of need both guys.

I disagree. I think a spacey C would unlock RJ + Barnes a lot. KAT is definitely a more efficient and better offensive player than Ingram, and RJ + Barnes would take some leaps as well, IMO

When the rubber hits the road KAT is not a spacing C. Teams figured out that you could guard him with a PF/wing and that has worked better than guarding him with a C.

For KAT to be effective on the defensive end he has to play next to a rim protecting PF/C. Smart teams would have their C guard Barnes/CMB and let their PF guard Towns on the perimeter. The nullifies the C spacing aspect as Towns effectively becomes the PF on offense (where his +shooting has less of an impact positionally).

To optimize Towns you need a rim protector who can also space the floor. Few teams have that. In an effort to hide Towns on defense you also give up the main offensive advantage of having him on the floor (volume spacing C). Then he just becomes a floor spacing PF. That's valuable but not $55m/year valuable.

[YogurtProducer]

When the rubber hits the road KAT is not a spacing C. Teams figured out that you could guard him with a PF/wing and that has worked better than guarding him with a C.

I mean forcing a team to downsize would give us huge benefits tho - namely Scottie would have no resistance inside. We saw how that looked vs GSW the other night.

KAT is still a guy who has shot

For KAT to be effective on the defensive end he has to play next to a rim protecting PF/C. Smart teams would have their C guard Barnes/CMB and let their PF guard Towns on the perimeter.

I mean, Barnes is a pretty good rim protector from the PF spot. And then Barnes should be able to make teams pay for putting a slow C on him.

The nullifies the C spacing aspect as Towns effectively becomes the PF on offense (where his +shooting has less of an impact positionally).

Well this is going to happen regardless of who we get beside Barnes. Most teams are just going to flip their C and PF defensively - the next stage is Barnes has to make them pay for that.

To optimize Towns you need a rim protector who can also space the floor. Few teams have that. In an effort to hide Towns on defense you also give up the main offensive advantage of having him on the floor (volume spacing C). Then he just becomes a floor spacing PF. That's valuable but not $55m/year valuable.

I mean, you kind of just described Scottie as well. His optimal mate in the frontcourt is a stretchy C.

But the fact of the matter is KAT has made two straight CF's, and neither time did he have a rim protecting floor spacer letting him play PF. He played with Rudy, and OG as his frontcourt pairing.


I do agree he is overpaid, but he still is a great fit.