CLE/DEN/CHA

[jbk1234]

Tyson isn’t on track to make huge money yet and Harden on a two-year deal would hedge against that best-case scenario for his development.

I'm not interested in trading for forwards who are poor defenders as they don't solve for any problem we have. I'm not interested in a guy like Braun who is significantly overpaid for what he brings for a very long time. I'd rather add that Kings second to Strus and see if the Bulls would send out an expiring Jalen Smith.

But really, the Cavs need to roll a hard six with an upside player to take the next step and I'd rather maintain as much roster/payroll flexibility as possible until the chances are spent.

I wouldn't be upset with op trade. I am a fan of Cam Johnson though. Good points about fit and defense, but the Cavs biggest defensive weakness is at the point of attack, specifically guard, and while Merrill has come a long way defensively he is at best average imo. The team would miss his floor spacing more than his defensive presence. And since he comes off the bench he doesn't impact the Mobley/Allen floor spacing with the starting lineup like a Cam Johnson in the starting lineup would. And imo, the team would get a better roi on Johnson than just stretch waiving Denis.
And for what Johnson brings he is not significantly overpaid. In fact, he is probably a bit underpaid. As mentioned Sochan is still available and would be a good addition but there is no possible way to put him on the floor with Allen/Mobley as a starter. He would be a situational role player along the lines of what Okoro should have been here.

I think that a month into the season, maybe less, it would become very clear that having no POA defender in the starting rotation is unsustainable, Tyson would start and Cam Johnson would become a very expensive player off the bench filling the same role as Merrill did (and the one we hope Hezonja will fill off of catch and shoot opportunities).

Moves like this should not happen so long as Harden is starting and Proctor is not presently positioned to start. It is what it is.

[toooskies]

I'm not interested in trading for forwards who are poor defenders as they don't solve for any problem we have. I'm not interested in a guy like Braun who is significantly overpaid for what he brings for a very long time. I'd rather add that Kings second to Strus and see if the Bulls would send out an expiring Jalen Smith.

But really, the Cavs need to roll a hard six with an upside player to take the next step and I'd rather maintain as much roster/payroll flexibility as possible until the chances are spent.

I wouldn't be upset with op trade. I am a fan of Cam Johnson though. Good points about fit and defense, but the Cavs biggest defensive weakness is at the point of attack, specifically guard, and while Merrill has come a long way defensively he is at best average imo. The team would miss his floor spacing more than his defensive presence. And since he comes off the bench he doesn't impact the Mobley/Allen floor spacing with the starting lineup like a Cam Johnson in the starting lineup would. And imo, the team would get a better roi on Johnson than just stretch waiving Denis.
And for what Johnson brings he is not significantly overpaid. In fact, he is probably a bit underpaid. As mentioned Sochan is still available and would be a good addition but there is no possible way to put him on the floor with Allen/Mobley as a starter. He would be a situational role player along the lines of what Okoro should have been here.

I think that a month into the season, maybe less, it would become very clear that having no POA defender in the starting rotation is unsustainable, Tyson would start and Cam Johnson would become a very expensive player off the bench filling the same role as Merrill did (and the one we hope Hezonja will fill off of catch and shoot opportunities).

Moves like this should not happen so long as Harden is starting and Proctor is not presently positioned to start. It is what it is.

I agree with you that we need a point of attack defender, but so far this front office seems to disagree with you-- or think Strus or Tyson or Merrill are the answers there.

[jbk1234]

I wouldn't be upset with op trade. I am a fan of Cam Johnson though. Good points about fit and defense, but the Cavs biggest defensive weakness is at the point of attack, specifically guard, and while Merrill has come a long way defensively he is at best average imo. The team would miss his floor spacing more than his defensive presence. And since he comes off the bench he doesn't impact the Mobley/Allen floor spacing with the starting lineup like a Cam Johnson in the starting lineup would. And imo, the team would get a better roi on Johnson than just stretch waiving Denis.
And for what Johnson brings he is not significantly overpaid. In fact, he is probably a bit underpaid. As mentioned Sochan is still available and would be a good addition but there is no possible way to put him on the floor with Allen/Mobley as a starter. He would be a situational role player along the lines of what Okoro should have been here.

I think that a month into the season, maybe less, it would become very clear that having no POA defender in the starting rotation is unsustainable, Tyson would start and Cam Johnson would become a very expensive player off the bench filling the same role as Merrill did (and the one we hope Hezonja will fill off of catch and shoot opportunities).

Moves like this should not happen so long as Harden is starting and Proctor is not presently positioned to start. It is what it is.

I agree with you that we need a point of attack defender, but so far this front office seems to disagree with you-- or think Strus or Tyson or Merrill are the answers there.

I don't think Tyson is THE answer but he is an answer as to where starting Cam is just skipping over the question on the test altogether. I don't think we'd be interested in Kuminga if we felt like our perimeter and transition defense was where it needed to be. It will be interesting to see what Altman, et. al. actually do now.

Mitchell is extended. LBJ went to Philly. The roster and/or coaching decisions going forward should reflect their judgment and their judgment alone. If the Cavs are going to trade for a Denver wing, I'd rather see them add draft capital, ship out Strus and Schroder, and trade for Watson. Don't do the Browns thing where you trade back into the back half of the first round to reach on a QB with a third-round grade.

[toooskies]

I think that a month into the season, maybe less, it would become very clear that having no POA defender in the starting rotation is unsustainable, Tyson would start and Cam Johnson would become a very expensive player off the bench filling the same role as Merrill did (and the one we hope Hezonja will fill off of catch and shoot opportunities).

Moves like this should not happen so long as Harden is starting and Proctor is not presently positioned to start. It is what it is.

I agree with you that we need a point of attack defender, but so far this front office seems to disagree with you-- or think Strus or Tyson or Merrill are the answers there.

I don't think Tyson is THE answer but he is an answer as to where starting Cam is just skipping over the question on the test altogether. I don't think we'd be interested in Kuminga if we felt like our perimeter and transition defense was where it needed to be. It will be interesting to see what Altman, et. al. actually do now.

Mitchell is extended. LBJ went to Philly. The roster and/or coaching decisions going forward should reflect their judgment and their judgment alone. If the Cavs are going to trade for a Denver wing, I'd rather see them add draft capital, ship out Strus and Schroder, and trade for Watson. Don't do the Browns thing where you trade back into the back half of the first round to reach on a QB with a third-round grade.

I don't see how the Cavs come up with the assets to pay Denver for the privilege of signing Watson and pay a third team to take on salary so we can get under the 2nd apron. More likely is we end up with Christian Braun.

[mg]

Cam is a high IQ player. He moves his feet and gets in the right spots defensively. I don't see him as this huge defensive negative especially playing next to Mobley. I think they are a really good fit. Now if you want a wing who is going to cover up for the Mitchell/Harden backcourt lack of defense than maybe go with a younger more athletic wing. I don't think that guy is Kuminga who is going to try and hijack the offense to get his touches/points.

[jbk1234]

I agree with you that we need a point of attack defender, but so far this front office seems to disagree with you-- or think Strus or Tyson or Merrill are the answers there.

I don't think Tyson is THE answer but he is an answer as to where starting Cam is just skipping over the question on the test altogether. I don't think we'd be interested in Kuminga if we felt like our perimeter and transition defense was where it needed to be. It will be interesting to see what Altman, et. al. actually do now.

Mitchell is extended. LBJ went to Philly. The roster and/or coaching decisions going forward should reflect their judgment and their judgment alone. If the Cavs are going to trade for a Denver wing, I'd rather see them add draft capital, ship out Strus and Schroder, and trade for Watson. Don't do the Browns thing where you trade back into the back half of the first round to reach on a QB with a third-round grade.

I don't see how the Cavs come up with the assets to pay Denver for the privilege of signing Watson and pay a third team to take on salary so we can get under the 2nd apron. More likely is we end up with Christian Braun.

Is Braun a better option than Tyson? Even if you think that may be the case, will Braun still be by the end of the year? These are just trades for the sake of trading that saddle us with contracts we can't afford, likely won't be able to move, and don't change the underlying dynamic. Again, I'd rather take a series of low-risk swings and hope a couple of them pan out.

[toooskies]

I don't think Tyson is THE answer but he is an answer as to where starting Cam is just skipping over the question on the test altogether. I don't think we'd be interested in Kuminga if we felt like our perimeter and transition defense was where it needed to be. It will be interesting to see what Altman, et. al. actually do now.

Mitchell is extended. LBJ went to Philly. The roster and/or coaching decisions going forward should reflect their judgment and their judgment alone. If the Cavs are going to trade for a Denver wing, I'd rather see them add draft capital, ship out Strus and Schroder, and trade for Watson. Don't do the Browns thing where you trade back into the back half of the first round to reach on a QB with a third-round grade.

I don't see how the Cavs come up with the assets to pay Denver for the privilege of signing Watson and pay a third team to take on salary so we can get under the 2nd apron. More likely is we end up with Christian Braun.

Is Braun a better option than Tyson? Even if you think that may be the case, will Braun still be by the end of the year? These are just trades for the sake of trading that saddle us with contracts we can't afford, likely won't be able to move, and don't change the underlying dynamic. Again, I'd rather take a series of low-risk swings and hope a couple of them pan out.

I would say that yes, even last year's version of Braun where the shot was off was better than Tyson or Strus. Braun's the better defender of all three of them and even when his outside shot isn't falling he's very efficient at the rim.

The Cavs have done a bad job retaining rotation talent (losing Jerome and Wade) and I'd prefer to turn Strus/Schroder into long-term value instead of letting more rotation pieces walk with our only backup plan being extraordinary development from 2nd round draft picks and guys no one else in the league wants.

[jbk1234]

I don't see how the Cavs come up with the assets to pay Denver for the privilege of signing Watson and pay a third team to take on salary so we can get under the 2nd apron. More likely is we end up with Christian Braun.

Is Braun a better option than Tyson? Even if you think that may be the case, will Braun still be by the end of the year? These are just trades for the sake of trading that saddle us with contracts we can't afford, likely won't be able to move, and don't change the underlying dynamic. Again, I'd rather take a series of low-risk swings and hope a couple of them pan out.

I would say that yes, even last year's version of Braun where the shot was off was better than Tyson or Strus. Braun's the better defender of all three of them and even when his outside shot isn't falling he's very efficient at the rim.

The Cavs have done a bad job retaining rotation talent (losing Jerome and Wade) and I'd prefer to turn Strus/Schroder into long-term value instead of letting more rotation pieces walk with our only backup plan being extraordinary development from 2nd round draft picks and guys no one else in the league wants.

The Cavs let Jerome walk after trading expiring contracts for Hunter and extending Okoro (who was then traded for Ball). The Cavs let Wade go after trading Hunter for another medium sized contract in Schroder (although I suspect Wade would've been retained if LBJ was a non-factor this summer). The problem with recycling these medium sized contracts as a tax team is that you make it harder to retain the rotation players you hit on downstream. I don't think Braun is worth that opportunity cost because if he doesn't bounce back, you're stuck again. With the aprons in place, I think it'll be easier to find guys who can replicate at least 80% of what Braun provides for taxMLE. If you believe his defense is good enough to warrant the added expenditure, we just evaluate him differently and that's okay.

[toooskies]

Is Braun a better option than Tyson? Even if you think that may be the case, will Braun still be by the end of the year? These are just trades for the sake of trading that saddle us with contracts we can't afford, likely won't be able to move, and don't change the underlying dynamic. Again, I'd rather take a series of low-risk swings and hope a couple of them pan out.

I would say that yes, even last year's version of Braun where the shot was off was better than Tyson or Strus. Braun's the better defender of all three of them and even when his outside shot isn't falling he's very efficient at the rim.

The Cavs have done a bad job retaining rotation talent (losing Jerome and Wade) and I'd prefer to turn Strus/Schroder into long-term value instead of letting more rotation pieces walk with our only backup plan being extraordinary development from 2nd round draft picks and guys no one else in the league wants.

The Cavs let Jerome walk after trading expiring contracts for Hunter and extending Okoro (who was then traded for Ball). The Cavs let Wade go after trading Hunter for another medium sized contract in Schroder (although I suspect Wade would've been retained if LBJ was a non-factor this summer). The problem with recycling these medium sized contracts as a tax team is that you make it harder to retain the rotation players you hit on downstream. I don't think Braun is worth that opportunity cost because if he doesn't bounce back, you're stuck again. With the aprons in place, I think it'll be easier to find guys who can replicate at least 80% of what Braun provides for taxMLE. If you believe his defense is good enough to warrant the added expenditure, we just evaluate him differently and that's okay.

Some teams find guys for the tax MLE or less, but those guys rarely choose Cleveland. Even in this contention window we've mostly struck out on even lower-tier targets, having to scrape the bottom of the barrel now with Hezonja/Kuminga/Sochan/whoever.

[gflem]

I would say that yes, even last year's version of Braun where the shot was off was better than Tyson or Strus. Braun's the better defender of all three of them and even when his outside shot isn't falling he's very efficient at the rim.

The Cavs have done a bad job retaining rotation talent (losing Jerome and Wade) and I'd prefer to turn Strus/Schroder into long-term value instead of letting more rotation pieces walk with our only backup plan being extraordinary development from 2nd round draft picks and guys no one else in the league wants.

The Cavs let Jerome walk after trading expiring contracts for Hunter and extending Okoro (who was then traded for Ball). The Cavs let Wade go after trading Hunter for another medium sized contract in Schroder (although I suspect Wade would've been retained if LBJ was a non-factor this summer). The problem with recycling these medium sized contracts as a tax team is that you make it harder to retain the rotation players you hit on downstream. I don't think Braun is worth that opportunity cost because if he doesn't bounce back, you're stuck again. With the aprons in place, I think it'll be easier to find guys who can replicate at least 80% of what Braun provides for taxMLE. If you believe his defense is good enough to warrant the added expenditure, we just evaluate him differently and that's okay.

Some teams find guys for the tax MLE or less, but those guys rarely choose Cleveland. Even in this contention window we've mostly struck out on even lower-tier targets, having to scrape the bottom of the barrel now with Hezonja/Kuminga/Sochan/whoever.

I think the team is in a position of having to find a team at the 2nd apron and pick off a player that said team would struggle to find a way to keep. That's a tough needle to thread as other teams are trying as well. I mean Watson may be available but Denver really doesn't want to move him and he may take the QO and bolt for nothing after next season. Would an expiring Struss, Merrill and our next available first do the trick? Probably not, and would the team or its fans here even want to make that kind of move?
As for Braun, I like his game but not a $27 mil per. I think Denver would have to take Struss, Dennis and pay some decent draft capital to even pick up the phone imo.