Adam Jones to Baltimore for Erik Bedard?

[Ex-hippie]

It's done.

[Bow2Yao11]

Finally.


Good Luck to the Cubs or whichever team that wants to acquire Roberts haha..

He is Angelo's favorite player and the trade might take months to complete...

[Bow2Yao11]

Bedard press conference on the M's team site on mlb.com at 2PM PST.

[Ex-hippie]

Finally.
Good Luck to the Cubs or whichever team that wants to acquire Roberts haha..

They will announce a separate deal where Roberts is traded for Jeff Clement, Carlos Triunfel, Mark Lowe and Wlad Balentien. The Urban Zealot will immediately praise the deal as a trade of unknown prospects for another Proven Veteran.

[Bulltalk]

I think we overpaid by the amount of Butler. But it's done. If we didn't have at least Morrow, Aumont, and a couple other pitching prospects to hope for, then I'd be deranged about the trade. I just wonder how much Bavasi was bidding against himself, how much he got "conned up" in this deal?

Oh well. I'm excited about Bedard, no doubt. And I think our rotation looks pretty strong now, especially if Morrow can eventually become a decent if not good 3rd starter in it.

God help us if we have to worry about contract extensions with Bedard all year. Something better have been worked out with him in principle.

[Bow2Yao11]

Bedard quotes from press conference:


"Feels great to be an M"

"Safeco is a nice stadium, I think it's a pitcher's park" (It is) lol


"I won't have to face Ichiro anymore....a first pitch for a HR"

[Basketball Jesus]

I probably would have felt better about this trade if the Mariners had included Clement instead of Jones but, whatever.

[TheUrbanZealot]

Glad to see the FO was listening...

Bedard
Hernandez
Washburn
Batista
Silva

I'd still like either Wash or Batista upgraded, but all in all, this staff is going to eat up a lot of innings, and those 2 aren't going to be nearly as dismal as Weaver and Ramirez. Now if only Bavasi hadn't traded for Ramirez =/

Anyways, so pitching seems to be set. We can slide Ryan Rowland Smith, who showed major potential last year, and groom Morrow into replacing Batista (who is getting up there in age).

This is what I perceive will be our order, presuming we roll with what we have:

OF - Ichiro
SS - Betancourt (no one else really makes sense here)
3B - Beltre
OF - Ibanez
1B - Sexson
DH - Vidro
C - Johjima
OF - Wilkerson
2b - Lopez

I want to keep Betancourt near the bottom of the order because he is actually a decent 8th/9th hitter, plus there he'd allow Ichiro more RBI opps. We really need Beltre to build on last years progression, and Sexson to rebound to his form before he joined the M's. I project improvement from Beltre, but unfortunately, Sexson has gone the opposite direction, and I don't think he is going to be consistent enough. Ideally we'd bring back Junior, but realistically we are probably going to have to roll with one of our prospects (Clement). I look for Clement to ultimately take over the DH position while spelling Johjima. If Clement can continue the form he showed last year, replace Vidro to provide some pop, and if Balentien shows enough pop/defense in spring training, I'd be more content with Vidro and Wilkerson being clutch vets off the bench.

Looking at that lineup again, damn...if we don't get return to form years out of Belt and Sexson, we are going to be relying too heavily on our pitching staff...

Ultimately, I still think we made the right trade. We want to maximize Ichiro while we can. We can't wait for any prospects to develop. I'd rather have this GM gamble like he is than be content and play the development game...

[Rafael122]

Bedard isn't very talkative, and I wouldn't be surprised if the beat writers who follow the Mariners think he has some sort of attitude. It happened in Baltimore, but the truth is, the guy just doesn't want to talk a lot to the media. Enjoy him guys, I hate to see the O's trade him before he hits his prime but it's done. Originally it was going to be a 3 for 1 deal, but Bavasi didn't add 2 more players until the last week or so. What do you guys make of that? You think Mariner ownership pressured him into it?

[Basketball Jesus]

More than likely Bavasi panicked into making a deal that he thinks will save his job.

This is going to be one awful team in the next few seasons.

[Sweezo]

There's a difference between waiting for a prospect to develop and deciding to trade all of them for one player. We overpaid. It was foolish. Here's to 88 wins and a distant second place finish.

[TheUrbanZealot]

There's a difference between waiting for a prospect to develop and deciding to trade all of them for one player. We overpaid. It was foolish. Here's to 88 wins and a distant second place finish.

If anything, why not take a neutral stance? You are basing your presumption on people that haven't even played- whereas I am basing mine on someone that was going to win Cy Young (and probably still should have won it) before he got hurt.

Why always take such a dire approach? We should be excited to finally have a legit 1-2 power combo. I will take our 1-2 Vs. any 1-2 not named Beckett-Schilling, and even that 1-2 may not be as good as ours (factor age esp.).

I'm excited that not since Randy Johnson have we had a pitcher where we are virtually guaranteed a win with 4+ runs...

Ahh, but lest we forget the great Adam Jones who is on his way to Griffey-like #'s, Chris Tillman who in 2 years is the next Josh Beckett, Kam Mckolio who will make people forget about Randy Johnson, and... lol...well, you get the point.

Man, those players haven't even played dude. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of waiting on prospects. Look at all the can't miss prospects we've had that ended up sucking... Ryan Anderson (granted injuries helped), Joel Piniero, Clint Nageotte, Jose Cruz Jr., I would go on but I'll get tired. I don't want to go through that anymore. Unless those pitchers end up being 1-2's, really it's Adam Jones for Erik Bedard, and I will take that trade 99.9% of the time.

[Napoleon7]

I think we did overpay some, but this type of move needed to be made.

I expect to see Seattle compete now for the division title with LA.

[Ex-hippie]

Ryan Anderson (granted injuries helped), Joel Piniero, Clint Nageotte, Jose Cruz Jr., I would go on but I'll get tired.

What do all of those have in common? Oh yes: they were hot minor league prospects who didn't pan out in the majors. Right?

Here's a list for you: Erik Hanson, Bobby Ayala, Kevin Mitchell, Richie Sexson, Heath Slocumb, Mike Parrott, Jeff Burroughs, Tony Bernazard. Like you, I could go on but I'd get tired. So, what do they all have in common: they are all major league players who were good at one point and then weren't good at some other point. Which is the main issue you're still missing with this "Proven Veteran" hogwash you're spewing.

Here's another list: Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Edgar Martinez, Mark Langston, Alvin Davis, Phil Bradley, Dave Henderson, Bret Boone, Jason Varitek, David Ortiz, Derek Lowe, Omar Vizquel, most likely Felix Hernandez and most likely Adam Jones. Any thoughts on what those players might have in common?

[Bulltalk]

If there's one thing I've learned about TUZ on the Seattle forums is that he's enamored by the quick fix.

This trade may work out fine for us. We have a very good starting rotation, a solid bullpen, and a batting lineup that pains me to look at. I can't believe that we've got to depend again on Beltre, Sexson, and Ibanez for our middle of the order again. I hope Clement turns out to be a monster at the plate , and that Beltre surprises me by somewhat returning to his NL form.

I have little hope for Sexson, and I wince when he comes to bat with runners on base.

[Sweezo]

If anything, why not take a neutral stance? You are basing your presumption on people that haven't even played- whereas I am basing mine on someone that was going to win Cy Young (and probably still should have won it) before he got hurt.

Why always take such a dire approach? We should be excited to finally have a legit 1-2 power combo. I will take our 1-2 Vs. any 1-2 not named Beckett-Schilling, and even that 1-2 may not be as good as ours (factor age esp.).

I'm excited that not since Randy Johnson have we had a pitcher where we are virtually guaranteed a win with 4+ runs...

Ahh, but lest we forget the great Adam Jones who is on his way to Griffey-like #'s, Chris Tillman who in 2 years is the next Josh Beckett, Kam Mckolio who will make people forget about Randy Johnson, and... lol...well, you get the point.

Man, those players haven't even played dude. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of waiting on prospects. Look at all the can't miss prospects we've had that ended up sucking... Ryan Anderson (granted injuries helped), Joel Piniero, Clint Nageotte, Jose Cruz Jr., I would go on but I'll get tired. I don't want to go through that anymore. Unless those pitchers end up being 1-2's, really it's Adam Jones for Erik Bedard, and I will take that trade 99.9% of the time.

Sorry, I see no point in trading away that much talent for one SP when the offense and defense pretty much suck. Hope Bedard knows how to swing a bat...

[TheUrbanZealot]

If there's one thing I've learned about TUZ on the Seattle forums is that he's enamored by the quick fix.

This trade may work out fine for us. We have a very good starting rotation, a solid bullpen, and a batting lineup that pains me to look at. I can't believe that we've got to depend again on Beltre, Sexson, and Ibanez for our middle of the order again. I hope Clement turns out to be a monster at the plate , and that Beltre surprises me by somewhat returning to his NL form.

I have little hope for Sexson, and I wince when he comes to bat with runners on base.

It's not that I'm enamored by the quick fix, it's that I like a GM who is proactive, not complacent. Seattle has been in a funk since 2002 We haven't had a staff ace like Bedard since Randy Johnson. Speaking of which (hippie), do you remember Randy Johnson? Remember when he was wild and no one thought he'd become the consistent power pitcher he ended up being? Well, Bedard is about as close as we've gotten to him since...

Anyways, for as much as some people seem to imply we've overvalued Bedard, the same can be said on the flip side. We traded 4 pitchers at various classes, and 1 position player. Really, if you presume that Adam Joneswas going to be an every day OF, we traded Adam Jones + George Sherrill for Erik Bedard. Now that's not discounting the other pitchers, but we are talking about our CURRENT team.

Do you realistically think Adam Jones next year at the plate will have a bigger difference in our wins/losses than Bedard + Wilkerson? Keep in mind, Bedard is only a few years older than Jones, it's not like Bedard is ancient himself, plus he doesn't have much mileage. He's IMPROVED after his surgery, consistently, every year, so I don't get the notion that he still has something to prove (as far as his ability).

Quite simply, the Mariners lineup would look just as anemic if you inserted Jones instead of Wilkerson. There would be little variance in their numbers, with Jones probably striking out just as much, MAYBE a slightly higher average, and about the same amount of pop. Jones definitely won't be batting .300 next year, let alone .290, and his impact won't be felt nearly as much as some are implying.

Keep in mind, for every Bedard strikeout, that's one less out the defense has to worry about. That means less errors, better defensive #'s for the club all around. Bedard striking out 9/10 every 9 innings will make it so much easier for our team, not to mention confidence. It's like having an extra defensive player out there.

I really think Mariner fans are so used to being shammed in deals that they are already expecting the worse. It's crazy to say we are giving up too much for people that haven't even pitched in the majors yet! Why don't we wait to see them all become cy young award pitchers before making that determination. I mean really, even in a BEST case scenario- one of them becomes a #2, one a 3, and one a reliever, we are getting an ACE who is less than 30 yrs old, and we get to preview him. We already have young pitchers like Morrow and RRS who can take over starting roles down the line, and none of the players we gave up were going to supplant them (well maybe Tillman, but even he is no guarantee)...

[Ex-hippie]

Now that's not discounting the other pitchers, but we are talking about our CURRENT team.

Do you realistically think Adam Jones next year at the plate will have a bigger difference in our wins/losses than Bedard + Wilkerson?

Well, there's the difference between you and me. I'm not just talking about the CURRENT team. I'm talking about the current and future team. I'm quite sure that Bedard + Wilkerson will outplay Jones this year. I'll even say Bedard + Wilkerson this year is better than Jones + Sherrill + Mickolio. To me, the question is, what are the relative values of two years of Bedard vs. the careers of Jones, Tillman, Mickolio and Butler, and perhaps 2-3 more years of Sherrill? It's not a particularly close call.

I'm not at all doubting that Bedard is an excellent pitcher and has a chance to be the M's best since the Unit. I don't disagree with you on that point. I disagree that it's worth mortgaging the future for two years of that, especially when we're not exactly a team on the cusp of winning anything.

For the short term, there's no doubt this improves the team. Maybe the team will actually have a well-deserved 88-74 record over each of the next two years, which is an improvement over 2007. No playoffs, but an improved, competitive team. Is that worth trading away the potential core of the future?

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

As long as we are able to resign Bedard, I'm OKAY with this deal. I can live with it.

I was never too hot on Adam Jones, and giving up Tillman/Butler was more of an annoyance.

Bedard-Hernandez is sick though, so lets see what happens. If anything, those signings of Beltre/Sexson is whats hampered this team more than anything.


We have a **** GM. Just something we need to live with. Its frustrating as fans of the team, but whatever. That's life for ya.

[Sweezo]

Keep in mind, for every Bedard strikeout, that's one less out the defense has to worry about. That means less errors, better defensive #'s for the club all around. Bedard striking out 9/10 every 9 innings will make it so much easier for our team, not to mention confidence. It's like having an extra defensive player out there.

So, if one pitcher getting strikeouts boosts our confidence...does trading a player like Jones and starting a player like Wilkerson, a player whom Bedard wishes he could pitch against every at bat of his career, undo that confidence?

Can anyone convince me that a pitching style that leads to inflated pitch counts is better than a pitcher who uses his stuff to get groundball outs quick in the count?