Would you trade Hinrich for Jamal Crawford?

[ChicagoChris]

crawford sucks so bad. it is especially frustrating b/c he has some major talent being 6'6 with his handles. but he is such a puss when it comes to taking it to the rack that they are wasted. ooh yeah, i'm gonna break my defenders ankles with some razzle dazzle then loft up a floating 23 footer. just thinking of him on the bulls makes me want to punch somebody in the face.

[dougthonus]

I don't think we could get the Knicks unprotected first for Hinrich if we took back Jerome James.

[ptpablo]

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Well, I object to that. Hinrich has actually been guarding opposing points and is being given plenty of space recently. He is still playing poorly.

Hinrich doesn't slash through the defense or create a lot of offense as a PG. I really don't see how the SG affects that.

I have to admit that I have not seen many games since Scooter's firing, but did notice in the POR game that he was guarding the pg. In that same game I thought he played much better. His stats seem to be better.

He definitely is not a slashing in the lane pg, but he looked more assertive on the offensive end. IMO he would be a great 2nd guard to a stud SG. Watching that POR game I kept thinking of what a great backcourt Hinrich & Roy would have been. Especially since he was staring us in the face draft night and TT is staring from the bench. My hindsight goggles have been on lately.

[TB#1]

crawford sucks so bad. it is especially frustrating b/c he has some major talent being 6'6 with his handles. but he is such a puss when it comes to taking it to the rack that they are wasted. ooh yeah, i'm gonna break my defenders ankles with some razzle dazzle then loft up a floating 23 footer. just thinking of him on the bulls makes me want to punch somebody in the face.

That described Crawford at one time.

He has matured substantially. For the right deal (which is more from NY than Kirk for Jamal straight up) I'd be very interested.

I was (rightfully) hard on the kid when he didn't develop to the extent hoped while he was here in the first place, but I have great respect for his progress in NY. That crap franchise, at this point, is bringing him down. I think a return to Chicago could cause him to positively explode, in a very good way.

[Eminjay7]

I'd never do a Crawford-Hinrich trade, because no one could defend the other teams SG since KH is way better in D!

[ptpablo]

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That described Crawford at one time.

He has matured substantially. For the right deal (which is more from NY than Kirk for Jamal straight up) I'd be very interested.

I was (rightfully) hard on the kid when he didn't develop to the extent hoped while he was here in the first place, but I have great respect for his progress in NY. That crap franchise, at this point, is bringing him down. I think a return to Chicago could cause him to positively explode, in a very good way.

How much more would you want for that deal? It would take at least Lee and taking Wallace for better contracts for me to consider it.

[IlliniNRG]

Crawford = a slightly better version of J.R. Smith, and Hinrich is our best defender. No.

[TB#1]

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How much more would you want for that deal? It would take at least Lee and taking Wallace for better contracts for me to consider it.

I haven't really thought it through. Lee is enticing. Draft considerations would interest me. Not necessarily both, to make it fair. Either through this trade or otherwise, even though Jamal's defense has improved a bazillion percent, I'd like to see some back court defense reinforcement if Hinrich would be moved for him.

All that being said, I highly doubt the Knicks are interested in moving what appears to be very valuable draft picks without very unattractive protection or Lee, so the point is probably moot.

[JimmyJammer]

This is the same crap over and over, we overrate our own players and we dismiss the competition. We question Jamal's poor shot selection, while Kirk's poor shot selection has been a problem for this team. I have seen countless of times how Hinrich pull up for a quick jumpshot with noone under the basket to rebound, but nobody dares questioning "Golden Boy". Hinrich's defense is also overrated, since he cannot guard quick guards. He fouls at a very high rate for somebody, who we consider to be a good defender. Hinrich cannot shoot, nor can he create his own shots.

In Jamal, we have a player who has some of Hinrich's deficiencies, but with more creativity and height. I think Crawford has matured a lot as a player since he left the bulls. Some of you think like our Gm, Paxson, who cannot even orchestrate a good trade because of the way he overrates his own players. It is time to think out of the box.

[DuckIII]

Well, my answer is "no." But I agree with TB. Once upon a time I absolutely detested Jamal Crawford's game. To his credit, I think he has really tried to improve his game despite being surrounded by turbulence his entire career.

[BR0D1E86]

I would, but then again I'm a cutter... and I like to use dull, rusty knives because I enjoy maximum suffering.

On the other hand, I dislike awful basketball players which means I wouldn't like Crawford back.

Meh, I guess I probably wouldn't.

[BR0D1E86]

Well, my answer is "no." But I agree with TB. Once upon a time I absolutely detested Jamal Crawford's game. To his credit, I think he has really tried to improve his game despite being surrounded by turbulence his entire career.

I'll agree that he's somewhat improved his decision-making on offense but that's not saying much.

He's less terrible than most of what's on that team though, I'll give him that.

[risktaker91]

Hinrich >>> Crawford.

Crawford is horrible, I'm sorry.

[ChicagoChris]

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That described Crawford at one time.

He has matured substantially. For the right deal (which is more from NY than Kirk for Jamal straight up) I'd be very interested.

I was (rightfully) hard on the kid when he didn't develop to the extent hoped while he was here in the first place, but I have great respect for his progress in NY. That crap franchise, at this point, is bringing him down. I think a return to Chicago could cause him to positively explode, in a very good way.

A return to chicago would probably help him. And having seen very little of him this year I can't really comment on his progress except to say it really doesn't show up in the stats.

Hollinger's scouting report from the start of the season harped on his crappy shot selection and also said.."

Crawford is also a poor defender. He has the height and quickness but his lack of strength is an issue against bigger guards, while his effort level is a problem against guards of any size. He's also a nonfactor on the boards, where he ranked 53rd among shooting guards in rebound rate"

Has he really changed this season? or is he just attractive b/c kirk has sucked so bad...

[JimmyJammer]

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Has he really changed this season? or is he just attractive b/c kirk has sucked so bad...

Didn't Hollinger also say that we would be the team to beat this season?

[coldfish]

This is the same crap over and over, we overrate our own players and we dismiss the competition. We question Jamal's poor shot selection, while Kirk's poor shot selection has been a problem for this team. I have seen countless of times how Hinrich pull up for a quick jumpshot with noone under the basket to rebound, but nobody dares questioning "Golden Boy". Hinrich's defense is also overrated, since he cannot guard quick guards. He fouls at a very high rate for somebody, who we consider to be a good defender. Hinrich cannot shoot, nor can he create his own shots.

In Jamal, we have a player who has some of Hinrich's deficiencies, but with more creativity and height. I think Crawford has matured a lot as a player since he left the bulls. Some of you think like our Gm, Paxson, who cannot even orchestrate a good trade because of the way he overrates his own players. It is time to think out of the box.

No, we overrate NY Knick players, or at least, there is a significant contingent of people here who seem to think one of the worst teams in the league have talent.

Again, just look at the career stats. Hinrich isn't anything special, but Crawful is just that. Hinrich pretty much kills Crawford across the board. Its ironic that Crawford is supposedly the better offensive player and creator, yet Hinrich has the better assist rate, FG%, 3P% and A/to ratio.

[girlygirl]

This is the same crap over and over, we overrate our own players and we dismiss the competition. We question Jamal's poor shot selection, while Kirk's poor shot selection has been a problem for this team. I have seen countless of times how Hinrich pull up for a quick jumpshot with noone under the basket to rebound, but nobody dares questioning "Golden Boy". Hinrich's defense is also overrated, since he cannot guard quick guards. He fouls at a very high rate for somebody, who we consider to be a good defender. Hinrich cannot shoot, nor can he create his own shots.

In Jamal, we have a player who has some of Hinrich's deficiencies, but with more creativity and height. I think Crawford has matured a lot as a player since he left the bulls. Some of you think like our Gm, Paxson, who cannot even orchestrate a good trade because of the way he overrates his own players. It is time to think out of the box.

Do you not read the game threads? TONS of people question Hinrich's shot selection, especially when he takes those pull-up jumpers on the semi-break. They also question is playmaking, his ability to create shots for himself and, even occasionally, his defense.

However, all that being said, he's still a better all-around player than Crawford, who has the same sort of problems with shot selection that Hinrich does (I think most people would agree that, over the course of a game, Jamal takes far more bad shots than Kirk -- of course he takes more shots overall) and is a worse defender and ballhandler than Kirk.

Jamal seems to have matured since he left Chicago, but he hasn't improved very much as a player as far as I can tell.

For instance, compare his per 48 minute stats in his last season with the Bulls to his current season in NY and explain to me where he's significantly improved. Because I don't see it -- either in the stats on when I watch him play.

(2003-04) 23.6 PPG 4.8 RPG 6.9 APG 3.3 TO/G 38.6%FG 31.7 3Pt%
(2007-08) 22.4 PPG 3.5 RPG 5.5 APG 3.3 TO/G 40.0%FG 31.9 3Pt%

Now compare Jamal's per 48 numbers this year to Kirk's last season, and you'll see that Kirk's numbers were better basically all across the board.

(KH, 2006-07) 22.4 PPG 4.6 RPG 8.4 APG 3.2 TO/G 44.8 FG% 41.8 3Pt%

So instead of trading Hinrich for Crawford, the idea should be to get Kirk back to where he was playing last season! Easier said than done, I know...

[derf]

Subtraction by addition IMO.

[ChicagoChris]

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Didn't Hollinger also say that we would be the team to beat this season?

that is a flawed- cherry picking, ad hominem- response. not to mention comparing apples (hollingers description of the past) to oranges ( his forecast for the future).

[Magilla_Gorilla]

This had to have been a joke.

Tell me its a joke.

Please.