Did Paxson REALLY want Ben Wallace for $15 mil per?

[dougthonus]

I think that says more about our coaching staff than about Wallace or Paxson. There is most definitely a way to develop our players while giving both Wallace and Thomas PT. I don't think Noah should be an issue. He's a rookie and it should have been expected that he wouldn't get playing time. Gray was a surprise so we can't really be upset with the coaching staff being unprepared to give him minutes.

Why should Noah not play because he's a rookie when the Bulls play far better when he's on the court than Wallace and his production dwarfs Wallace's production? Especially given the fact that Wallace has basically played without effort or intensity for the vast majority of his career has a Bull. He's not even putting in the work. Unless we're playing against a guy who would just physically overmatch our other players repeatedly, there is no reason for Wallace to ever set foot on the court. He's flat out worse than probably every big man on the roster and on top of it he doesn't even put in the effort.

[Bulls_MIT]

I think that says more about our coaching staff than about Wallace or Paxson. There is most definitely a way to develop our players while giving both Wallace and Thomas PT. I don't think Noah should be an issue. He's a rookie and it should have been expected that he wouldn't get playing time. Gray was a surprise so we can't really be upset with the coaching staff being unprepared to give him minutes.

Why should Noah not play because he's a rookie when the Bulls play far better when he's on the court than Wallace and his production dwarfs Wallace's production? Especially given the fact that Wallace has basically played without effort or intensity for the vast majority of his career has a Bull. He's not even putting in the work. Unless we're playing against a guy who would just physically overmatch our other players repeatedly, there is no reason for Wallace to ever set foot on the court. He's flat out worse than probably every big man on the roster and on top of it he doesn't even put in the effort.

I very much agree. I can't believe he was the defensive player of the year 3 times.

[Bulls_MIT]

he's gone from the best to one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, for his size at least. I mean, small guards are scoring layups on this mope.

[Red Larrivee]

I think that says more about our coaching staff than about Wallace or Paxson. There is most definitely a way to develop our players while giving both Wallace and Thomas PT. I don't think Noah should be an issue. He's a rookie and it should have been expected that he wouldn't get playing time. Gray was a surprise so we can't really be upset with the coaching staff being unprepared to give him minutes.

Why should Noah not play because he's a rookie when the Bulls play far better when he's on the court than Wallace and his production dwarfs Wallace's production? Especially given the fact that Wallace has basically played without effort or intensity for the vast majority of his career has a Bull. He's not even putting in the work. Unless we're playing against a guy who would just physically overmatch our other players repeatedly, there is no reason for Wallace to ever set foot on the court. He's flat out worse than probably every big man on the roster and on top of it he doesn't even put in the effort.

The Bulls do not play better when Noah is on the court. Don't lose your mind. 15 Milllion is one reason why Wallace will step foot on the court. Do you actually think that Pax or whoever the coach is, is just going to bench him permanently? Wallace is an experienced veteran who knows what it takes to win. Yes he is on the decline, but you, I, and Paxson all knew that when he was signed by this team. Chicago is not going to make someone who got attention for this team, merchandise and basketball wise, sit. It's bad business both ways. Tyrus sitting right now, or Noah sitting right now is just tightening the rotation, so the experienced guys can dig us back out. Once we're out, I'm sure Tyrus and Noah, and whoever else will get more time. It's not hard at all to comprehend the situation.

If Skiles, Boylan, and Myers, are all basically doing the same thing, it has nothing to do with "oh there skiles-lite" "oh they don't know who the better player is" it has to do with trusting experience over raw-meat. Which everyone is going to do 99% of the time when a team is in a rough spot.

[dougthonus]

The Bulls do not play better when Noah is on the court. Don't lose your mind.

Noah has the 2nd best +/- on the team, and the best PER of any big man. This shows that the Bulls have been more effective when he is on the court. His high PER suggests that his production is part of the reason as well.

15 Milllion is one reason why Wallace will step foot on the court.

So if the Bulls payed the worst guy in the NBA 30 million per year, should they keep playing him even if he sucks?

This is not productive. It's an unwillingness to fix a mistake.

Do you actually think that Pax or whoever the coach is, is just going to bench him permanently?

No. Nor do I think they have to. They can not start him. They could play him 20 minutes a night. They could pull him the second he doesn't hustle on a play or shows lack of energy.

Wallace is an experienced veteran who knows what it takes to win.

He hasn't applied that on the court in Chicago though. Whether he knows what it takes or not is irrelevant when his production sucks and he doesn't put forth effort.

Yes he is on the decline, but you, I, and Paxson all knew that when he was signed by this team.

I don't think anyone expected him to go from where he was to where he is in a year. I think a lot of it is jsut not wanting to be here to be honest.

Chicago is not going to make someone who got attention for this team, merchandise and basketball wise, sit.

I don't think the marketing department gets a say in playing time, but if they did, then it would be even worse then I think it is now.

It's bad business both ways. Tyrus sitting right now, or Noah sitting right now is just tightening the rotation, so the experienced guys can dig us back out.

I have no doubt that Wallace is in a hole and will continue to dig. I don't think out is the way he's going.

Once we're out, I'm sure Tyrus and Noah, and whoever else will get more time. It's not hard at all to comprehend the situation.

No it's not that hard to comprehend the situation. It's incomprehensible why our coaching staff continues on this path fraught with stupidity.

If Skiles, Boylan, and Myers, are all basically doing the same thing, it has nothing to do with "oh there skiles-lite" "oh they don't know who the better player is" it has to do with trusting experience over raw-meat. Which everyone is going to do 99% of the time when a team is in a rough spot.

Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[dougthonus]

Don't get me wrong either.

I can appreciate why we signed Ben Wallace. There were a lot of logical reasons to do so. I wasn't thrilled with it, but I wasn't against it either. I could see why we did it and thought it would work much better than it has.

I would not have imagined in a million years that it would go this bad this fast with him. That being said, I've been suggesting exit strategies since headband gate. I think we could have gotten out of the problem had we tried last year. This year, who knows.

[cark]

-= original quote snipped =-
The Bulls do not play better when Noah is on the court. Don't lose your mind...

This was already sig-worthy funny before tonight's game. Now it's 1000x so.

[Bulls_MIT]

I woke the "mope".

I unjinxed him. Wallace woke up at halftime after my Wallace rant.

[Tommy Udo 6]

Don't get me wrong either.

I can appreciate why we signed Ben Wallace. There were a lot of logical reasons to do so. I wasn't thrilled with it, but I wasn't against it either. I could see why we did it and thought it would work much better than it has.

I would not have imagined in a million years that it would go this bad this fast with him. That being said, I've been suggesting exit strategies since headband gate. I think we could have gotten out of the problem had we tried last year. This year, who knows.

I agree with all this.

However, you must try to muzzle your feelings.

No team is going to take him off our hands if they realize all these things you say are true!

[Red Larrivee]

-= original quote snipped =-


This was already sig-worthy funny before tonight's game. Now it's 1000x so.

Because we beat the Bobcats, now the team plays better with Noah on the floor.

Noah definitely to me is NBA-Ready, and has less problems with getting on the floor, but if the team played better with him in there, he'd be getting the minutes consistently. And this is as far as I can remember the 2nd or 3rd game where the team has played better with him in. It hasn't at all been consistent.

[Rerisen]

The team hasn't played too great with Wallace on the floor either. Look at our record.

[DJhitek]

I don't care for the reason's why we signed Wallace, I liked the signing because I felt there was no other viable option in a weak free agent class.

That said, Noah has outplayed Wallace this entire season. It doesn't take an NBA scout to realize that if you watch the games. Numbers support that so does the effort. We are actually in this hole due in large part to Wallace decreased productivity and effort.

Whether experience should win over youth is irrelevant to me. I'd prefer someone who works his ass off on the court over a player who seems to play when he wants to play has shown absolutely no leadership skills he should otherwise possess.

[League Circles]

my god I seriously can't believe everyone can't see what is going on here.

BW is being showcased for a trade. After the deadline, whether he gets traded or not (my guess is Pax wants a decent 2/3 and an expiring), his minutes will decline unless we and BW have really stepped it up, which is also a possibility. If we bench him now, he will have zero possibility to get traded and we will be stuck with him. This is a last ditch effort to trade him, to show he can still play 40 minutes, not foul, grab 10 boards and get a couple steals, assists and boards.

We aren't going to win it all this year no matter who plays right now, but playing the vets is the best way to get them traded, and it starts with BW. I guarantee that if we don't play .600 ball from here to the deadline, you will see a deal where one of BW, Smith or Noc goes. Guaranteed. To me this is the smart move - play Wallace all day and send him to the biggest sucker. We may have to take one relatively bad deal (like a 5 year 5 mil a year deal for a guy we won't play) in addition to a decent 4 or 5 mil a year 2/3 and then an expiring for BW. I'm working on ideas.

btw, I still think BW is a pretty good player, but not for us. Our other uys are not good enough to make Wallace a good fit. Noah/Gray/TT must BECOME better than BW if we are to have a chance.