Mobley to MEM

[Mavrelous]

OP doesnt specify which firsts is available. I have it worth about a FRP less than the JJJ package utah paid

I have Edey > LAL 27 1st + Claytron, and the 2 1sts are equal, so it really comes down to the valuation of Edey.

And the inclusion of Grant's contract instead of Konchar's/space. Then it just comes down to the other picks. The JJJ deal also included a "best of Cle/Min/Uta 1st" in 2027 and a Phoenix unprotected 2031 1st, which could be viewed as VERY valuable.

Probably eye of the beholder stuff? I think the JJJ trade was a little more, but I also think Cleveland is further from the edge of needing to "start over", so motivation was definitely more in Memphis's corner than Cleveland's?

Definitely, I don't think the deal is good for CLE because of timing, but on value, make these 2 picks the 2 picks from JJJ trade and I think thr values are very close.

[Scoot McGroot]

I have Edey > LAL 27 1st + Claytron, and the 2 1sts are equal, so it really comes down to the valuation of Edey.

And the inclusion of Grant's contract instead of Konchar's/space. Then it just comes down to the other picks. The JJJ deal also included a "best of Cle/Min/Uta 1st" in 2027 and a Phoenix unprotected 2031 1st, which could be viewed as VERY valuable.

Probably eye of the beholder stuff? I think the JJJ trade was a little more, but I also think Cleveland is further from the edge of needing to "start over", so motivation was definitely more in Memphis's corner than Cleveland's?

Definitely, I don't think the deal is good for CLE because of timing, but on value, make these 2 picks the 2 picks from JJJ trade and I think thr values are very close.

Yeah, definitely somewhere in the "neighborhood". Just not right timing/fit....

[jbk1234]

JJJ is better offensively, but that the ballpark of value, OP isn't far off that value.

OP doesnt specify which firsts is available. I have it worth about a FRP less than the JJJ package utah paid

I have Edey > LAL 27 1st + Claytron, and the 2 1sts are equal, so it really comes down to the valuation of Edey.

I'm not sure I project Edey as a full-time starting center on a good team. You're locked into a drop coverage scheme and he's a real liability in the high PNR against guards who can shoot and/or teams that can run. That's before you get into whether he can stay on the floor in a playoff series without fouling out. I don't think he warrants building a team around and you kind of have to if you're going to make it work.

[Mavrelous]

OP doesnt specify which firsts is available. I have it worth about a FRP less than the JJJ package utah paid

I have Edey > LAL 27 1st + Claytron, and the 2 1sts are equal, so it really comes down to the valuation of Edey.

I'm not sure I project Edey as a full-time starting center on a good team. You're locked into a drop coverage scheme and he's a real liability in the high PNR against guards who can shoot and/or teams that can run. That's before you get into whether he can stay on the floor in a playoff series without fouling out. I don't think he warrants building a team around and you kind of have to if you're going to make it work.

Still, I value him over 1st from what projects to be a good team and late 1st level prospect.
No one should build around Edey, he's not that kind of player.

[jbk1234]

I have Edey > LAL 27 1st + Claytron, and the 2 1sts are equal, so it really comes down to the valuation of Edey.

I'm not sure I project Edey as a full-time starting center on a good team. You're locked into a drop coverage scheme and he's a real liability in the high PNR against guards who can shoot and/or teams that can run. That's before you get into whether he can stay on the floor in a playoff series without fouling out. I don't think he warrants building a team around and you kind of have to if you're going to make it work.

Still, I value him over 1st from what projects to be a good team and late 1st level prospect.
No one should build around Edey, he's not that kind of player.

And the reason I think the value offered is really poor is that not a single player offered is one the Cavs would substantially value. Grant is likely negative value. Even the picks are being oversold tbh. If the 27 pick turns out to be the Jazz pick, as seems very likely, it cannot be top-3 by rule. I have no reason to believe the Suns will be worse next season than they were last season. They've got the core of that roster locked up and Ott is going to continue to coach that team to defend aggressively.

[Godaddycurse]

I'm not sure I project Edey as a full-time starting center on a good team. You're locked into a drop coverage scheme and he's a real liability in the high PNR against guards who can shoot and/or teams that can run. That's before you get into whether he can stay on the floor in a playoff series without fouling out. I don't think he warrants building a team around and you kind of have to if you're going to make it work.

Still, I value him over 1st from what projects to be a good team and late 1st level prospect.
No one should build around Edey, he's not that kind of player.

And the reason I think the value offered is really poor is that not a single player offered is one the Cavs would substantially value. Grant is likely negative value. Even the picks are being oversold tbh. If the 27 pick turns out to be the Jazz pick, as seems very likely, it cannot be top-3 by rule. I have no reason to believe the Suns will be worse next season than they were last season. They've got the core of that roster locked up and Ott is going to continue to coach that team to defend aggressively.

Suns pick is 2031, not next year

[Mavrelous]

I'm not sure I project Edey as a full-time starting center on a good team. You're locked into a drop coverage scheme and he's a real liability in the high PNR against guards who can shoot and/or teams that can run. That's before you get into whether he can stay on the floor in a playoff series without fouling out. I don't think he warrants building a team around and you kind of have to if you're going to make it work.

Still, I value him over 1st from what projects to be a good team and late 1st level prospect.
No one should build around Edey, he's not that kind of player.

And the reason I think the value offered is really poor is that not a single player offered is one the Cavs would substantially value. Grant is likely negative value. Even the picks are being oversold tbh. If the 27 pick turns out to be the Jazz pick, as seems very likely, it cannot be top-3 by rule. I have no reason to believe the Suns will be worse next season than they were last season. They've got the core of that roster locked up and Ott is going to continue to coach that team to defend aggressively.

The point is that this is JJJ level return, which is Mobley's value, and I see no reason Mobley should fetch more, JJJ is much more proven for longer, Mobley had 1 season worthy of max money in 5 years...

[jbk1234]

Still, I value him over 1st from what projects to be a good team and late 1st level prospect.
No one should build around Edey, he's not that kind of player.

And the reason I think the value offered is really poor is that not a single player offered is one the Cavs would substantially value. Grant is likely negative value. Even the picks are being oversold tbh. If the 27 pick turns out to be the Jazz pick, as seems very likely, it cannot be top-3 by rule. I have no reason to believe the Suns will be worse next season than they were last season. They've got the core of that roster locked up and Ott is going to continue to coach that team to defend aggressively.

Suns pick is 2031, not next year

Oh, so a pick that conveys five years from now, after Booker's contract has run its course and Beal's dead cap has dropped off the Suns books.

[jbk1234]

Still, I value him over 1st from what projects to be a good team and late 1st level prospect.
No one should build around Edey, he's not that kind of player.

And the reason I think the value offered is really poor is that not a single player offered is one the Cavs would substantially value. Grant is likely negative value. Even the picks are being oversold tbh. If the 27 pick turns out to be the Jazz pick, as seems very likely, it cannot be top-3 by rule. I have no reason to believe the Suns will be worse next season than they were last season. They've got the core of that roster locked up and Ott is going to continue to coach that team to defend aggressively.

The point is that this is JJJ level return, which is Mobley's value, and I see no reason Mobley should fetch more, JJJ is much more proven for longer, Mobley had 1 season worthy of max money in 5 years...

I have this offer as measurably worse than what JJJ returned based on Grant's inclusion alone, but that aside JJJ has missed a lot of games over the course his career and is a very poor rebounder for his size. Mobley comes close to doubling him here and don't understand why fans handwave away this very serious flaw in JJJ's game. He doesn't have near the assists Mobley has (Mobley doubles him up here). JJJ's struggled to stay on the floor in the playoffs without getting into foul trouble (advantage Mobley). Mobley runs the floor better on both ends. JJJ doesn't like to play the 5 and is much more comfortable out of the 4. Mobley is fine playing the 5, and did against both Orlando and the Celtics after Allen got hurt, but is admittedly better out of the 4.

JJJ's had two seasons where he shot above league average out from 3 - out of eight. His career average from 3 is below league average (JJJ has an edge here but I question how impactful it is). JJJ has averaged more PPG in his 8 seasons than Mobley has in 5 (the numbers are close and Mobley came into the NBA very raw on offense). The one meaningful advantage JJJ has is that he's better at getting you a bucket off an entry pass. That's not nothing, but no one would would confuse JJJ with Hakeem. JJJ has yet to show that advantage is meaningful in the postseason. I think a lot of this comes down to the ascetics of JJJ's offensive game, and the fact that Mobley's offensive game is not ascetically pleasing, more than anything JJJ's *proven.*

[BlazersBroncos]

What about Strus, Schroder and some sort of pick for Jerami Grant?

MEM collects an asset, CLE adds a big forward that can shoot - think it really rounds their rotation out -

G - Mitchell / Harden / Proctor / Porter JR
G - Harden / Merrill / Meleek
F - Grant / Tyson / Hezonja
F - Mobley / Hezonja / Tomlin
C - Allen / Mobley / Bryant

[Mavrelous]

And the reason I think the value offered is really poor is that not a single player offered is one the Cavs would substantially value. Grant is likely negative value. Even the picks are being oversold tbh. If the 27 pick turns out to be the Jazz pick, as seems very likely, it cannot be top-3 by rule. I have no reason to believe the Suns will be worse next season than they were last season. They've got the core of that roster locked up and Ott is going to continue to coach that team to defend aggressively.

The point is that this is JJJ level return, which is Mobley's value, and I see no reason Mobley should fetch more, JJJ is much more proven for longer, Mobley had 1 season worthy of max money in 5 years...

I have this offer as measurably worse than what JJJ returned based on Grant's inclusion alone, but that aside JJJ has missed a lot of games over the course his career and is a very poor rebounder for his size. Mobley comes close to doubling him here and don't understand why fans handwave away this very serious flaw in JJJ's game. He doesn't have near the assists Mobley has (Mobley doubles him up here). JJJ's struggled to stay on the floor in the playoffs without getting into foul trouble (advantage Mobley). Mobley runs the floor better on both ends. JJJ doesn't like to play the 5 and is much more comfortable out of the 4. Mobley is fine playing the 5, and did against both Orlando and the Celtics after Allen got hurt, but is admittedly better out of the 4.

JJJ's had two seasons where he shot above league average out from 3 - out of eight. His career average from 3 is below league average (JJJ has an edge here but I question how impactful it is). JJJ has averaged more PPG in his 8 seasons than Mobley has in 5 (the numbers are close and Mobley came into the NBA very raw on offense). The one meaningful advantage JJJ has is that he's better at getting you a bucket off an entry pass. That's not nothing, but no one would would confuse JJJ with Hakeem. JJJ has yet to show that advantage is meaningful in the postseason. I think a lot of this comes down to the ascetics of JJJ's offensive game, and the fact that Mobley's offensive game is not ascetically pleasing, more than anything JJJ's *proven.*

When matching 30% cap deal, Grant's 2nd year ia minor, I don't put much value on it.
JJJ is a poor rebounder, but he's much better offensive player and is qctually proven at the 4, a thing I can't fully say about Mobkey.

[gswhoops]

What about Strus, Schroder and some sort of pick for Jerami Grant?

MEM collects an asset, CLE adds a big forward that can shoot - think it really rounds their rotation out -

G - Mitchell / Harden / Proctor / Porter JR
G - Harden / Merrill / Meleek
F - Grant / Tyson / Hezonja
F - Mobley / Hezonja / Tomlin
C - Allen / Mobley / Bryant

What kind of pick we talking here? I don't think Strus/Schroder are such bad contracts that they would justify giving up a 1st for Grant.

[Prospect Dong]

I think this is a year too early for both teams. Cavs need to take one more shot with this core, then thing about radical retooling/partial rebuilding. Griz need to see what they have in Edey/Coward/Boozer and then add another piece in the lotto - they're definitely not ready to compete this year.

I quite like Mobley's fit with Boozer, if he can add and maintain a little bulk. You get an elite defender to offset Boozer's lack of rim protection, and hopefully Boozer can unlock some easy buckets for Mobley, and vice versa. They probably still need a volume scorer in the backcourt/wing, but it's worth thinking about.

In a year, if he doesn't appreciably improve, I think Mobley is going to be in that class of "are we sure he's worth the max under the apron rules?" type guys. Positive value, but not even JJJ value, even if he's probably the better asset. I think Memphis did well cashing in on JJJ and especially Bane when they did, before the difficulty of keeping three max guys had really percolated through the league.

[mcfly1204]

What about Strus, Schroder and some sort of pick for Jerami Grant?

MEM collects an asset, CLE adds a big forward that can shoot - think it really rounds their rotation out -

G - Mitchell / Harden / Proctor / Porter JR
G - Harden / Merrill / Meleek
F - Grant / Tyson / Hezonja
F - Mobley / Hezonja / Tomlin
C - Allen / Mobley / Bryant

What kind of pick we talking here? I don't think Strus/Schroder are such bad contracts that they would justify giving up a 1st for Grant.

So Cleveland is taking on more salary for Jerami Grant? I can't get past that aspect.

[gswhoops]

What about Strus, Schroder and some sort of pick for Jerami Grant?

MEM collects an asset, CLE adds a big forward that can shoot - think it really rounds their rotation out -

G - Mitchell / Harden / Proctor / Porter JR
G - Harden / Merrill / Meleek
F - Grant / Tyson / Hezonja
F - Mobley / Hezonja / Tomlin
C - Allen / Mobley / Bryant

What kind of pick we talking here? I don't think Strus/Schroder are such bad contracts that they would justify giving up a 1st for Grant.

So Cleveland is taking on more salary for Jerami Grant? I can't get past that aspect.

Yeah I didn't realize Strus and Schroder are both expiring. The pick is going the wrong way in that case.

[Scoot McGroot]

What kind of pick we talking here? I don't think Strus/Schroder are such bad contracts that they would justify giving up a 1st for Grant.

So Cleveland is taking on more salary for Jerami Grant? I can't get past that aspect.

Yeah I didn't realize Strus and Schroder are both expiring. The pick is going the wrong way in that case.

Also, Cleveland is matching at over 100% of their aggregation, so they'd be incurring a hard cap at the 1st apron, which means they'd have $19m combined to the 1st apron to re-sign Harden AND sign a required 14th player.

But mostly, I would just rather have Strus/Schroder instead of Grant? Especially considering the added flexibility of being able to sell one or the other off for cap costs or better salary matching flexibility later on. In addition to the whole expiring now. Grant is the better overall player, but I just don't think Cleveland needs MORE offense at the 3 spot. They probably need depth and defense?

[jbk1234]

The point is that this is JJJ level return, which is Mobley's value, and I see no reason Mobley should fetch more, JJJ is much more proven for longer, Mobley had 1 season worthy of max money in 5 years...

I have this offer as measurably worse than what JJJ returned based on Grant's inclusion alone, but that aside JJJ has missed a lot of games over the course his career and is a very poor rebounder for his size. Mobley comes close to doubling him here and don't understand why fans handwave away this very serious flaw in JJJ's game. He doesn't have near the assists Mobley has (Mobley doubles him up here). JJJ's struggled to stay on the floor in the playoffs without getting into foul trouble (advantage Mobley). Mobley runs the floor better on both ends. JJJ doesn't like to play the 5 and is much more comfortable out of the 4. Mobley is fine playing the 5, and did against both Orlando and the Celtics after Allen got hurt, but is admittedly better out of the 4.

JJJ's had two seasons where he shot above league average out from 3 - out of eight. His career average from 3 is below league average (JJJ has an edge here but I question how impactful it is). JJJ has averaged more PPG in his 8 seasons than Mobley has in 5 (the numbers are close and Mobley came into the NBA very raw on offense). The one meaningful advantage JJJ has is that he's better at getting you a bucket off an entry pass. That's not nothing, but no one would would confuse JJJ with Hakeem. JJJ has yet to show that advantage is meaningful in the postseason. I think a lot of this comes down to the ascetics of JJJ's offensive game, and the fact that Mobley's offensive game is not ascetically pleasing, more than anything JJJ's *proven.*

When matching 30% cap deal, Grant's 2nd year ia minor, I don't put much value on it.
JJJ is a poor rebounder, but he's much better offensive player and is qctually proven at the 4, a thing I can't fully say about Mobkey.

I guess my thing is what has JJJ actually *proven* in the postseason? That's what's driving this discussion. It just feels like we're measuring with very different yardsticks here. JJJ was horribly inefficient the last time he played in the playoffs. In fact, you could make the case that the 2025 first-round series was the reason Memphis decided to blow it up. Even if your looking at their career postseason sample size, you're getting same ppg, with worst rebounding, worst defense, and fewer assists with JJJ than Mobley. Mobley's team also repeatedly advanced further. You just keep repeating the word "proven," but the evidence doesn't back it up.

[toooskies]

I have this offer as measurably worse than what JJJ returned based on Grant's inclusion alone, but that aside JJJ has missed a lot of games over the course his career and is a very poor rebounder for his size. Mobley comes close to doubling him here and don't understand why fans handwave away this very serious flaw in JJJ's game. He doesn't have near the assists Mobley has (Mobley doubles him up here). JJJ's struggled to stay on the floor in the playoffs without getting into foul trouble (advantage Mobley). Mobley runs the floor better on both ends. JJJ doesn't like to play the 5 and is much more comfortable out of the 4. Mobley is fine playing the 5, and did against both Orlando and the Celtics after Allen got hurt, but is admittedly better out of the 4.

JJJ's had two seasons where he shot above league average out from 3 - out of eight. His career average from 3 is below league average (JJJ has an edge here but I question how impactful it is). JJJ has averaged more PPG in his 8 seasons than Mobley has in 5 (the numbers are close and Mobley came into the NBA very raw on offense). The one meaningful advantage JJJ has is that he's better at getting you a bucket off an entry pass. That's not nothing, but no one would would confuse JJJ with Hakeem. JJJ has yet to show that advantage is meaningful in the postseason. I think a lot of this comes down to the ascetics of JJJ's offensive game, and the fact that Mobley's offensive game is not ascetically pleasing, more than anything JJJ's *proven.*

When matching 30% cap deal, Grant's 2nd year ia minor, I don't put much value on it.
JJJ is a poor rebounder, but he's much better offensive player and is qctually proven at the 4, a thing I can't fully say about Mobkey.

I guess my thing is what has JJJ actually *proven* in the postseason? That's what's driving this discussion. It just feels like we're measuring with very different yardsticks here. JJJ was horribly inefficient the last time he played in the playoffs. In fact, you could make the case that the 2025 first-round series was the reason Memphis decided to blow it up. Even if your looking at their career postseason sample size, you're getting same ppg, with worst rebounding, worst defense, and fewer assists with JJJ than Mobley. Mobley's team also repeatedly advanced further. You just keep repeating the word "proven," but the evidence doesn't back it up.

And JJJ’s seasons scoring over 20 points a game have been on injury-riddled Memphis teams with their leading scoring mostly absent, and he’s still only scoring two buckets a game more than Mobley.

And JJJ’s defense has degraded significantly from his DPOY season.

[Mavrelous]

I have this offer as measurably worse than what JJJ returned based on Grant's inclusion alone, but that aside JJJ has missed a lot of games over the course his career and is a very poor rebounder for his size. Mobley comes close to doubling him here and don't understand why fans handwave away this very serious flaw in JJJ's game. He doesn't have near the assists Mobley has (Mobley doubles him up here). JJJ's struggled to stay on the floor in the playoffs without getting into foul trouble (advantage Mobley). Mobley runs the floor better on both ends. JJJ doesn't like to play the 5 and is much more comfortable out of the 4. Mobley is fine playing the 5, and did against both Orlando and the Celtics after Allen got hurt, but is admittedly better out of the 4.

JJJ's had two seasons where he shot above league average out from 3 - out of eight. His career average from 3 is below league average (JJJ has an edge here but I question how impactful it is). JJJ has averaged more PPG in his 8 seasons than Mobley has in 5 (the numbers are close and Mobley came into the NBA very raw on offense). The one meaningful advantage JJJ has is that he's better at getting you a bucket off an entry pass. That's not nothing, but no one would would confuse JJJ with Hakeem. JJJ has yet to show that advantage is meaningful in the postseason. I think a lot of this comes down to the ascetics of JJJ's offensive game, and the fact that Mobley's offensive game is not ascetically pleasing, more than anything JJJ's *proven.*

When matching 30% cap deal, Grant's 2nd year ia minor, I don't put much value on it.
JJJ is a poor rebounder, but he's much better offensive player and is qctually proven at the 4, a thing I can't fully say about Mobkey.

I guess my thing is what has JJJ actually *proven* in the postseason? That's what's driving this discussion. It just feels like we're measuring with very different yardsticks here. JJJ was horribly inefficient the last time he played in the playoffs. In fact, you could make the case that the 2025 first-round series was the reason Memphis decided to blow it up. Even if your looking at their career postseason sample size, you're getting same ppg, with worst rebounding, worst defense, and fewer assists with JJJ than Mobley. Mobley's team also repeatedly advanced further. You just keep repeating the word "proven," but the evidence doesn't back it up.

Neither player is proven in the post season, Cavs have been very undewhelming also and Mobely as 4 is part of the challenge in their roster build, but specifically, using single series against the best defense in history, where the numbers are clear outliers, and with all the problems that team had isn't a good use of stats to present as evidence.
I am not a big JJJ fan and I criticized the Jazz for the target, but he has been the 2nd best player on a very good western PO team for , arguabely the best, he has a defined position that he fills almost perfectly (sans the rebounding).

[jbk1234]

When matching 30% cap deal, Grant's 2nd year ia minor, I don't put much value on it.
JJJ is a poor rebounder, but he's much better offensive player and is qctually proven at the 4, a thing I can't fully say about Mobkey.

I guess my thing is what has JJJ actually *proven* in the postseason? That's what's driving this discussion. It just feels like we're measuring with very different yardsticks here. JJJ was horribly inefficient the last time he played in the playoffs. In fact, you could make the case that the 2025 first-round series was the reason Memphis decided to blow it up. Even if your looking at their career postseason sample size, you're getting same ppg, with worst rebounding, worst defense, and fewer assists with JJJ than Mobley. Mobley's team also repeatedly advanced further. You just keep repeating the word "proven," but the evidence doesn't back it up.

Neither player is proven in the post season, Cavs have been very undewhelming also and Mobely as 4 is part of the challenge in their roster build, but specifically, using single series against the best defense in history, where the numbers are clear outliers, and with all the problems that team had isn't a good use of stats to present as evidence.
I am not a big JJJ fan and I criticized the Jazz for the target, but he has been the 2nd best player on a very good western PO team for , arguabely the best, he has a defined position that he fills almost perfectly (sans the rebounding).

I mean the Cavs haven't lost in the first round since Mitchell's first season when we gutted the roster to acquire Mitchell. They suffered serious injuries to key players before losing the eventual champs (or in the Pacers case the team that lost to OKC in 7 after Hali blew out his Achilles) in the second round. They just made it to the ECF. Yes, they got swept by the the Knicks, but the Spurs were lucky to win a game against the Knicks in the Finals. That series never felt like a series either.

The only way you can view the Cavs as "very underwhelming" in the playoffs is if you have yet to adjust your West versus East priors based on the last three playoff runs. The Cavs just beat a 60-win team in the second round.

Also, JJJ's the ideal PF except for rebounding is a heck of a qualifier.