Phil Hughes

34Celtic · Post #1 » by **34Celtic** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:29 pm

Does anyone else think this guy should be sent back down to the minors in favor of GASP Igawa? I mean he doesn't seem to be able to go more than 5 innings right now. Since the Yankees decided to baby a guy who probably threw 160+ innings in high school throughout the minors, we're stuck with someone who fell apart last night in the 6th inning. Send the guy back down, let him develop his arm strength back to the point where he can last 7 innings and trade Betemit to bring in a starter.

Da big3 · Post #2 » by **Da big3** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:06 pm

no, but i do think that Ian kenndy should be sent down, hes not major league ready, and we need to aquire a good pitcher, like a Rich Harden type, but hes also injured, so its tuff...............

34Celtic · Post #3 » by **34Celtic** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:29 pm

I agree with Kennedy, what the hell is with this guys command? All we heard about him coming up is that he had excellent command. He doesn't

Post #4 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:02 pm

Great...lets come to conclusions about guys after 33 major league innings.

Do you think Greg Maddux has great command? He walked a ton of guys his first few seasons.
Randy Johnson's first 5 seasons consisted of 96, 120, 152, 144, and 99 walks.

Markos · Post #5 » by **Markos** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:35 pm

For every one of the guys who does turn it around, there are dozens if not hundreds who either don't make it in this league or at best have long undistinguished careers.

The fact that youre relying on something that might happen in 1-5% of scenarios for both hughes and kennedy, is quite ambitious

Da big3 · Post #6 » by **Da big3** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:45 pm

wait a minute. were is carl pavano? isnt he in the minor leagues, if he is why not bring him up, hes always injured yes, but has shown to be good when healty...........

Pharmcat · Post #7 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:58 am

i cant believe i was against trading these 2 clowns for johan...wow, shouldve jumped on that deal in a second

Post #8 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:36 am

The Kandi Man Rocks wrote:i cant believe i was against trading these 2 clowns for johan...wow, shouldve jumped on that deal in a second

priceless

Post #9 » by **HCYanks** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:05 am

Markos wrote:For every one of the guys who does turn it around, there are dozens if not hundreds who either don't make it in this league or at best have long undistinguished careers.

The fact that youre relying on something that might happen in 1-5% of scenarios for both hughes and kennedy, is quite ambitious

You're saying that two high-level prospects who through the bulk of their professional careers have dominated are suddenly busts with a tiny chance for a turn-around? In mid-April? Pass that killer pot this way, brah, it's 4/20. Share the love.

oakfanintheeast · Post #10 » by **oakfanintheeast** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:20 am

the sooner joba is in the rotation, the better for the yankees.

oakfanintheeast · Post #11 » by **oakfanintheeast** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:21 am

Ian Kennedy sucks. He's the definition of New York hype. And people thought they could land haren or santana as him being the biggest piece? prizeless.

Is he the righty version of all star t-clipp?

Post #12 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:10 am

oakfanintheeast wrote:Ian Kennedy sucks. He's the definition of New York hype. And people thought they could land haren or santana as him being the biggest piece? prizeless.

Is he the righty version of all star t-clipp?

Guys who are first round picks and win minor league pitcher of the year while going through all 3 levels of the minors and reaching the majors in one season are not a product of any hype machines, other than ones created by their own performances.

Markos · Post #13 » by **Markos** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:20 pm

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Guys who are first round picks and win minor league pitcher of the year while going through all 3 levels of the minors and reaching the majors in one season are not a product of any hype machines, other than ones created by their own performances.

could be that a guy just rides a very hot hot streak for a couple of months. Thats generally why players are seasoned in the minor leagues. It prepares them for what to do when (not if) they fail. Now he is going through that seasoning under the biggest spotlight in baseball while being known as the guy who held up the Santana trade. It will be especially tough for him and the fans if they have to look over at the mets if santana has a dominant year.

Post #14 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:47 pm

Markos wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

could be that a guy just rides a very hot hot streak for a couple of months. Thats generally why players are seasoned in the minor leagues. It prepares them for what to do when (not if) they fail. Now he is going through that seasoning under the biggest spotlight in baseball while being known as the guy who held up the Santana trade. It will be especially tough for him and the fans if they have to look over at the mets if santana has a dominant year.

I'm talking about Kennedy, who was never really the centerpiece of any trade. I've heard that the Twins wanted Hughes or Cano as the centerpiece, and the Kennedy reports were not true at all.

Any fans who expected Hughes and Kennedy to pitch as well as Santana this season were only fooling themselves. Hughes is going to turn it around and have a good year, I am very confident in that. He is going through an adjusting period. Last year hitters didn't know him so he was able to post very solid numbers as a 20/21 year old. Now they adjusted, so its his turn to adjust back. Not easy for a 21 year old and it will take time. Again, anybody expecting something different was only fooling themselves to begin with.

If you combine Hughes' and Kennedy's total innings in their MLB career, they equal just about one HALF season. Its going to take a lot more than a half season for these guys to develop, it will take years. And if people can't be patient then they have no business rooting for these guys.

34Celtic · Post #15 » by **34Celtic** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:15 pm

My whole arguement on these kids is that they shouldn't be brought up so soon after being babied through the system. Why bring up Hughes and let him loose after you limit him to basically 5 innings a start coming up through the system. Send him back down to AAA, let him work 7+ innings a start and bring him up when his arm is used to throwing that number of innings again.

Curmudgeon · Post #16 » by **Curmudgeon** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:37 pm

Hughes is aiming the ball. He's trying to be too cute. The kid has a live 95 mph fastball. Just throw the damn thing over the plate.

These young pitchers aren't being handled very well, and it's contributing to their problems.

Post #17 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:00 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Hughes is aiming the ball. He's trying to be too cute. The kid has a live 95 mph fastball. Just throw the damn thing over the plate.

These young pitchers aren't being handled very well, and it's contributing to their problems.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but just curious as to how you think they were midhandled. Do you think the Yanks are too cute when it comes to limiting these young kids early in their careers? Or something else?

Post #18 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:04 pm

34Celtic wrote:My whole arguement on these kids is that they shouldn't be brought up so soon after being babied through the system. Why bring up Hughes and let him loose after you limit him to basically 5 innings a start coming up through the system. Send him back down to AAA, let him work 7+ innings a start and bring him up when his arm is used to throwing that number of innings again.

Kennedy and Joba weren't babied in the minors at all, but that is because they were more seasoned and drafted out of college.

I agree about Hughes, though. He and the Yankees would've been better served if they let Hughes throw 7 innings per start and shutting him down in mid-August, as opposed to 5 innings a start and letting him pitch the entire season.

The way Hughes dominated the minors (not walking anybody or allowing anyone on base at all), 5 innings for him was 60-75 pitches per start. You can't expect a guy to do that for two+ years and suddenly be able to throw 95 pitches per start against much tougher major league competition as the youngest pitcher in the majors and be successful. That is another part of the learning curve that people ignore, and another thing that Hughes can only overcome through experience and repitition.

34Celtic · Post #19 » by **34Celtic** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:15 pm

And its not his fault at all, its the Yankees brass who brought it upon themselves.

Curmudgeon · Post #20 » by **Curmudgeon** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:36 pm

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but just curious as to how you think they were midhandled. Do you think the Yanks are too cute when it comes to limiting these young kids early in their careers? Or something else?

I think it's something else. I think the pitching coach and the catchers haven't been sending the right message. In particular I think the catchers have been calling too many breaking balls and changeups and trying to get these young guys to "locate."

You can see Hughes trying to think on every pitch. Screw that. Throw it over the plate at 95 mph and make them hit it.

I don't want to limit these young pitchers at all. You build arm strength by throwing pitches. I want Hughes to throw 250 innings even if he loses 20 games. But if you are going to lose 20, do it with your best pitch, not by throwing junk like poor Mussina, who has no choice at this stage of his career.