Cincinnati Reds @ Milwaukee Brewers, 4/9/08, 7:05 PM

[ACGB]

Is this a blessing in disguise?
No more bush?

Although knowing nedley we'll still see parra in the minors soon.

[trwi7]

Is this a blessing in disguise?
No more bush?

Again if McDung is still on this team over Bush I'm giving LUKE23 directions to Yost's house so he can burn it down.

[Wade-A-Holic]

Playing the hot hand between Kapler and Gross is NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, like playing Gwynn over Hart, Dillon over Weeks, or any of the other downright stupid analogies you just used.

Playing the hot hand means going with batters who are hitting better. So according to your logic whoever is swinging the bat better should play and whoever is not should sit. That's not specific to starters vs bench players and bench players vs bench players.

The reason that playing Gwynn over Hart backfired last year is all because Hart was supposed to be an every day player, so playing the hot hand over him completely took him out of his rhythm and he struggled for a good stretch of the season as a result.

No he played well when Ned actually pulled his head out of his ass and played Hart. He rode the "hot hand" Gwynn for a month taking playing time away from a player who is very likely to perform better than Gwynn. That is my point. Gross is very likely to perform better against right handed pitchers than Kapler.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

I NEVER said that playing the guy with the hot hand over another guy was the right thing to do under any circumstances. I only said it's the right thing to do in this instance. The fact that you're claiming I said things that I never said is sad.

I just said that taking those at-bats away from Hart hurt him for a big chunk of the season. That's the same point I just made...

Last year proved that EVERY game is important. Therefore, platooning an ice cold career bench player with a red hot career bench player when the only reason EITHER one is playing is because of a suspension AND an injury is the dumbest freaking thing I've ever heard.

Corey Hart is the type of batter who needs to play on a consistent basis to get into a rhythm. As a career bench player, it is Gross' job to come into games without seeing action on a consistent basis and deliver. If he can't do that, he shouldn't even be on the team. Gross' .091 average this season has ALL come against right handed pitching. Even Kapler is 2 for 4 against right handed pitching thus far.

So who has the better chance to produce right now? Given that right now is ALL that matters for these two players? Yeah...

[trwi7]

He rode the "hot hand" Gwynn for a month taking playing time away from a player who is very likely to perform better than Gwynn. That is my point. Gross is very likely to perform better against right handed pitchers than Kapler.

This is all you need to read. I'm done with this argument since you clearly don't get the point I'm making.

[trwi7]

Dave Bush was charged with five runs -- four earned -- in 5 2/3 innings Wednesday in a loss to the Indians.

Since Ned Yost just doesn't know how to use him, maybe Bush should go to the pen to make room for Yovani Gallardo. It happened all of the time last year that Bush would fade after five innings, and Yost has let him pitch poorly in the sixth in both of his starts this season. It was an even worse decision to keep him in tonight when they could have pinch-hit for him in the bottom of the fifth (he singled, but that's really not the point). Bush, who allowed two runs through five, gave up three singles and a sac fly before being pulled in the sixth. David Riske then came in and allowed two inherited runners to score. As a result, Bush's ERA stands at 8.44 after two starts.

Straight from rotoworld. They love them some Yost hating, too.

[Wade-A-Holic]

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This is all you need to read. I'm done with this argument since you clearly don't get the point I'm making.

I completely understand your point. I just don't agree with it. I think that, in this specific instance, where we're talking about two bench players who really should never see the field on a healthy Brewers team, that career numbers ought to mean nothing here. Kapler is swinging the bat well. Gross isn't. We're only buying time right now and trying to get wins.

Anyways, I am also done with this. The fact that I've been arguing and lobbying on behalf of Gabe Kapler is really pathetic. I should really do more productive things, like drinking.

[Wade-A-Holic]

Dave Bush was charged with five runs -- four earned -- in 5 2/3 innings Wednesday in a loss to the Indians.

Since Ned Yost just doesn't know how to use him, maybe Bush should go to the pen to make room for Yovani Gallardo. It happened all of the time last year that Bush would fade after five innings, and Yost has let him pitch poorly in the sixth in both of his starts this season. It was an even worse decision to keep him in tonight when they could have pinch-hit for him in the bottom of the fifth (he singled, but that's really not the point). Bush, who allowed two runs through five, gave up three singles and a sac fly before being pulled in the sixth. David Riske then came in and allowed two inherited runners to score. As a result, Bush's ERA stands at 8.44 after two starts.

Straight from rotoworld. They love them some Yost hating, too.

This we agree on for sure. Yost and Maddux can rave about his work ethic all they want, but his work ethic isn't changing the fact that teams see his pitches incredibly well after the second time through the lineup. Bush is twice the pitcher McClung is, which doesn't say much, but I would actually like Bush as a long reliever.

[trwi7]

I agree Bush would be great as a long reliever. He can actually go more than two innings without needing 70 pitches. McDung is horrible. I know they love power arms and everything but if you can't control any pitches then having a 97 mph fastball doesn't really help you.

Sheets, Suppan, Gallardo, Parra, Villanueva looks good to me until Parra reaches his innings limit. Then use Bush for a few starts. By that time it should be September and you wouldn't have to send Parra to the minors.

[Wade-A-Holic]

I agree Bush would be great as a long reliever. He can actually go more than two innings without needing 70 pitches. McDung is horrible. I know they love power arms and everything but if you can't control any pitches then having a 97 mph fastball doesn't really help you.

Sheets, Suppan, Gallardo, Parra, Villanueva looks good to me until Parra reaches his innings limit. Then use Bush for a few starts. By that time it should be September and you wouldn't have to send Parra to the minors.

Agreed, but that's far too simple and practical for Yost.

Somewhere Vargas was laughing his head off tonight watching the performances of Bush and McClung... Then he probably cried himself to sleep knowing that he got released in favor of both of them.

[Fort Minor]

I stoped watching after the 6th, but I heard Turnbow got booed pretty badly coming out of the pen. Was it really that bad? Has he cried about it yet?

[Wade-A-Holic]

I stoped watching after the 6th, but I heard Turnbow got booed pretty badly coming out of the pen. Was it really that bad? Has he cried about it yet?

I haven't heard if he's been whining about being booed or not, but that guy can't throw a strike to save his own life right now.

[trwi7]

I stoped watching after the 6th, but I heard Turnbow got booed pretty badly coming out of the pen. Was it really that bad? Has he cried about it yet?

They started booing after his first walk which was ridiculous.

[WEFFPIM]

Just noticed that WEFFPIM is the Dave Bush of our rotation so I expect a mediocre game thread.

Well, you're gonna get one. I got back from this back-alley abortion about a half hour ago and have class tomorrow morning, so I'm gonna make this thing now. Don't expect the glammer from my first game thread of the season than the ones I had in games past.

[Fort Minor]

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They started booing after his first walk which was ridiculous.

The walk or the booing?

[El Duderino]

I stoped watching after the 6th, but I heard Turnbow got booed pretty badly coming out of the pen. Was it really that bad? Has he cried about it yet?

Brewer players have a right to complain about all the booing in Milwaukee, it's ridiculous.

Yesterday the fans were booing Mota and Gagne. Today the were booing Bush and no surprise started booing Turnbow the second he walked a batter.

The team is playing well and is 6-2 along with being 4-1 at home, yet you'd think the team is the 0-7 Tigers the way fans jump on any pitcher that's struggling.

It happened often last year also, not just to Turnbow. If a pitcher would start to struggle, out come the morons in the crowd who start yelling at or booing that pitcher.

It wasn't just Turnbow either who complained about the booing, even though fans were bigger asses to Turnbow than anyone else. Almost any pitcher that *gasp* had a bad day and really struggled, the idiot brigade in the crowd felt the need to pile on the pitcher who already feels bad enough for letting his teammates down.

That's a great way to help out a pitcher in his home park that's already struggling, yell and boo at him.

[Fort Minor]

[quote="El Duderino"][/quote]

Do I think Milwaukee's booing is over the top? Absolutely.

Am I going to feel bad for the players? Not for a second. They can go wipe their tears in the pools of money they get a year.

So you'll excuse me if I think a player being paid 4 mil a year to throw one inning every couple games should shut up about the fans and focus on the game instead of whining to the media. THAT'S not going to help his game at all, and it certainly isn't going to help the fan reaction.

[El Duderino]

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Do I think Milwaukee's booing is over the top? Absolutely.

Am I going to feel bad for the players? Not for a second. They can go wipe their tears in the pools of money they get a year.

So you'll excuse me if I think a player being paid 4 mil a year to throw one inning every couple games should shut up about the fans and focus on the game instead of whining to the media. THAT'S not going to help his game at all, and it certainly isn't going to help the fan reaction.

It has little to do with feeling sorry for the players with me. My issue with all the moronic booing is it's a stupid thing to do to your own players.

We have pitchers on the mound generally in undecided games and way to often, if the guy is struggling, a ton of idiots in the crowd start yelling at and booing the guy. Yea, that should make the guy do better

Maybe if the dummies in the crowd had a brain, they might be able to figure out that possibly if they got behind the guy that already knows he's struggling that day without being reminded by booing, he might get back on track.

As for Turnbow, it's obvious the guy is sensitive and doesn't have that cold blooded calm attitude like some late inning pitchers have. Players aren't robots and all alike. So regardless if some fans wish Turnbow was traded, he is on the team.

What possible good for the team comes from morons in the crowd jeering and booing Turnbow anytime he's struggling in a game and even worse, booing him as he enters the game? You have a guy that everyone already knows can get rattled, yet in a close game where he is scuffling, many dimly lit bulbs in the crowd choose to rattle him even further by booing nearly every pitch that's not a strike.

Great job there "fans", that should really accomplish your goal of the team winning the game by piling on pitchers that don't have their best stuff at that moment. Really bright thinking there.