Miami Interested In Artest And Pietrus Again?

[KF10]

(The most important piece in the article):

"Speaking of which, I'm told by a reliable source that Miami remains very interested in Artest. The Heat are reportedly interested again in Golden State's Mickael Pietrus (read here). So just as was the case during the offseason, it seems the Heat are again deliberating between Artest and Pietrus as a means of saving their dreadful season. For the immediate future, I could see Artest having a far greater impact than Pietrus playing with Shaq and D-Wade.
Meanwhile, Kenny Thomas - who continues to simply do what Kings coach Reggie Theus asks of him but would certainly like being somewhere where he plays more than 12.6 minutes per game - could certainly be a part of any Mike Bibby/Artest deal as well, and the Heat's expiring contracts are certainly a solid starting point to any negotiations. That may be Thomas' way out, as Petrie hasn't pulled the trigger on any offers for that contract on its own in the last few years. All in all, these guys are going nowhere more than they're going forward right now."

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... rus_again/

[Ballings7]

"Deliberating", like they have an average possibility to get Artest... haha

Keep working on that seemingly elusive 3-way deal, chaps. If Miami can get one set-up, that's the only legit way to get something done. 3-way deals are tough to do, and who knows what would be involved.

Miami alone? As has been established, they just don't have the pieces. And if it was done with just the Heat, well, that's simply a bad move on this organization's part. You keep Ron Artest if Miami is just offering up their assets. Why give in to them now, if you didn't all those times before going to back June 2007? That's how it's gone so far, and I expect it to continue to.

Why this comes up again? No legitimate reason. Just what's been going on with Miami as a team, and what rumors and offers there were in the past, the same interest remains.

Neither Artest, or Pietrus (especially) are going to make Miami a lock for the playoffs. With Artest it certainly helps a lot, but with Pietrus? Helps just some.

Miami should just trade for a PG, a shooter, and sign Ruben Patterson.

[SacTown Kings]

I like that word "deliberating" as if the Heat hold the cards and the Kings have no say so. Let the Heat go after Pietrus so these rumors about them interested in Artest go away. If they are not giving us a 1st, Wright, expirings, and taking on Kenny then forget it.

[Ballings7]

They have a much, much better chance to get Pietrus. But it's actually been similar in being able to get Pietrus too, as the Warriors have declined their offers.

[deNIEd]

I think we might have to lower the values a bit, or be more creative. Cause it seems (according to this board) no team has enough value for Bibby or Artest (teams that want them). Which would mean we are justing letting them expire, which would be a waste.

I dunno.

[SacTown Kings]

I think we might have to lower the values a bit, or be more creative. Cause it seems (according to this board) no team has enough value for Bibby or Artest (teams that want them). Which would mean we are justing letting them expire, which would be a waste.

I dunno.

So what do you think their value is worth? There is still the other option of resigning them or when their contract is up do a sign and trade. Just because we are not dealing them right now for Miami and Cleveland's junk doesn't mean we are just letting them expire.

[Smills91]

I think we might have to lower the values a bit, or be more creative. Cause it seems (according to this board) no team has enough value for Bibby or Artest (teams that want them). Which would mean we are justing letting them expire, which would be a waste.

I dunno.

I don't do trades for the sake of trades. I do trades to improve the possibilities of this franchise. I refuse to lower a player's value arbitrarily just for the sake of making a move. If it doesn't improve the team...screw that idea. That's the same philosophy Petrie holds IMO too. If the Heat can't put together a package that at least remotely resembles strong value for Artest. If they can't do that, that's there problem, not ours.

[Ballings7]

Smills has it down.

[KF10]

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I don't do trades for the sake of trades. I do trades to improve the possibilities of this franchise. I refuse to lower a player's value arbitrarily just for the sake of making a move. If it doesn't improve the team...screw that idea. That's the same philosophy Petrie holds IMO too. If the Heat can't put together a package that at least remotely resembles strong value for Artest. If they can't do that, that's there problem, not ours.

Agreed. Too bad they (Heat/Cavs) dont understand that...

[deNIEd]

-= original quote snipped =-



I don't do trades for the sake of trades. I do trades to improve the possibilities of this franchise. I refuse to lower a player's value arbitrarily just for the sake of making a move. If it doesn't improve the team...screw that idea. That's the same philosophy Petrie holds IMO too. If the Heat can't put together a package that at least remotely resembles strong value for Artest. If they can't do that, that's there problem, not ours.

I agree, but that's not my argument.

There are only a select handful of teams that would trade for Artest or Bibby. There are virtually only two types of teams that would be interested in either player. A currently contending team or team looking to make a final push (Clev, Miami, Dallas, etc.) or a team looking to get rid of a much worse contract inreplace of Bibby or Artest's shorter deal. The second option, would not be something the Kings would be interested in.

Of the contending teams, there are those that already have a solid/better PG or SF. Bibby - Spurs, Utah, NJ, NO, etc.

Now, of the few teams that would be willing to trade for either player, they can only offer so much without making their team even worse.

Now the way Artest is playing currently, and if Bibby returns to his highest trading value, none of the possible trading partners have enough assets in bringing either player in.

What I am trying to say, very verbosely, is that if none of the possible destinations for Artest or Bibby has enough to obtain our players, than wouldn't we have to lower our price for any move to being possible at all?

I'm not saying lowering their price to just make a move, but instead lowering the price to make a move possible.

Say before Artest's value is
Ideal
Good young prospect, expiring contract, 1st round pick, removal of KT
but in reality the best a team could put together is
young prospect, expiring contract, 2nd round pick, removal of KT

Smills, in your eyes, are there even possible trades a team like Cavs or Heat can put together to make you happy? If they are willing to offer anything on their team as long as it improves them now.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

Miami has nothing to offer us. Nothing. (Cept the obvious). If you are gonna trade Bibby or Ron it needs to get us a expiering and a first, which Miami traded already.

Unfortunetly the only teams that seem to WANT Ron/Bibby don't have enough to offer/are NY and won't pony up to get the stuff.

[Ballings7]

Jason Williams and Ricky Davis are their expirings. But Davis and Williams are both going to want to play and get their oppurtunities, in their contract years. We already have Beno, Douby, Salmons, Garcia relating to their positions and minutes. Plus, we can keep Artest, which is superior.

Dorrell Wright - Intriguing young player, he's played well recently, but with Salmons, Garcia, and having the option to keep Ron - where, why? As well as being able to draft a young SF in the future.

Daequan Cook - I definitely like him, but again, no real place for him on the team.

Udonis Haslem - I love the guy's game as a complementary PF, but not for this team, obviously. His value has only gone up for Miami anyway, aside from it already being high before. He's been their 2nd best player this season, and top 3 in most reliable for them. Being 1A after Wade. #1 before Wade came back and started getting his legs and rhythm back.

Smush Parker - No.

After that it's mininum 1 year contracts for various young players.

Like said, no R1 pick available to trade for 2008. Because if it's out of the lottery, Minnesota gets it, and if it's not, then Miami gets it and they're not trading that away. In addition, can't trade 1st rounders back to back years. I think all that's right.

[Wolfay]

Why would we trade to be even worst off than we are now? Why would we lower our price to make a move that we didn't want to make in the first place? deNIEd, you're not making any sense at all. For everyone's sake, I hope you're not a logician.

"I'm not saying lowering their price to just make a move, but instead lowering the price to make a move possible." I'm no linguist, but didn't you just contradict yourself? You just said one thing, but then the opposite in the same sentence.

[SacKingZZZ]

At end of the day you have to take the best deal available. If the Kings are even interested in re-signing Ron (which I don't know if they should be) they shouldn't even look to trade him, nor will they be looking to anyway.

I think it's an all or nothing thing as to what Petrie wants to do. He either wants him back or doesn't want to assume the risk that comes along with signing Ron long term. Especially when there doesn't look to be any significant reward in doing so when compared to our current makeup.

[pillwenney]

Just something that popped into my head--maybe we could just use Davis's and J-Will's expirings. Trade for them and waive them to let them return to Miami. Of course this is assuming that Miami offers us something really nice to go along with that. Really for what I'm thinking about, Miami is a poor example. I should probably erase this paragraph because people are probably going to not get what I mean because I'm not being clear at all, but meh.

Point being that if an expiring player is valuable to a team (like a Ricky Davis), then I think we should look at the option of waiving said player and letting him return to the team.

[Ballings7]

Hopefully Miami or whoever, could do that with Kenny Thomas, as well.

[deNIEd]

Why would we trade to be even worst off than we are now? Why would we lower our price to make a move that we didn't want to make in the first place? deNIEd, you're not making any sense at all. For everyone's sake, I hope you're not a logician.

"I'm not saying lowering their price to just make a move, but instead lowering the price to make a move possible." I'm no linguist, but didn't you just contradict yourself? You just said one thing, but then the opposite in the same sentence.

Theres a big difference there.
Making a move to just making a move, would be accepting any trade that comes along our way. Whatever any team offers us, you accept. That would be wrong.

Like ballings just posted, Miami's best offer would still be under our ideal value for Artest and Bibby. Along with Cleveland, and most likely every other team looking to trade for Bibby and Artest.

The probelm with that is, if every team that wants our players, can't possibly obtain them due to our high value, then our players are worth nothing. If in the long run, the plan is to rebuild, and Artest/Bibby are used to help this rebuilding process, if that is the longterm plan, which most of us believe or hope, then having Artest/Bibby just expire does nothing for the team.

You make the best possible move, that is possible.

If you have a SUV thats worth 40k, but if the people who want a SUV only has 30k, your going to have to lower your price in order to sell your car. Otherwise, no one will be buying it. The people that have the money but doesn't want the SUV, won't be buying it. And the people that doesnt have enough money, but wants it, won't be able to either.

[Wolfay]

-= original quote snipped =-



Theres a big difference there.
Making a move to just making a move, would be accepting any trade that comes along our way. Whatever any team offers us, you accept. That would be wrong.

Like ballings just posted, Miami's best offer would still be under our ideal value for Artest and Bibby. Along with Cleveland, and most likely every other team looking to trade for Bibby and Artest.

The probelm with that is, if every team that wants our players, can't possibly obtain them due to our high value, then our players are worth nothing. If in the long run, the plan is to rebuild, and Artest/Bibby are used to help this rebuilding process, if that is the longterm plan, which most of us believe or hope, then having Artest/Bibby just expire does nothing for the team.

You make the best possible move, that is possible.

If you have a SUV thats worth 40k, but if the people who want a SUV only has 30k, your going to have to lower your price in order to sell your car. Otherwise, no one will be buying it. The people that have the money but doesn't want the SUV, won't be buying it. And the people that doesnt have enough money, but wants it, won't be able to either.

But the best move possible is to NOT make a move. We're not going to sell ourselves short, it's just stupid. Making those moves won't put us in any position to do anything better than we are now. And how is just letting guys expire bad? We get massive cap space to sign worthy free agents! Sure, it'll take a few years, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and veteran Kings fans should be familiar with patience.

The SUV analogy you used was just... not smart. A car's value doesn't fluctuate like a player's value does, and unlike a sports GM, a car dealer doesn't have the option of just keeping the car forever until the right deal comes.

And just to be clear, I don't put as much faith in the draft as you do. Superstars like LBJ come only once in a blue moon, and it's almost impossible to predict how a draft pick will perform in the NBA. Great teams are built through a combination of great signings, trades and draft picks, a la the Kings of the early 2000's.

[deNIEd]

But the best move possible is to NOT make a move.

The best possible move is doing nothing?

If...

And how is just letting guys expire bad? We get massive cap space to sign worthy free agents!

We are just going to let our players expire, than why would a Bibby/Artest + Thomas for expirings wouldn't be good? Or expiring + late pick.
If the end goal is just letting the players expire, then why does it matter which player expires. Whether it is Mike Bibby or Jason Williams. If all we want is the players to expire, then why not get something else as well. If Petrie is so great in drafting as everyone says he is (i'm not saying he isn't), then having an extra late 1st or 2nd round pick, how would it not benefit the team.

Rome wasn't built in a day

And Rome wasn't built by waiting.

The SUV analogy you used was just... not smart. A car's value doesn't fluctuate like a player's value does, and unlike a sports GM, a car dealer doesn't have the option of just keeping the car forever until the right deal comes.

The analogy might not have been the best one, but the point was, if the market doesn't have the price for the product, the producer has to lower his price inorder to sell. Basic economics. The buyer can only buy what it can afford. Argue this, and not whether or not a car's value fluctuates or not.

And just to be clear, I don't put as much faith in the draft as you do.

Yet, everyone believes Petrie will be able to draft/find that hidden gem of a player like a Boozer/Redd/Martin again.

Great teams are built through a combination of great signings, trades and draft picks, a la the Kings of the early 2000's.

We can't compare ourselves now to the Kings of 2000.
In the old Kings, we traded away our allstar player for a number 1 pick in Webber. The only way something like that works out, would be if we traded away Kevin Martin. Something the Maloofs, Petrie, fans all don't want.

[deNIEd]

Again the point is, if teams like heat and cavs are the only possible destinations for Bibby/Artest.

And we want a
good prospect/expiring/removal of KT's deal/mid 1st round pick
but the best possible offer either team can put together is
decent prospect/expiring/removal of KT's deal/2nd round pick

then we should lower our price, because we cannot possibly demand more, because the teams simply do not have it.

The seller can only charge as much as the buyer's have.