The Sixers are NOT trading Miller

[killbuckner]

Wilt- Phoenix gave up 2 first round picks to get out of Kurt Thomas's contract this season because of the luxury tax. Golden State traded Jason Richardson away with no salary in return because of the luxury tax. I don't at all think its true that the luxury tax has no affect.

[djthesonicsfan]

-= original quote snipped =-

achewaly The sixers are not posturing here. Stefanski will have to be blown away to make a deal. Here's what Ed's probably trying to do.

1. Use that pick from the jazzg to be packaged with green and evans so someone gives up a expring for them.
2. That will give us enough room to sign a max free agent in the offseason. So we extend iggy and for arguements sake, say we sign brand.
3. Then next season, when we've added a couple of pieces, I expect stefanski to deal miller. That's when Lou will be able to take over, and when we could get good value for him, both as a good player and cap relief.

Sounds about right, achewaly.

[WiltForever]

Wilt- Phoenix gave up 2 first round picks to get out of Kurt Thomas's contract this season because of the luxury tax. Golden State traded Jason Richardson away with no salary in return because of the luxury tax. I don't at all think its true that the luxury tax has no affect.

I didn't say that. But Phoenix still has a payroll close to $71 mil, thus is $3+ mil into luxury. And Golden State will be a fifth seed at best and more likely six through eight.

My point is - most of the elite teams pay luxury tax. And if they didn't, they wouldn't be as 'elite'. Remove James Posey from the Celtics lineup (lowering their payroll to around $71 mil, still $3+ mil into luxury) and the Celtics would probably have lost 10 games so far, not three, and be bunched with the rest of the mere 'mortal' teams.

Add Jeff Foster to Detroit, the Lakers or Toronto, and Detroit would immediately become the odds-on favorite to win it all, the Lakers would have a shot, and Toronto would contend in the East. Give Andre Miller to Orlando, another non-luxury-paying team and they'll contend in the East.

Unfortunately, you can't fix bad signings (Larry Hughes) or bad luck (K-Mart) without taking on more payroll...and paying more tax. That's Cleveland and Denver's dilemma. In for a penny (or a billion of them), in for a pound.

[BBallFreak]

The assumption we're making is that Stefanski is a man of his word, rather than a doubleplusgood gmspeaker like Billy King was. Ed had said, rather bluntly, in a radio interview a couple weeks ago that he would be interested in moving Miller for expirings and a pick. (This was the same interview where he said he was exploring moving Korver, Evans, and Green.) Now he's saying he doesn't want to move him. That suggests that at the very least that was the asking price. Whether or not the new position implies he wants to keep Miller or is driving up the price is certainly up in the air. However, it seems more likely that the change from "I'll move him for expirings and a pick" to "I don't want to move him" means he actually wants to keep him.

Actually, dilbert719, I disagree. To me, that implies that no one met his price. If he came out an publicly stated that he would move him for expirings and a first, and did not move him, then to me, that says that no one offered expirings and a first.

This most recent statement is about public perception and trying to drive up his price. Nothing more...

[joey-A]

All this talk about the Utah 1st given in the Korver deal will be used as a sweetner to get a team to take either, or Green & Evans for a ending contract is rubbish! Until I'm proven wrong, and it does Indeed happen, I will continue to believe that Evans or Green can be, and would be wanted by several teams that ARE in need of a productive, and athletic scorer like Green. Or a tough-as-nails Rebounder like Evans. YES,,,on the Sixer team currently constructed, they're NOT the best options to keep given the possible opportunity to be a big time player in next years free agency. And I easpecially think that of Evans. Who needs to be placed on a current Vet team WITH a legit Center who can score. That we Evans would complement him. But as for Green, truth be told, I as a Sixer fan have no problem keeping him around. Just as long as Philly keeps him an Off the bench scorer, and not a starter. Getting the 14 Pts a game that Green can, and has averaged in less than 20 Minutes a game is as valuable as they come. Only way I package him for a scrub player who's deal is ending is IF Philly gets another 1st rounder back. Or the other teams agrees to take Booth, ect.



But NO 1st rounder has to be added for a team to take Evans, or Green. BOTH are highly usefull, and valuable players.

[killbuckner]

joey- actually I doubt a nonlottery first round pick would be enough to get anyone to take green for expiring contracts. If he were a free agent right now I seriously doubt he would get more than the minimum.

And for Evans- you do realize that the sixers only had to give up Steven Hunter to get him right? And thats likely because Denver couldn't find anyone to give them a better contract for him. Why would you think he has increased his trade value since getting to philly? Evans I agree is a useful player. Green- not at all. He is total dead weight capwise.

[yunggunz]

joey- actually I doubt a nonlottery first round pick would be enough to get anyone to take green for expiring contracts. If he were a free agent right now I seriously doubt he would get more than the minimum.
.

Why is Green so bad? His stats look decent.

[ponder719]

-= original quote snipped =-

Actually, dilbert719, I disagree. To me, that implies that no one met his price. If he came out an publicly stated that he would move him for expirings and a first, and did not move him, then to me, that says that no one offered expirings and a first.

This most recent statement is about public perception and trying to drive up his price. Nothing more...

Reasonable. As I mentioned, that's one possible reading. I disagree based on what I've seen thus far of Stefanski's personality and his openness in the media (I can't count too many GMs who'd be willing to make the "I'd definitely consider expirings and a first for him" statement he did). I think that nobody offered expirings and a first before he got a chance to watch Miller absolutely catch fire, and now the price that once seemed fair is starting to creep upwards, as implied by the later statement.

One way or the other, things will play out in the end, and he'll either move him or not, depending on if the value is there. Whatever the statement actually meant, I'm just happy we have someone competent making it, rather than frigging King.

[killbuckner]

What stats look decent? He had the 4th worst true shooting percentage among SG's. He is a lousy passer for a SG. He doesn't get to the foul line. He is short for a SG and isn't a good defender.

[joey-A]

Killbuckner. Green has upped his assist numbers this season by 300 %
He averages 4 times as many as say Golden State's Pietrus. But yet I don't see you posting in any of his trade threads that's he's completely worthless. Green also has it all over Pietrus on Defense, and Athleticism.. Yes Green is a pure gunner, no doubt. But so was Vinnie Johnson. And Green is just as " Hot " of an Instant scorer off the bench as Johnson ever was.



As for Evans, you DO realize that we only gave up Hunter for him ? Yeah Buckner but,,you DO realize that besides Hunter, Denver didn't have another Center on their team. You DO realize that Camby is made of Peanut Brittle, and has missed over 200 games the past 7 years right Denver NEEDED a Center.
Hunter was more valuable to them. And Philly they thought NEEDED a rebounder at the PF spot who was a Vet. I mean since they lost Joe Smith. BTW,,,there were several other teams VERY interested in Evans before that trade went down.
I suggest you do some past research on Denver.com, and their archives.


Thank you

[killbuckner]

joey- you have no clue. Green has upped his assist rate my a miniscule amount- 9.9 last season to 12.7 this season. He is just playing more minutes so his assists have gone up. I have no idea where you are getting 300%- thats simply pure fiction. Green is a guy who shoots a ton even though he isn't a good shooter. He doesn't play defense. He doesn't pass the ball. He is simply a bad basketball player and the sixers are stuck with him unless they compensate someone else to take his contract or buy him out.

And Denver if denver could have gotten an expiring contract for evans they wouldn't have bothered with Steven Hunter. You really think they wanted to pay him all that money for the 5 minutes a game he plays? Steven Hunter has negative trade value- he just had a shorter contract than evans so the Nuggets did the trade. If denver could have gotten an expiring contract for him they would have done it.

But hey- maybe you think that some team has gotten desperate and is willing to give up an expiring for Evans. As I said he is a useful player. You want to know how I am sure that hasn't happened- he is still on the Sixers. And there is NO QUESTION that they would prefer that caproom in the offseason to having Evans on the roster. If that were offered it would already be done.

[corwin]

Hey Joey - I thought you were right on until the Booth thing. I just don't see another team offering him the same money. He's old, he stinks, he's useless. If I was a bad basketball player, I wouldn't say no to a million dollars.

Dave, just saw this & don't know if anyone else commented. When players are signed for the veteran's minimum, only a portion counts against the cap (the idea was so that teams wouldn't discriminate against older players). Basically, the 1st 600,000 or 700, 000 counts. That's the amount that gets counted for team salary against the cap.

[yunggunz]

And Denver if denver could have gotten an expiring contract for evans they wouldn't have bothered with Steven Hunter. You really think they wanted to pay him all that money for the 5 minutes a game he plays? Steven Hunter has negative trade value- he just had a shorter contract than evans so the Nuggets did the trade. If denver could have gotten an expiring contract for him they would have done it.

Denver turned down Garrity for Evans

[WiltForever]

[quote= He is short for a SG and isn't a good defender.[/quote]

Kill: Don't want to get into a lengthy debate about Willie Green's contract. I personally don't think $3 mil is such a bad deal; Billy King probably should have offered him $1.5-$2 mil.

Two comments, however.

1) He's 6'3", not short if you have a 6'3"/6'4" point. More importantly, when Green came out of college he had the jumping ability of that 'man among boys', Tony Allen, a two-guard at 6'4".

2) On D, he's probably the best on-ball defender on the Sixers. He's still not as good as he was before his injury, but he's way ahead of Tony Allen who's contributing mightily to the Celtics but plays like a criple in his 16 mpg. If he comes all the way back, he's got some value.

Looking at the bigger picture, however, if someone takes a flier on Allen this June and offers him a $3 mil deal (like Billy King did to Green), it wouldn't be the biggest blunder ever made.

And Green is what he is: a first guard off the bench who plays some D and is a streak shooter (aka gunner) on offense. He's got a good work ethic, is not a troublemaker (religious is my understanding)...I think too much is made of his slightly inflated contract.

Compare that signing to K-Mart, Larry Hughes, Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, etc., etc.

Just an opinion.

[PhillyRocks1]

its a very good opinion. This board is the only board who does not like Willie Green although for $3M, he is well worth it. Problem is Lou Williams (who, dispite what people think, is not the future PG of the Sixers) , they can't have both. One has to go.

[PhillyRocks1]

its a very good opinion. This board is the only board who does not like Willie Green although for $3M, he is well worth it. Problem is Lou Williams (who, dispite what people think, is not the future PG of the Sixers) , they can't have both. One has to go.

[killbuckner]

Well- I certainly hope that Willie green is traded so you guys can see his negative trade value. Someone would have to be bribed to take him and its not particularly close. Green shoots a ton, doesn't shoot well, and doesn't pass. He is Flip Murray without so much passing. I guess if you think that green is a lock down defender then you might think he is worth it. But that is simply not at all true- he is a poor defender at SG no matter what philly fans want to think.

[joey-A]

Grenn's EEF rating on defense is at + 11. That's higher than either Kobe, or Billups. Just thought you should know that.

[yungal07]

Willie Green is garbage.

[killbuckner]

Joey- maybe you want to check out the stats from the rest of his career.

I will even help you out. Last season Willie green was 55th out of 66 shooting guards in your precious efficiency rating. In every year before that he was even worse.

He got a terrible contract and the sixers are stuck with him unless they want to bribe someone to take him. You think he has turned a corner then keep him.