Aday Mara (2005) - the spanish freak?

[NO-KG-AI]

If he moves better than Edey, it sure didn’t show up anywhere.

[King Ken]

We clearly watch "film" differently but the way I watch basketball players play basketball told me that Ben Simmons wasnt as good as his numbers and would be a problem for the sixers..That Maxey was a top 3 player in his draft.. that Lonzo Ball sucked on ball and would only be an offball player.. that Kon was extremely underrated as a prospect, scorer and distributor.. Mara may be no good.. we'll see but conflating one "process" over another when both will lead to the same mixed results is illogical.

You haven't given me a statement on Mara that really defines your take that he's an impact starter. I asked you how. You gave a simple answer which even that statement, I questioned.

For those who like Mara, I haven't seen one person really definite if defending him. Tell me, you really haven't dug in which I have.

Watching differently is a lot different than just doing it wrong. If we are going 2+2=4. How we do it doesn't matter, it's the outcome. In this case, the outcome is completely different so watching differently is not a tangible statement.

Mara is a top 5 talent in the draft based on team need. The Clippers should and probably will, draft him without hesitation(if thye keep the pick). He is a worst defensive prospect, but better offensive prospect than Clingan who went 7 and he moves better than Edey who went 9. He's an 18/8/4 big who wont be played off the floor vs most teams due to his ability to score on other bigs.

There is no team need that says we need to draft a what would be late 1st round talent in the top 5. None. The reality is, you can find plenty of players better than him in FA at the same position for less than 5m per year. Plenty!

Edey is far better than him as a prospect and moving a lot better means nothing if you aren't athletic. Edey is simply 2x the athlete and 4x stronger.
Clingan is also far ahead of him. Much stronger base. Much better athlete and while he doesn't move well, he moves decently for his size.

He projects better offensively than both but none are good offensive players. Edey value on offense is his elite screening, ability to force bigs to defend the paint and defensively, he's athletic and tough for bigs to score on hence rates significantly drop when he's in the game.

Donovan value was always defense and he was clear he was going to translate from his film. His data with Portland in both seasons have proven just that.

He's really far from those guys. I know he's tier 4 just like them but they translate a lot better to the NBA just due to their strength and athleticism being where it needed to be. Edey needed to drop a few pounds and did that as well which helped even more for his defensive transition.

As others have said, guys who went in the 2nd round last year like Ryan Kalkbrenner was also tier 4 and he's not as good as Ryan either. Ryan is better offensively than Aday.

There is no chance in hell, he is this ever:

He's an 18/8/4 big who wont be played off the floor vs most teams due to his ability to score on other bigs.

Ryan is better offensively and he will have a hard time being this. Extremely hard time.

[King Ken]

If he moves better than Edey, it sure didn’t show up anywhere.

He's talking fluidity. Not actual athleticism

[BigGargamel]

I'm seeing top ten talk. I really thought the league got smarter, when it came to drafting tall stiffs way too early. But I guess the league just can't help itself. The temptation is always too big, no pun intended.

Like, I think he would make sense for Charlotte at 14. They have two picks in the first round, a lot of scorers, Diabate is an energy big. Mara can provide a few things as a backup/change of pace with Kalkbrenner. But you put in in the top ten, you are expecting way more than I think he is capable of. He's been at this for three years. He's a backup. I don't understand it, but I don't run an NBA team.

I wouldn't use a top 10 pick because this draft is so deep but the Thabeet comparisons are absurd.

I'm not comparing him to Thabeet at all. Thabeet was just a giant stiff. Mara has skills. I wouldn't take him in the first round, but mid-first round makes sense for a guy like him. He's 21, but still a major project. Top ten is just too rich for me.

I was wrong about Edey though, and I hope I'm wrong about him. I want every rookie to succeed. The NBA needs as much talent as it can get.

[JMAC3]

We clearly watch "film" differently but the way I watch basketball players play basketball told me that Ben Simmons wasnt as good as his numbers and would be a problem for the sixers..That Maxey was a top 3 player in his draft.. that Lonzo Ball sucked on ball and would only be an offball player.. that Kon was extremely underrated as a prospect, scorer and distributor.. Mara may be no good.. we'll see but conflating one "process" over another when both will lead to the same mixed results is illogical.

You haven't given me a statement on Mara that really defines your take that he's an impact starter. I asked you how. You gave a simple answer which even that statement, I questioned.

For those who like Mara, I haven't seen one person really definite if defending him. Tell me, you really haven't dug in which I have.

Watching differently is a lot different than just doing it wrong. If we are going 2+2=4. How we do it doesn't matter, it's the outcome. In this case, the outcome is completely different so watching differently is not a tangible statement.

Mara is a top 5 talent in the draft based on team need. The Clippers should and probably will, draft him without hesitation(if thye keep the pick). He is a worst defensive prospect, but better offensive prospect than Clingan who went 7 and he moves better than Edey who went 9. He's an 18/8/4 big who wont be played off the floor vs most teams due to his ability to score on other bigs.

18/8/4 even though he has never came close to that production. Played 25 min per game in college, yet won't be played off the floor in the NBA?

We have no evidence for either of these things.

[BigGargamel]

You haven't given me a statement on Mara that really defines your take that he's an impact starter. I asked you how. You gave a simple answer which even that statement, I questioned.

For those who like Mara, I haven't seen one person really definite if defending him. Tell me, you really haven't dug in which I have.

Watching differently is a lot different than just doing it wrong. If we are going 2+2=4. How we do it doesn't matter, it's the outcome. In this case, the outcome is completely different so watching differently is not a tangible statement.

Mara is a top 5 talent in the draft based on team need. The Clippers should and probably will, draft him without hesitation(if thye keep the pick). He is a worst defensive prospect, but better offensive prospect than Clingan who went 7 and he moves better than Edey who went 9. He's an 18/8/4 big who wont be played off the floor vs most teams due to his ability to score on other bigs.

18/8/4 even though he has never came close to that production. Played 25 min per game in college, yet won't be played off the floor in the NBA?

We have no evidence for either of these things.

Yeah, I don't get where that projection is coming from either. This is the first time Mara has shown much, and this was his third year in college. This isn't even an Edey situation, where he dominated college, and we were just wondering if that would translate to the NBA. Mara is still pretty much an unknown, and he's 21. I don't know how you would expect those kind of numbers from a guy like this, considering everything we've seen.

[King Ken]

I'm seeing top ten talk. I really thought the league got smarter, when it came to drafting tall stiffs way too early. But I guess the league just can't help itself. The temptation is always too big, no pun intended.

Like, I think he would make sense for Charlotte at 14. They have two picks in the first round, a lot of scorers, Diabate is an energy big. Mara can provide a few things as a backup/change of pace with Kalkbrenner. But you put in in the top ten, you are expecting way more than I think he is capable of. He's been at this for three years. He's a backup. I don't understand it, but I don't run an NBA team.

I wouldn't use a top 10 pick because this draft is so deep but the Thabeet comparisons are absurd.

I'm not comparing him to Thabeet at all. Thabeet was just a giant stiff. Mara has skills. I wouldn't take him in the first round, but mid-first round makes sense for a guy like him. He's 21, but still a major project. Top ten is just too rich for me.

I was wrong about Edey though, and I hope I'm wrong about him. I want every rookie to succeed. The NBA needs as much talent as it can get.

Thabeet might have been a bust, but he was a clearly better prospect than Mara.

[King Ken]

Mara is a top 5 talent in the draft based on team need. The Clippers should and probably will, draft him without hesitation(if thye keep the pick). He is a worst defensive prospect, but better offensive prospect than Clingan who went 7 and he moves better than Edey who went 9. He's an 18/8/4 big who wont be played off the floor vs most teams due to his ability to score on other bigs.

18/8/4 even though he has never came close to that production. Played 25 min per game in college, yet won't be played off the floor in the NBA?

We have no evidence for either of these things.

Yeah, I don't get where that projection is coming from either. This is the first time Mara has shown much, and this was his third year in college. This isn't even an Edey situation, where he dominated college, and we were just wondering if that would translate to the NBA. Mara is still pretty much an unknown, and he's 21. I don't know how you would expect those kind of numbers from a guy like this, considering everything we've seen.

Same, I really don't think they realize how hard the NBA is at the 5. They don't even get many touches on average. It's a lot of dirty work for most of them.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I think fans infatuate with the skilled big, and this draft has fallen off a cliff (for me) around 14-15 and Mara is the shiny thing for people who haven't been following CBB.

[King Ken]

This is insane. I've heard comps to Yao Ming. As big as a gap between me and many in the draft community with Zach Edey. Many chastised me for being high on Edey. Some for even thinking he's a 1st rounder. The gap might be even bigger between me and those guys than even that.

Here are the comp names that have simply been ridiculous

Andrew Bogut
Marc Gasol
Yao Ming
A. Sabonis

This is a player who's not even as good as Hasheem Thabeet. Man, I really don't know how people can be so different. What is it you are seeing? I am trying with everything to see it and can't. Why do I see a late 1st rounder and you are seeing a franchise changing star? Am I tripping? I don't believe I am but when a gap is this outrageous. I don't want to believe you are simply stupid as ****. I want to give you some type of benefit as that's the grounded basis of scouting. Everyone has an opinion which must be looked at with seriousness even if it's outrageous on surface. If you want to do a good job, you must cover all bases.

But yes, this is a bigger gap than what I had for Edey compared to others but in the opposite direction.

For the record, I do not believe Mara will have the career Thabeet had or worse. I do believe he will have a better career than Thabeet but that's due to what I know now. Not my opinion at that time. I didn't know Thabeet wouldn't love the game and mail it in for a check.

[King Ken]

I am honestly waiting for someone to compare Aday to Jokic. It's ridiculous honestly

[BlazersBroncos]

Thabeet was tremendously unskilled. He was a 0.4 apg guy in college.

I am not a Mara guy but I think he is FAR more skilled and has a way better feel for the game than Thabeet.

Its hard to find a comparison but Big Z is probably the best. Excellent rim protector, nice passer, poor lateral mobility. Mara will get more points finishing on rolls and Big Z was more of a middie maestro. Even this comp is far from ideal tho.

[King Ken]

Thabeet was tremendously unskilled. He was a 0.4 apg guy in college.

I am not a Mara guy but I think he is FAR more skilled and has a way better feel for the game than Thabeet.

Its hard to find a comparison but Big Z is probably the best. Excellent rim protector, nice passer, poor lateral mobility. Mara will get more points finishing on rolls and Big Z was more of a middie maestro. Even this comp is far from ideal tho.

He was. That was clear but defensively, a lot of the same issues but worse and that's why you draft either player, for their defense.

People forget about what you did good when you end up a bust. Thabeet was a good college player for at least a season. He just sucked at the pros and didn't translate to the NBA like I expect Mara to do. I just expect Mara to be better but not that much better.

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=aday-mara--hasheem-thabeet

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUPSGFzaGVlbSB0aGFiZWV0

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/6vc0pbyCj_g

This take is okay but as someone around back then. This was the logic. Thabeet was very fluid moving up and down and had some speed, he wasn't good for anything moving left and right if he wasn't already in a bee line but that was okay because Mutombo was the same way. The difference was, 5 things

Mutombo was strong. He could hold his own in most matchups not involving Shaq in the post. Thabeet was weak like Mara.

Mutombo had a tremendous feel for the game. Mara feel is just as good. A plus for Mara.

Thabeet like Mutombo was pretty athletic for his size. Unlike Mara who is slow. Mara is more fluid than both players by a significant margin nonetheless.

Mutombo like Thabeet was an elite rim protector but Thabeet struggled at paint protection where he shined in college as he just couldn't move mentally quick enough. This showed up when I scouted his Gleague games and gave what's the difference between him in the NBA and the Gleague. Years later, for Bakersfield, I scouted another big named Gobert. It amazed me how quickly could move laterally in a pitch. I wrote, when he gets stronger and wasn't weak, just too skinny, he could be a special NBA player. Before that, I was really scouting Dennis Schröder. Gobert was the one that stood out. Mutombo was rare. He was elite at both rim and paint protection. Thabeet was only elite at rim protection. Mara in my scout is elite at paint protection but I question his athleticism for rim protection. His mental speed should translate the paint presence on D.

The last thing is, where Dikembe shined the most was he was elite day 1. He came into the NBA an elite defender. I wonder if he was just very good, would he even be able to stay on the court especially when you consider how uncoordinated he was. Sherife Cooper was an elite HS player who was an excellent college true PG. But he wasn't elite like Trae Young while being better on defense than Trae.

Because Cooper was only just very good or excellent, he wasn't good enough to stay in the NBA. I just wonder, if Mara will face the same faith where he can only be here if he's elite. I don't believe that to be the case but I do wonder. Margins are extremely real at this level.



Big Z wasn't slow till he had all of those injuries and he wasn't weak. None of those Eastern Europeans are weak outside of the busts when teams paid an euro tax if their name ended in Vic or Cic. Remember that Kapono joke.

[sisibilio]

Why do I see a late 1st rounder and you are seeing a franchise changing star? Am I tripping?

I've read nobody saying that.

[sisibilio]

This take is okay but as someone around back then. This was the logic. Thabeet was very fluid moving up and down and had some speed, he wasn't good for anything moving left and right if he wasn't already in a bee line but that was okay because Mutombo was the same way. The difference was, 5 things

Mutombo was strong. He could hold his own in most matchups not involving Shaq in the post. Thabeet was weak like Mara.

Mutombo had a tremendous feel for the game. Mara feel is just as good. A plus for Mara.

Thabeet like Mutombo was pretty athletic for his size. Unlike Mara who is slow. Mara is more fluid than both players by a significant margin nonetheless.

Thabeet was better at running in a straight line, and maybe could jump higher, but his coordination was atrocious even compared to Mutombo, and his reactivity sucked also. One thing is doing good in a standard, predictable drill and a whole different story adjusting to a moving target that changes directions constantly like a real game.

[King Ken]

This take is okay but as someone around back then. This was the logic. Thabeet was very fluid moving up and down and had some speed, he wasn't good for anything moving left and right if he wasn't already in a bee line but that was okay because Mutombo was the same way. The difference was, 5 things

Mutombo was strong. He could hold his own in most matchups not involving Shaq in the post. Thabeet was weak like Mara.

Mutombo had a tremendous feel for the game. Mara feel is just as good. A plus for Mara.

Thabeet like Mutombo was pretty athletic for his size. Unlike Mara who is slow. Mara is more fluid than both players by a significant margin nonetheless.

Thabeet was better at running in a straight line, and maybe could jump higher, but his coordination was atrocious even compared to Mutombo, and his reactivity sucked also. One thing is doing good in a standard, predictable drill and a whole different story adjusting to a moving target that changes directions constantly like a real game.

You might want to go back and watch Mutombo. He might be the most uncoordinated NBA player to play meaningful minutes of all time. Thabeet was more coordinated than him.

His reactivity was truly horrendous. I completely agree there. He just seemed a tick late in the NBA at everything but straight up rim protection. This is where Mutombo was world class. His reactivity was elite.

[King Ken]

Why do I see a late 1st rounder and you are seeing a franchise changing star? Am I tripping?

I've read nobody saying that.

Yes they are.
Yao Ming
Marc Gasol
A. Sabonis
Even a name like Andrew Bogut is one I was perfectly fine with when he went #1 overall.

Those are all impact players

[King Ken]

I had a chance to really sit down and watch a lot of Mara's film. From Spain and UCLA more than Michigan as I already watched a lot of his Michigan film.

I think saying he's a guaranteed bust might be the wrong statement. He might be a bigger bust year 1-3 than even I've been leading on, but there is some hope assuming he gets on the Neeimas Queta plan Boston put him on.

First, let's talk about what I saw. He has an accel/deccel. I saw it in Spain more than in America but I believe we may see it in the next level.
He's a good partial body mover but a terrible full body mover which makes his transition to the NBA next to impossible within the first couple of seasons.

What does that mean? When he sets a screen, he can actually pop decently for anyone and use his accel and even deccel to get to a spot quickly. But when he has to run full court or even when he's beat off the dribble, his body takes too much time to load. This is a death sentence in the NBA and will likely always be a weakness, but it is brutal considering his play strength.

I actually think he has decent pop regardless of moving laterally or going for a dunk. He doesn't take long to load off of partial body movements.

He's really weak and really slow. While he's definitely gotten stronger from Spain and UCLA, at those places, he was extremely weak, and it led to him getting played off the court on defense in particular.

His offense pop is there in Spain more than at UCLA, which makes sense, more space in Europe than in the NCAA's for bigs. That said, he has some legit skill and his improvement on that end is real.

A lot of his defense at UCLA and Michigan is rule-based (NCAA). He's not good at anything the NBA needs but paint protection, which is where he's special.

Until his defense at the pros catches up to his offense, he's not going to be getting minutes in the NBA.

He needs to be around 276-280. He doesn't just need weight; he needs strength, and he needs about 3 years.

5 pounds 2026, 5 pounds 2027, 8 to 10 pounds 2028.

2029, I want him in the rotation as an 8-10th man. 10 mpg and sometimes in Maine if let's say he's a Celtic.

2030, I want him in the starting rotation, 24-26 mpg. I think he would make a serious case for MIP if not outright win it.

There is potential offensively in 2030-2034 to make an All-Star team. There is legit 20ppg potential if he can stay on the floor defensively.

I see him long-term as a drop center who, if he can get his play strength to average or solid, could guard bigs in the post and obviously be a world-class paint protector. His rim protection is extremely limited right now but bump his body in 5 years and maybe there is upside to be a good rim protector too.

I can't say he's a guaranteed failure, as there is something there long-term if there is a plan. That said, you are a freaking idiot if you take him in the 1st round. He's a bad defensive NBA prospect. He has a lot of work to do on that end, and it's not instantly fixable either.

The play strength is horrible.
He's slow, and his full-body loads are really slow like Edey's, but he doesn't have Edey's strength or athleticism or anywhere close.
No ass, no hips, no claves, buddy is not built for professional sports right now, outside of volleyball, and even that could be a stretch.
His frame is much worse than Thabeet, I was wrong saying he's closest to Thabeet because Thabeet was much bigger at UCONN.
I don't feel his size much outside of rule-based situations. In Spain, I barely felt his size on defense. Offensively, I felt it.
His partial movements show on both ends. He does have a nice pop. It's not special, but it's real.
His brain has definitely improved at Michigan. Too many times at UCLA and even Spain pro league, I felt he was reacting instead of using his instincts. You have to give Dusty May props for developing all these kids. Yaxel and Morez improved as well. I do think that's valuable.

I would caution the league from booting him after 3 failed seasons because he does have some real upside once he gets his body to a pro level at this stage and really develops him with patience. I'll advise against drafting him in the 1st round. Do not put that expectation on this kid.

There is a legit All-Star path given the Neeimas Queta plan. Do not boot him to Spain and watch them develop him into one of the best players in Europe and one of the better players in the world. He needs time, patience, and a real plan of action.

Excellent college player. Really improved this year. More of an NCAA rules-based defender than an NBA defender by a mile, but does have upside once he fully develops into his body with a plan from the org.

I believe he needs 3 years in the G-League, which is more than your typical tier 5 prospect, but there is a lot more upside with him than those guys.

He's a 100% bust as a lottery pick. No question about it. Don't do it.

[JMAC3]

I don't know with certainty with Mara, I just think he has had great pub the last 2 months that caused him to go from a borderline first round talent to a top 5 pick. That to me is a red flag and probably doesn't end up pretty for the team that drafts him.

Patrick Williams was another guy that went from borderline top 20 guy to going 4th overall.
Even Davion Mitchell got an incredible rise when Baylor won the natty- him as 15th pick was a lot more palatable as a good role player instead of going top 10.
Walter Clayton went 18th over Kasparas, Traore, Will Riley and Hugo. Will see how that ages.
Jarrett Culver went 6th after Texas Tech went to finals and lost to UVA and Deandre Hunter 4th
Zach Collins went 10th after Gonzaga lost in natty.


I think Mara should go 15-20 where grabbing a rotation big is a solid pick. Drafting Bigs top 5 they need to be special offensively and Mara good outcome is another center who can put up 10/8 in 26 mins. That is a good asset at 18, not so great of a pick 6th or 7th.

[King Ken]

I don't know with certainty with Mara, I just think he has had great pub the last 2 months that caused him to go from a borderline first round talent to a top 5 pick. That to me is a red flag and probably doesn't end up pretty for the team that drafts him.

Patrick Williams was another guy that went from borderline top 20 guy to going 4th overall.
Even Davion Mitchell got an incredible rise when Baylor won the natty- him as 15th pick was a lot more palatable as a good role player instead of going top 10.
Walter Clayton went 18th over Kasparas, Traore, Will Riley and Hugo. Will see how that ages.
Jarrett Culver went 6th after Texas Tech went to finals and lost to UVA and Deandre Hunter 4th
Zach Collins went 10th after Gonzaga lost in natty.


I think Mara should go 15-20 where grabbing a rotation big is a solid pick. Drafting Bigs top 5 they need to be special offensively and Mara good outcome is another center who can put up 10/8 in 26 mins. That is a good asset at 18, not so great of a pick 6th or 7th.

I think even in the 20s, that's a risk. He needs at least 3 full GLeague seasons.