It's one or the other (Noah and Ty)

[Dearth]

Joe Smith is inconsistent and I fear when he shoots. He's a one-dimensional player, and that's it. He reminds me of Malik Allen, who contributed by only shooting mid-range jumpers during his time here. Joe puts up some nice stats from time to time, but he has no impact on this team.

Are you sure you're actually watching the games?

Joe Smith with one arm tied behind his back could beat Malik Allen. Joe gets on the glass and gets some big offensive rebounds. He is way more active defensively and he has a nice swooping jump hook whereas Malik only had an ugly fade away and a standard jumper.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Yeah Joe is tons more savvy on the offensive end than Malik. Malik was and is strictly a 15 ft jump shooter. If he has an off game where he doesnt make it, he is useless. Joe has options. Now Joe Smith's D isnt fantastic, but he at least tries to get in the mix for rebounds and offensive boards.

Joe is pretty much what he though PJ would be and more. Joe is about twice the players PJ was last year.

[DuckIII]

Granted, there is a theory in business that to be an effective executive one does not need first hand knowledge, the job can simply be delegated to managers. Personaly? I never bought into that but maybe you do.

No. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actually being a GM.

So you are saying that NBA owners are fools for hiring people with credentials to expensive contracts when they could be hiring internet posters for cheap?

No. Jim Dolan is a fool. If I owned a team, you'd best believe I'd be opting for someone with intimiate familiarity with the league. Its clearly the safer way to go. But that doesn't mean there isn't a dentist in Des Moines who couldn't do just as good a job.

Or are you cherry picking the biggest train wreck in the history of pro sports and saying I could do that.

Actually, I couldn't do that. I'd be way too competent to make the moves Zeke made.

As i said in the beginning it is a hard argument to make without looking looking silly.

Tell that to Theo Epstein. He's arguably the most successful GM in baseball, and he's a student of the game, not a person with personal experience in playing or coaching it at a high level.

Being a GM, unlike a coach or a player, does NOT require intimate familiarity with playing or being immediately around the NBA. It requires a knowledge of basketball, personnel, personalities, the CBA, and negotiating skills.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I could perform the functions of GM of an NBA team at a competent level.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Tell that to Theo Epstein.

Duck beat me to it.

[AirP.]

-= original quote snipped =-



Just want to point out that Tyrus broke camp as the starter at the power forward position. He had a chance to put that on lock for 8 years but he didn't. He'll get another chance by busting his butt in practice and taking advantage of his next opportunity.

I'd like to point out that had the rest of the starters played up to their normal Tyrus would have probably stayed in the starting rotation, having a huge game every few nights and everything would have been fine and development would have continued, but our main guys weren't doing good, the Toronto game Skiles benched all 5 starters when it was 4 of them doing horrible not 5 and from that point on Tyrus didn't get consistent minutes.

Tyrus' being taken out of the starting lineup was Skiles attempt to get the other players going by bringing in a vet to instill some stability because Tyrus' game was anything but stable. It' was up and down and when your other players are hurting, you have to get some sort of stability in there to help them... it was just at the expense of Tyrus.

[Rerisen]

I agree with Coldfish. Every coach has their own bias's, hunches, and other reasons (maybe someone was lazy in practice, didn't listen to specific instructions, etc) that might be a cause for some of their decisions. Just because they have more basketball knowledge or can come up with the most logical basketball move in theory, doesn't mean they will follow that straight forward thinking all the time.

For instance, just because Scott Skiles loved to go small and stick 3 guards out on the floor in crucial minutes of games over the last 3 years, doesn't mean another coach would look at the Bulls lineup and make the same decision.

Skiles clearly viewed his lineups as always starting from the defensive end and he had very strong (maybe naive) belief that if everyone just ran his plays correctly on the other end, he could plug anyone out there on offense and the system should work. Now what would make him believe that a lineup like Duhon, Thabo, Nocioni, Tyrus, Wallace or something could ever get anything done on offense is beyond me, but he frequently would put lineups out there like that with only one legitimate offensive threat.

It's early but so far Boylan has seemed to understand it is wise to keep at least 2 of these players on the floor at all times (Gordon, Kirk, Deng, Noc).

Once the initial Duhon starting minutes are over, after that when Du comes back in the game he usually tries to get Gray (and hopefully Noah now) some minutes and that makes a lot of sense with Chris at PG.

[Chi town]

AIR- I totally agree about T2.

T2 is a victim of the big three's poor early season performance!

[derf]

So, I disagree with derf's implication that every playing time decision, rotation, etc. is based purely on the coach's best intellectual effort at all times.

Anyone who doesn't think there is a lot of politics that goes into the handling of Ben Wallace is being incredibly naive:

Let's be honest about that too, the big reason why Noah and Tyrus are not playing much is that Wallace is playing 40 minutes per game. Nocioni just getting nearly $40M is going to keep getting him minutes too. So, there is a reason for veterans getting their "entitlement" minutes and its called politics.

On realgm, we don't have to think about the consequences of going back on our word when we signed Ben, or worry about scrutiny from the media when you sit a guy you just gave a big contract to, but the guys who have the real jobs do have to think about that.

How is the point you made any different from the point I already , made? You say you disagree with me and then you write the same things in different words? Did you even read my post? Just in case you missed it here it is again...

I think all three of them are going to be good. Opinions of my own.

Gray has moved in front of Noah
Noah has moved in front of Tyrus
These are two examples of guys earning minutes. Unfortunately these earned minutes come at Tyrus's expense.

The Bulls have a lot of money invested in Ben Wallace and it is entirely possible that pressure is coming from above John Paxon to play him.

It sounds to me like we agree. Am I missing something?

[coldfish]

I think I replied to the wrong person. Pay no attention to this wreckage. Move on. Nothing to see here.

[derf]

-= original quote snipped =-



Tell that to Theo Epstein. He's arguably the most successful GM in baseball, and he's a student of the game, not a person with personal experience in playing or coaching it at a high level.

Being a GM, unlike a coach or a player, does NOT require intimate familiarity with playing or being immediately around the NBA. It requires a knowledge of basketball, personnel, personalities, the CBA, and negotiating skills.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I could perform the functions of GM of an NBA team at a competent level.

Ballsy Answer Duck.

For the record I acknowledge that it is possible that an NBA poster could get a front office Job. In fact one has to look no further then our own Dan Rosenbaum. But with all due respect to everyone here Dan's specialized knowledge on the salary cap and his credentials as a professor of mathematics at UNC set him apart from your average internet poster, I have read nothing comparable before or since. I like your posts but I don't see you as GM material. Sorry.

[derf]

I agree with Coldfish. Every coach has their own bias's, hunches, and other reasons (maybe someone was lazy in practice, didn't listen to specific instructions, etc) that might be a cause for some of their decisions. Just because they have more basketball knowledge or can come up with the most logical basketball move in theory, doesn't mean they will follow that straight forward thinking all the time.



.

Agreed I addressed that on page 8 at the beginning of this discussion.

kyrv wrote:
-= original quote snipped =-

Tyrus rarely plays, so not a big deal, but I also would prefer Tyrus give up the ball asap. I like that he starts downcourt but I think (for now) he should be looking to get the ball to the guard and then head towards the basket.

He rarely plays so not trying to nit-pick on one particular play, but, I agree he should give the ball up, as soon as he can.

My Response on page 8:

Tyurus plays every day in practice, The thing is it is not on TV, so we don't see it.

But the coaches do. Perhaps they are seeing something we don't.

[derf]

I think I replied to the wrong person. Pay no attention to this wreckage. Move on. Nothing to see here.

[DuckIII]

I like your posts but I don't see you as GM material. Sorry.

I'm sure I'll somehow manage to plod on.

Theo Epstein is a lawyer who loves baseball, became at GM at age 29 despite literally no experience in playing or coaching baseball at a high level, and is now arguably the best GM in the Majors. You simply can't get around his existence.

If you know basketball, know people, know the CBA, know business, and know how to negotiate, then you can GM a professional basketball team. You might not think you could do it because perhaps you don't feel comfortable with your skillset and knowledge base in those particular areas. But I feel very comfortable. I know I could do it.

Would I hire someone like me to do it if I owned a team? Hell no. But that doesn't mean someone like me couldn't do it and do it well.

[Sinistar6]

Christ Almighty.

So we don't play the two guys who could possibly take this team to the ext level.

Instead we start a frontcourt with an average age of 33 years old. Great idea.


I'm f*&^ing sick to my stomach.

+1

and I'm 33 years old!

So +2!

[fuzion]

Theo Epstein did have some internship experience with the Orioles and was involved with sports at Yale. Despite his lack of experience as a player and manager, his law degree obviously helps when dealing with the details of professional contracts. And like in any other job, you have to know people to get up in that position. I'm sure there are other people qualified or even more qualified than Epstein, but he knew the right people. And that's how you get ahead in this world. that's how Ivy League schools maintain their reputation in the business world as well. I'm pursuing my MBA degree at University of Chicago and I attended a networking event for some top investment banking companies right now.....and they almost always get candidates for internships and jobs fresh from top MBA schools like Harvard, Yale, University of Chicago, Northwestern, etc....It's a shame, because I am sure there are probably people who didn't attend those schools who are just as qualified but they don't get noticed because they graduated from some other school outside the top 25 business schools. And if they do get hired, their salary is at a lower price. It's all about networking and who you know.

[DuckIII]

Theo Epstein did have some internship experience with the Orioles and was involved with sports at Yale. Despite his lack of experience as a player and manager, his law degree obviously helps when dealing with the details of professional contracts. And like in any other job, you have to know people to get up in that position. I'm sure there are other people qualified or even more qualified than Epstein, but he knew the right people. And that's how you get ahead in this world. that's how Ivy League schools maintain their reputation in the business world as well. I'm pursuing my MBA degree at University of Chicago and I attended a networking event for some top investment banking companies right now.....and they almost always get candidates for internships and jobs fresh from top MBA schools like Harvard, Yale, University of Chicago, Northwestern, etc....It's a shame, because I am sure there are probably people who didn't attend those schools who are just as qualified but they don't get noticed because they graduated from some other school outside the top 25 business schools. And if they do get hired, their salary is at a lower price. It's all about networking and who you know.

He was a sports editor at Yale. I agree with your post. My sole point is that Theo put himself in a position to get involved with MLB teams. But his rise to his role had absolutely nothing to do with particularized experience with coaching or playing baseball at a high level. Is is a pre-requisite to coach a team or play the games? Absolutely. To GM a team? Absolutely not.