Acuff vs Fleming vs Brown vs Philon

[BAMAFREAK]

My comp for Philon is D’Angelo Russell. I just can’t shake it. Not twitchy or sudden but smooth, nice pace, deep bag, under control most of the time.
Acuff looks like Iverson the last few weeks. I don’t even think that hyperbole but man, he’s electric.

[vincecarter4pres]

My comp for Philon is D’Angelo Russell. I just can’t shake it. Not twitchy or sudden but smooth, nice pace, deep bag, under control most of the time.
Acuff looks like Iverson the last few weeks. I don’t even think that hyperbole but man, he’s electric.

Funny you say that, the last few games I’ve watched I was thinking he’s a lot like Russell with a little more wiggle and explosiveness in space.

But as much as I absolutely love Philon that’s what scares me out of projecting a high ceiling. He just doesn’t have a great or really even good first step or true burst.

Russell is flatout slow and landlocked, but the comp still holds a lot of weight.

And Russell is a quality player anyway.

I do think Philon has that little bit extra athletically and fluidly, and on the defensive side; and moving faster off ball that his ceiling is a better Russell, but yeah.

[BAMAFREAK]

My comp for Philon is D’Angelo Russell. I just can’t shake it. Not twitchy or sudden but smooth, nice pace, deep bag, under control most of the time.
Acuff looks like Iverson the last few weeks. I don’t even think that hyperbole but man, he’s electric.

Funny you say that, the last few games I’ve watched I was thinking he’s a lot like Russell with a little more wiggle and explosiveness in space.

But as much as I absolutely love Philon that’s what scares me out of projecting a high ceiling. He just doesn’t have a great or really even good first step or true burst.

Russell is flatout slow and landlocked, but the comp still holds a lot of weight.

And Russell is a quality player anyway.

I do think Philon has that little bit extra athletically and fluidly, and on the defensive side; and moving faster off ball that his ceiling is a better Russell, but yeah.

I agree completely and like to call that a little extra lean. Gives me some hope. I also wish he shot a little more off catch and shoots. That will help me n the NBA.
As a Bama fan, I love him and Russell is a decent player, but there’s a good bit of guards I like more in this class.
I’ll tell you who is killing their stock tonight is Christian Anderson. Yeesh, he looks really bad. Announcers are even questioning him. Zero urgency

[Fifii]

Philon is a very bad defender. In the NBA he must be hiding. In the offense he is very streaky. A lot of element he should improve such as handling, and layups. I know that he was double teamed most of the game but I don’t see him on the first half first round pick.

[Chuck Everett]

If Flemings is the first guard drafted after Peterson, that's a fireable offense. There are better guards available than him.

[King Ken]

If Flemings is the first guard drafted after Peterson, that's a fireable offense. There are better guards available than him.

Ya'll really gotta stop judging on one game.

[Chuck Everett]

If Flemings is the first guard drafted after Peterson, that's a fireable offense. There are better guards available than him.

Ya'll really gotta stop judging on one game.

I've liked Philon over him all season. Burries as well. He can't get to the rim without a ball screen. His best shot is in the mid-range. He never finishes around the hoop unless the lane is wide open.

[King Ken]

If Flemings is the first guard drafted after Peterson, that's a fireable offense. There are better guards available than him.

Ya'll really gotta stop judging on one game.

I've liked Philon over him all season. Burries as well. He can't get to the rim without a ball screen. His best shot is in the mid-range. He never finishes around the hoop unless the lane is wide open.

He finishes well with NBA pressure. He just struggles finishing when bigs are just sitting in the lane with no respect for any of his bigs as shooters

Flemings is fine at finishing when the big is rotationing which they will be in the NBA. They can't sit in the lane all day.

[King Ken]

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[DoubleLintendre]

If Wagler is in this mix I think he's got super high upside for where he's projected. Elite feel for the game, very high spatial awareness, and hypnotic handle with a solid (unusual looking) outside shot. Last time I got that vibe it was watching Tyrese Haliburton's draft tape.

Fleming reminds me of Tyrese Maxey in Ja Morant's wirey frame. I saw some Carson Wallace highlights and the passing style was similar. His handle is bad though with a high/pounding style dribble. Will be turnover prone and probably struggle with distance shooting for a while, will have to rely on dribble/pull up mid-rangers. Don't see a superstar but he's got good upside since he's a willing passer in an quick/springy athletic body. De'Aaron Fox tier imo.

Acuff reminds me of a Norman Powell-type player. Short but plays 2-3" bigger & stronger, finds ways to score. Plays fearless and takes advantage of gaps in the defense. I feel like his NBA ceiling is capped-- he looks small against college players and I didn't see a lot of variety outside of on-ball scoring for him.

Philon looks identical to Immanuel Quickley to me. Didn't watch a ton of tape. Seems low upside but solid floor.

Only player mentioned I haven't seen yet is Brown.

[King Ken]

If Wagler is in this mix I think he's got super high upside for where he's projected. Elite feel for the game, very high spatial awareness, and hypnotic handle with a solid (unusual looking) outside shot. Last time I got that vibe it was watching Tyrese Haliburton's draft tape.

Fleming reminds me of Tyrese Maxey in Ja Morant's wirey frame. I saw some Carson Wallace highlights and the passing style was similar. His handle is bad though with a high/pounding style dribble. Will be turnover prone and probably struggle with distance shooting for a while, will have to rely on dribble/pull up mid-rangers. Don't see a superstar but he's got good upside since he's a willing passer in an quick/springy athletic body. De'Aaron Fox tier imo.

Acuff reminds me of a Norman Powell-type player. Short but plays 2-3" bigger & stronger, finds ways to score. Plays fearless and takes advantage of gaps in the defense. I feel like his NBA ceiling is capped-- he looks small against college players and I didn't see a lot of variety outside of on-ball scoring for him.

Philon looks identical to Immanuel Quickley to me. Didn't watch a ton of tape. Seems low upside but solid floor.

Only player mentioned I haven't seen yet is Brown.

I think Flemings is much better than this. He's tier 2 for a reason. He's a modern Kevin Johnson. He's going to be elite in this league. He's a tier better than Fox was as a prospect

I love Wagler but I am at the point, I have no clue who to compare him to. I've accepted the fact that his finishing will not be great but it won't be bad either. His play strength is simply a lot better than it looks so that's not an issue.

I've said names in the past like Jarrett Culver, shades of Curry, and just a lot of names but no one really plays like him. He has an absolutely elite feel for the game. He can shoot it with ease. His balance is superb. His passing is elite even though his pass volume is low. You have to get the ball out of his hands constantly. The ball rarely sticks. He has an elite shooting IQ where you just never see bad shots. He's an elite player but he's not a stat but he kinda is. I don't know what the hell Wagler is. He simply never existed before. No prototype before him. He's like Boozer, he is his prototype.

Wagler was tier 1 for nearly a month because he broke all of my charts but dropped as Big Ten teams adjusted to him and made him the key of the gameplan and he struggled for it. Now he's really understanding the game as the lead guard. It looks different. I don't think he's going back to tier 1 but I would draft him over Acuff for sure.

Acuff is world class. He did a lot better offensively than I expected against Arizona. He wasn't guardable and honestly, everyone is guardable in college as a PG if you sell out to stop them. Arizona did at first in the 1st half but Arkansas was so bad outside of Acuff that they just changed their gameplan and of course, Arkansas lost.

Acuff is just impossible to guard. That's only going to get worse in the NBA. He definitely is a top 6-7 pick. Just can't see him in the top 5 though is this class.

For me, Flemings will kill his workouts and interviews which is why I think he's a likely lock for the top 5. Teams are going to have problems going against him as Wagler is definitely more of a game player and Acuff defense is extremely suspect.

Wagler and Acuff will battle it out for 6 and 7. Some teams may have Lopez and Ament in the mix as well just due to position needs or lack of needs. Lopez who is tier 3.5 is the player along with Quaintance who will skyrocket up the boards due to workouts. They will have the size and ability teams covet. Almost forgot, Mikel Brown Jr is an elite traits guy. He's going to have some teams who covet him more than Acuff and Wagler as well. So that's the three who can break the top 6-7 range outside of the two obvious guys.

[vincecarter4pres]

If Flemings is the first guard drafted after Peterson, that's a fireable offense. There are better guards available than him.

Ya'll really gotta stop judging on one game.

I've liked Philon over him all season. Burries as well. He can't get to the rim without a ball screen. His best shot is in the mid-range. He never finishes around the hoop unless the lane is wide open.

His first step, speed and verticality is elite, idk about needing a ball screen.

But his finishing is pretty subpar, which is weird and concerning given his physical tools.

I also tend to like Philon over him, and absolutely Burries, but don’t know that makes Flemings a lesser prospect independently.

Not to have him catching strays, but Wagler is a guy who absolutely needs ball screens to beat anyone, almost to even get a guy on his hip even with him, even.

Idk that Flemings has an easy path to a high ceiling, but that ceiling is certainly there. Would be surprised if he doesn’t eventually become something like a Schroeder level player, so probably has a safe enough floor to backup the upside gamble.

[King Ken]

Ya'll really gotta stop judging on one game.

I've liked Philon over him all season. Burries as well. He can't get to the rim without a ball screen. His best shot is in the mid-range. He never finishes around the hoop unless the lane is wide open.

His first step, speed and verticality is elite, idk about needing a ball screen.

But his finishing is pretty subpar, which is weird and concerning given his physical tools.

I also tend to like Philon over him, and absolutely Burries, but don’t know that makes Flemings a lesser prospect independently.

Not to have him catching strays, but Wagler is a guy who absolutely needs ball screens to beat anyone, almost to even get a guy on his hip even with him, even.

Idk that Flemings has an easy path to a high ceiling, but that ceiling is certainly there. Would be surprised if he doesn’t eventually become something like a Schroeder level player, so probably has a safe enough floor to backup the upside gamble.

Man he is so much better than Dennis right now. Come on, ya'll really underrating this guy. He's been an elite PG all year. Absolutely elite

Flemings is elite. He's easily clears Fox at this stage by an entire tier.

All of this talk about finishing is a nothing burger. He's a good finisher in transition and when the defense is rotating. When the defense is fully set, he struggles badly at finishing but it's never fully set in the NBA ever due to rules and spacing due to the quality of NBA bigs.

Teams are going to watch the tape and realize exactly what I am saying. I really don't see a path that any of these PGs going ahead of Flemings once interviews, workouts, and coaches get involved.

[vincecarter4pres]

I've liked Philon over him all season. Burries as well. He can't get to the rim without a ball screen. His best shot is in the mid-range. He never finishes around the hoop unless the lane is wide open.

His first step, speed and verticality is elite, idk about needing a ball screen.

But his finishing is pretty subpar, which is weird and concerning given his physical tools.

I also tend to like Philon over him, and absolutely Burries, but don’t know that makes Flemings a lesser prospect independently.

Not to have him catching strays, but Wagler is a guy who absolutely needs ball screens to beat anyone, almost to even get a guy on his hip even with him, even.

Idk that Flemings has an easy path to a high ceiling, but that ceiling is certainly there. Would be surprised if he doesn’t eventually become something like a Schroeder level player, so probably has a safe enough floor to backup the upside gamble.

Man he is so much better than Dennis right now. Come on, ya'll really underrating this guy. He's been an elite PG all year. Absolutely elite

Flemings is elite. He's easily clears Fox at this stage by an entire tier.

All of this talk about finishing is a nothing burger. He's a good finisher in transition and when the defense is rotating. When the defense is fully set, he struggles badly at finishing but it's never fully set in the NBA ever due to rules and spacing due to the quality of NBA bigs.

Teams are going to watch the tape and realize exactly what I am saying. I really don't see a path that any of these PGs going ahead of Flemings once interviews, workouts, and coaches get involved.

I’m saying his floor is something like Schroeder. You think he’s from day one better than current and/or prime Dennis? Idk about all that tbh. No matter how good Flemings becomes, few rookies are average starting caliber good from day one.

[King Ken]

His first step, speed and verticality is elite, idk about needing a ball screen.

But his finishing is pretty subpar, which is weird and concerning given his physical tools.

I also tend to like Philon over him, and absolutely Burries, but don’t know that makes Flemings a lesser prospect independently.

Not to have him catching strays, but Wagler is a guy who absolutely needs ball screens to beat anyone, almost to even get a guy on his hip even with him, even.

Idk that Flemings has an easy path to a high ceiling, but that ceiling is certainly there. Would be surprised if he doesn’t eventually become something like a Schroeder level player, so probably has a safe enough floor to backup the upside gamble.

Man he is so much better than Dennis right now. Come on, ya'll really underrating this guy. He's been an elite PG all year. Absolutely elite

Flemings is elite. He's easily clears Fox at this stage by an entire tier.

All of this talk about finishing is a nothing burger. He's a good finisher in transition and when the defense is rotating. When the defense is fully set, he struggles badly at finishing but it's never fully set in the NBA ever due to rules and spacing due to the quality of NBA bigs.

Teams are going to watch the tape and realize exactly what I am saying. I really don't see a path that any of these PGs going ahead of Flemings once interviews, workouts, and coaches get involved.

I’m saying his floor is something like Schroeder. You think he’s from day one better than current and/or prime Dennis? Idk about all that tbh. No matter how good Flemings becomes, few rookies are average starting caliber good from day one.

He's better right now than Dennis. I say that as someone with at least 10 nicknames for Dennis. Kingston is special.

[Chuck Everett]

Flemings isn't better than Jeremiah Fears nor Nolan Traore and their rookie years have been hit and miss this season. But the fact that you believe he's better than Schröder already means you expect him to step in as a rookie and be an immediate impact player. I expect you will be disappointed next season, but if you're that convinced, who am I to disagree with it.

I'll just wait until he gets in the league and we'll see what's what.

[SNPA]

If Wagler is in this mix I think he's got super high upside for where he's projected. Elite feel for the game, very high spatial awareness, and hypnotic handle with a solid (unusual looking) outside shot. Last time I got that vibe it was watching Tyrese Haliburton's draft tape.

Fleming reminds me of Tyrese Maxey in Ja Morant's wirey frame. I saw some Carson Wallace highlights and the passing style was similar. His handle is bad though with a high/pounding style dribble. Will be turnover prone and probably struggle with distance shooting for a while, will have to rely on dribble/pull up mid-rangers. Don't see a superstar but he's got good upside since he's a willing passer in an quick/springy athletic body. De'Aaron Fox tier imo.

Acuff reminds me of a Norman Powell-type player. Short but plays 2-3" bigger & stronger, finds ways to score. Plays fearless and takes advantage of gaps in the defense. I feel like his NBA ceiling is capped-- he looks small against college players and I didn't see a lot of variety outside of on-ball scoring for him.

Philon looks identical to Immanuel Quickley to me. Didn't watch a ton of tape. Seems low upside but solid floor.

Only player mentioned I haven't seen yet is Brown.

I think Flemings is much better than this. He's tier 2 for a reason. He's a modern Kevin Johnson. He's going to be elite in this league. He's a tier better than Fox was as a prospect

I love Wagler but I am at the point, I have no clue who to compare him to. I've accepted the fact that his finishing will not be great but it won't be bad either. His play strength is simply a lot better than it looks so that's not an issue.

I've said names in the past like Jarrett Culver, shades of Curry, and just a lot of names but no one really plays like him. He has an absolutely elite feel for the game. He can shoot it with ease. His balance is superb. His passing is elite even though his pass volume is low. You have to get the ball out of his hands constantly. The ball rarely sticks. He has an elite shooting IQ where you just never see bad shots. He's an elite player but he's not a stat but he kinda is. I don't know what the hell Wagler is. He simply never existed before. No prototype before him. He's like Boozer, he is his prototype.

Wagler was tier 1 for nearly a month because he broke all of my charts but dropped as Big Ten teams adjusted to him and made him the key of the gameplan and he struggled for it. Now he's really understanding the game as the lead guard. It looks different. I don't think he's going back to tier 1 but I would draft him over Acuff for sure.

Acuff is world class. He did a lot better offensively than I expected against Arizona. He wasn't guardable and honestly, everyone is guardable in college as a PG if you sell out to stop them. Arizona did at first in the 1st half but Arkansas was so bad outside of Acuff that they just changed their gameplan and of course, Arkansas lost.

Acuff is just impossible to guard. That's only going to get worse in the NBA. He definitely is a top 6-7 pick. Just can't see him in the top 5 though is this class.

For me, Flemings will kill his workouts and interviews which is why I think he's a likely lock for the top 5. Teams are going to have problems going against him as Wagler is definitely more of a game player and Acuff defense is extremely suspect.

Wagler and Acuff will battle it out for 6 and 7. Some teams may have Lopez and Ament in the mix as well just due to position needs or lack of needs. Lopez who is tier 3.5 is the player along with Quaintance who will skyrocket up the boards due to workouts. They will have the size and ability teams covet. Almost forgot, Mikel Brown Jr is an elite traits guy. He's going to have some teams who covet him more than Acuff and Wagler as well. So that's the three who can break the top 6-7 range outside of the two obvious guys.

Wagler is one of those guys that just plays at his speed. He can’t be sped up by the defense. That always makes the athletic concerns lessen for me, offensively at least. Then that length and willingness to throw his body around will be sufficient for defense IMO.

[King Ken]

Flemings isn't better than Jeremiah Fears nor Nolan Traore and their rookie years have been hit and miss this season. But the fact that you believe he's better than Schröder already means you expect him to step in as a rookie and be an immediate impact player. I expect you will be disappointed next season, but if you're that convinced, who am I to disagree with it.

I'll just wait until he gets in the league and we'll see what's what.

He is substantially better than both of those guys

[DoubleLintendre]

If Wagler is in this mix I think he's got super high upside for where he's projected. Elite feel for the game, very high spatial awareness, and hypnotic handle with a solid (unusual looking) outside shot. Last time I got that vibe it was watching Tyrese Haliburton's draft tape.

Fleming reminds me of Tyrese Maxey in Ja Morant's wirey frame. I saw some Carson Wallace highlights and the passing style was similar. His handle is bad though with a high/pounding style dribble. Will be turnover prone and probably struggle with distance shooting for a while, will have to rely on dribble/pull up mid-rangers. Don't see a superstar but he's got good upside since he's a willing passer in an quick/springy athletic body. De'Aaron Fox tier imo.

Acuff reminds me of a Norman Powell-type player. Short but plays 2-3" bigger & stronger, finds ways to score. Plays fearless and takes advantage of gaps in the defense. I feel like his NBA ceiling is capped-- he looks small against college players and I didn't see a lot of variety outside of on-ball scoring for him.

Philon looks identical to Immanuel Quickley to me. Didn't watch a ton of tape. Seems low upside but solid floor.

Only player mentioned I haven't seen yet is Brown.

I think Flemings is much better than this. He's tier 2 for a reason. He's a modern Kevin Johnson. He's going to be elite in this league. He's a tier better than Fox was as a prospect

I love Wagler but I am at the point, I have no clue who to compare him to. I've accepted the fact that his finishing will not be great but it won't be bad either. His play strength is simply a lot better than it looks so that's not an issue.

I've said names in the past like Jarrett Culver, shades of Curry, and just a lot of names but no one really plays like him. He has an absolutely elite feel for the game. He can shoot it with ease. His balance is superb. His passing is elite even though his pass volume is low. You have to get the ball out of his hands constantly. The ball rarely sticks. He has an elite shooting IQ where you just never see bad shots. He's an elite player but he's not a stat but he kinda is. I don't know what the hell Wagler is. He simply never existed before. No prototype before him. He's like Boozer, he is his prototype.

Wagler was tier 1 for nearly a month because he broke all of my charts but dropped as Big Ten teams adjusted to him and made him the key of the gameplan and he struggled for it. Now he's really understanding the game as the lead guard. It looks different. I don't think he's going back to tier 1 but I would draft him over Acuff for sure.

Acuff is world class. He did a lot better offensively than I expected against Arizona. He wasn't guardable and honestly, everyone is guardable in college as a PG if you sell out to stop them. Arizona did at first in the 1st half but Arkansas was so bad outside of Acuff that they just changed their gameplan and of course, Arkansas lost.

Acuff is just impossible to guard. That's only going to get worse in the NBA. He definitely is a top 6-7 pick. Just can't see him in the top 5 though is this class.

For me, Flemings will kill his workouts and interviews which is why I think he's a likely lock for the top 5. Teams are going to have problems going against him as Wagler is definitely more of a game player and Acuff defense is extremely suspect.

Wagler and Acuff will battle it out for 6 and 7. Some teams may have Lopez and Ament in the mix as well just due to position needs or lack of needs. Lopez who is tier 3.5 is the player along with Quaintance who will skyrocket up the boards due to workouts. They will have the size and ability teams covet. Almost forgot, Mikel Brown Jr is an elite traits guy. He's going to have some teams who covet him more than Acuff and Wagler as well. So that's the three who can break the top 6-7 range outside of the two obvious guys.

For my Fox comparison I meant him in the NBA, not just as a prospect. Flemings has more upside, but it's not a knock on him at all when I'm putting him at that level. I don't see the "IT" factor that screams All-Star every year. Could be wrong as he does have the physical tools to be dominant.

I'm just imagining what if you could take Acuff's style of play/scoring mentality in Flemings' body-- now that's an easy top #3 pick.

Just watched some Mikel Brown Jr tape and thought he looked OK. I see a role player/6th man type.

[JMAC3]

Fleming is a guy I have had doubts on all year and he was basically a no-show in all of Houstons biggest 3 games to end the year.

8 pts vs Arizona in Big12 champ game- Loss
9 pts vs Texas A&M- Win
11 pts vs Illinois- Loss

I had him below Wagler and Acuff and he didn't show me any reason to move him up.

Philon did a lot more to boost his stock imo.

35 vs Michigan- Loss
9 vs Texas Tech- Win
29 vs Hofsta- Win
28 vs Ole Miss- Loss