DET/UTA/DAL - The Key to get Kyrie to DET

[bkohler]

DET sends: John Collins, Duncan Robinson, 2028 1st
DAL sends: Kyrie Irving ($39.5m), 2028 1st
UTA sends: Keyonte George, Brice Sensabaugh

DET gets: Irving, Sensabaugh
DAL gets: George, Collins
UTA gets: Robinson, 2028 DET 1st, 2028 DAL 1st

Why for DET: A second creator next to Cade gives DET an opportunity to push some pieces into the middle of the table while still keeping a lot of flexibility for the future. Sure, Robinson and Collins are rotation players, but not irreplaceable ones. Sensibaugh could audition for Duncan's minutes ans Ausar could slide up to the 4 in certain lines ups when needed.

Why for DAL: Keyonte is a premier young guard on a decent extension who would match Flaggs timeline. Lots of the same virtues of Kyrie just a decade younger.

Why for UTA: Give the keys entirely to DP.

I'm sure there are things I'm not seeing, but it seemed decent from all sides I could see. I can't say for sure until Jan 15th.

[tmorgan]

I want Kyrie, but…

We can’t get even smaller. We’re already struggling with bigs. I know Duren will be back eventually, but he only solves the rebounding issue, not the defensive size issue. Ausar can’t be our starting four, it’s a waste of his abilities on both ends.

Now if we could pair this with another trade for a legit starting 4 that’s better than Collins, I’m listening. Problem is, he’d need to be pretty inexpensive while still pretty good. That’s hard.

[Texas Chuck]

I mean the key is Kyrie going to Dallas and saying I want to go to Detroit at which point Dallas would work out a deal directly with Detroit.

But here they get worse on the court and instead of getting assets back for Kryie, they pay for George? No thanks. Utah isn't making this deal better so let's remove them.

Compensation would be easy because Detroit has their picks so figure out what Kyrie is worth. Salary matching? I'll leave that question to Detroit fans. Problem is there will be some pain on the court to match the money. They'd have to weigh the pros and cons.

[bkohler]

I mean the key is Kyrie going to Dallas and saying I want to go to Detroit at which point Dallas would work out a deal directly with Detroit.

But here they get worse on the court and instead of getting assets back for Kryie, they pay for George? No thanks. Utah isn't making this deal better so let's remove them.

Compensation would be easy because Detroit has their picks so figure out what Kyrie is worth. Salary matching? I'll leave that question to Detroit fans. Problem is there will be some pain on the court to match the money. They'd have to weigh the pros and cons.

I respectfully completely disagree, my real goal of this was to unite Flagg and Key as I think he'd be the ideal running mate for Flagg long term.

[Texas Chuck]

I mean the title of the thread is about Kyrie to Detroit.

Now I know the title should have been George to Dallas, how do I get the value I want for Utah? Gotcha. Well I don't see Dallas having any interest in paying to downgrade from Kyrie to George just so they can say they are younger. I think its essentially a non-starter from the Dallas end. They love Kyrie.

edit: I want to be clear, I don't expect every to agree with Dallas in their commitment to him, but every bit of reporting is confirming they won't even take calls. Kyrie just spoke to the team to just block out the noise that they are in this together.

And I get the logic of a team built around a 19 year old. But one of the ways bad teams stay bad is downgrading in talent in the name of youth. Especially a team already with an asset deficit spending more of those precious few assets to be worse on the court for the next couple of years at minimum?

Look around at how many guys are playing at very high levels in their mid to late 30's now. Even small guards which people use to treat as the exception ignoring guys like Stockton and Nash conveniently. I think if you wanted Dallas to add assets to Kyrie for a young co-star, you need to be able to sell them also on an upgrade. This isn't close to that though.

[tmorgan]

I’m not sure anyone is an ideal fit with Keyonte, but it certainly isn’t Cooper.

Cooper creates a large portion of his own offense (about 60% of 2’s and 30% of 3’s, the latter being about 1/5 of his shots). Keyonte’s obviously a good offensive player, but he’s just a less-efficient Kyrie with worse defense.

Maximizing Keyonte is, I dunno, Rudy Gobert. A guy that covers his weak defense and needs to be spoon fed buckets. Kessler, ironically, also kinda qualifies.

[Billl]

The kyrie to Detroit ship has sailed. We just don’t have the matching salaries to do this without Collins. And he’s the only pf on the roster.

[giberish]

The kyrie to Detroit ship has sailed. We just don’t have the matching salaries to do this without Collins. And he’s the only pf on the roster.

It's not like Dallas needs or wants a PF in return anyways.

[tmorgan]

The kyrie to Detroit ship has sailed. We just don’t have the matching salaries to do this without Collins. And he’s the only pf on the roster.

It's not like Dallas needs or wants a PF in return anyways.

Right, but still gotta get within 8m of matching salaries. We’d really have to gut our bench to get there.

[bkohler]

I mean the title of the thread is about Kyrie to Detroit.

Now I know the title should have been George to Dallas, how do I get the value I want for Utah? Gotcha. Well I don't see Dallas having any interest in paying to downgrade from Kyrie to George just so they can say they are younger. I think its essentially a non-starter from the Dallas end. They love Kyrie.

edit: I want to be clear, I don't expect every to agree with Dallas in their commitment to him, but every bit of reporting is confirming they won't even take calls. Kyrie just spoke to the team to just block out the noise that they are in this together.

And I get the logic of a team built around a 19 year old. But one of the ways bad teams stay bad is downgrading in talent in the name of youth. Especially a team already with an asset deficit spending more of those precious few assets to be worse on the court for the next couple of years at minimum?

Look around at how many guys are playing at very high levels in their mid to late 30's now. Even small guards which people use to treat as the exception ignoring guys like Stockton and Nash conveniently. I think if you wanted Dallas to add assets to Kyrie for a young co-star, you need to be able to sell them also on an upgrade. This isn't close to that though.

Sorry, I tried to be clever with KEY and Kyrie in the same line; it didn't come through very well, apparently.

[SkyHook]

I mean the title of the thread is about Kyrie to Detroit.

Now I know the title should have been George to Dallas, how do I get the value I want for Utah? Gotcha. Well I don't see Dallas having any interest in paying to downgrade from Kyrie to George just so they can say they are younger. I think its essentially a non-starter from the Dallas end. They love Kyrie.

edit: I want to be clear, I don't expect every to agree with Dallas in their commitment to him, but every bit of reporting is confirming they won't even take calls. Kyrie just spoke to the team to just block out the noise that they are in this together.

And I get the logic of a team built around a 19 year old. But one of the ways bad teams stay bad is downgrading in talent in the name of youth. Especially a team already with an asset deficit spending more of those precious few assets to be worse on the court for the next couple of years at minimum?

Look around at how many guys are playing at very high levels in their mid to late 30's now. Even small guards which people use to treat as the exception ignoring guys like Stockton and Nash conveniently. I think if you wanted Dallas to add assets to Kyrie for a young co-star, you need to be able to sell them also on an upgrade. This isn't close to that though.

Sorry, I tried to be clever with KEY and Kyrie in the same line; it didn't come through very well, apparently.

It wasn't subtle, hard to miss.

And you had me at "Utah sends Keyonte George", but I don't think he brings back multiple FRPs.

[jbk1234]

There's absolutely no way Dallas adds a first. That's just bonkers. If Keyonte George was worth two first round picks, the Jazz wouldn't be trading him. Maybe they give up the Pistons first, but it's just as likely that they cut the Jazz out.

[Godaddycurse]

Dallas owes its 2027 1st and cant trade 2028 as a result

[Kalamazoo317]

The kyrie to Detroit ship has sailed. We just don’t have the matching salaries to do this without Collins. And he’s the only pf on the roster.

Only way I could imagine it is if we also did a move like Rui Hachimura into our $15 million TPE

Detroit sends out:
Prince, 2nds, TPE (in separate deals) to Clippers
Collins, Joe, Holland, Okorie to Dallas

Clippers send out:
Rui to Detroit

Dallas sends out:
Kyrie to Detroit

Here Dallas would be doing it for cap flexibility and because they wanted to swap aging Kyrie for more team spacing and a couple of young prospects. Would they do it? No clue. I'm iffy enough on what we'd be sending out that I probably wouldn't have an appetite to add much if any draft capital, though.

We could also shift Joe to the Clippers with Prince if that's preferred.

[Vae Victus]

Clips also have DJJ, BroLo, and Dunn available to trade as well. Any package that has two of Rui/DJJ/BroLo/Dunn can be had for a prot FRP im sure. If DAL would like a high quality offensive guard to replace Kyrie, Garland is also available. He'd prolly look solid playing in support of Cooper Flagg, instead of trying to be a one man hero on a hapless LAC squad. Clips are definitely open for business in being a trade facilitator.