Trading Redd Is Not The Way

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-

CBQ I hope you do not stop posting info that most of us like to read. I say the same to others. Who knows who has insider info. I do not care anyways, since we are limited to Bucks info in general. Its fun to read. GAD had insider info about a trade not long ago. It did not happen, but I would not call him out on it. Why? Because things change all the time. Things fall through.

I will post what I can when I can.. thanks for the post.

[carmelbrownqueen]

europa, there is no way that I have found to rebutt things without having to reveal your source. I have written very lengthy posts only to erase them before they post because I thought it revealed too much. With the example of a players value.. everyone is going to disagree on a message board, but around the league things are a bit different. Just because poster X doesn't believe a player has very much value doesn't mean that Coaches, GM's, other players and soforth with agree with that assumption.

[REDDzone]

This is a good topic of discussion. So what would you suggest be done in that situation? For example, whether Adam or anyone else wants to believe it or not I am privy to certain pieces of info due to my job and the contacts I've made throughout the league. So if you tell me Player A has no value around the league and I know for a fact that isn't correct, how would you like me to present this info without revealing who specifically has given me this info?

All I'm trying to do, for example, is add more info and context to a discussion when I present the info I've been given. But if there's a better way for me to present it I'm certainly open to suggestions.

I don't know the answer to this. All I can say is what I do, and that is just subjective.

Certain posters on this forum have credibility with me, some do not. If I am having a discussion with a poster, and they tell me things that they are privy to, then I believe them based on their own credibility that they have established with me in the past.

Someone like FormerBuckFan I usually believe regardless, just has hit so many times on impossible to predict topics. Guys like GAD I will generally believe also. Other guys like you I personally will believe, but I also understand skepticism because of the vagueness of the sources at times, and am not quite sure how it would even be possible to establish credibility in some people's minds. For example, someone on this forum who has heard conflicting information as you, or someone who is knew and has yet to allow that credibility to fully establish will probably have a certain amount of skepticism.

But for example some people, like yesterday, BrewersGM made a thread on inside info he had. I didn't believe it at all. I'm not saying he is lying, but he has absolutely no established credibility with me, and can therefore not expect me to take anything he says without a huge dose of skepticism. There is even a poster or two who I believe has established credibility with the forum as a whole, but not with me. Doesn't mean I am not interested in their information, but as I said before, I usually take it with a grain of salt.

[europa]

Doesn't mean I am not interested in their information, but as I said before, I usually take it with a grain of salt.

That's probably the best way to proceed anyway. And I think one can do that without attacking the source of the information for no reason. But sadly, that is often the case in this forum and it seems to have gotten worse in the last year or so. Maybe I'm wrong but that definitely is the impression I've gotten. The level of ugliness seems to be growing and I don't see any reason for that.

For myself, I can't control if people choose to believe what I say or not. I could tell them to ask GAD if they question my credibility given how he knows who I am and how I come into contact with the info I've been given and he's vouched for both numerous times in the past. But for some, I'd imagine even that wouldn't suffice so it's like CBQ said at the end of the day there's nothing you can do with those people because no amount of validity will suffice. I could tell them that five sources of mine throughout the league guarantee the sky will be blue tomorrow and they'll scoff at the info and then spend a dozen posts attacking me. Maybe it's because the team has been so bad but that attitude seems to be growing here in the last year or so and I just think it's really unfortunate.

This thread is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. There's an air of ugliness that simply isn't necessary and doesn't need to exist.

[msiris]

-= original quote snipped =-



This is a good topic of discussion. So what would you suggest be done in that situation? For example, whether Adam or anyone else wants to believe it or not I am privy to certain pieces of info due to my job and the contacts I've made throughout the league. So if you tell me Player A has no value around the league and I know for a fact that isn't correct, how would you like me to present this info without revealing who specifically has given me this info?

All I'm trying to do, for example, is add more info and context to a discussion when I present the info I've been given. But if there's a better way for me to present it I'm certainly open to suggestions.

But you should know better. There will always be people who call you out no matter what. But I do know one thing about posters like you and CBQ is that I never have seen you guys call out other people or get personal unless on the defensive. Thats why I give you guys a little more credibility than some others.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Everybody is different. There are some guys on this forum who many like but I generally ignore based on their style of presenting information/discussion. Some times I agree with them, other times I don't..but their individual styles on this and other boards I currently or previously posted on is not my cup of tea so I move on and select based on my interst who I am going to pay attention too. I respect everyone as a poster on this board as long as they love the Bucks and present themselves appropriately. Therefore if the discussion is good or interesting I will jump on in and post my thoughts.

How someone establishes "credibility" with other posters is so subjective that it's almost irrelevant at times. There are individuals on this board that regardless of what they type aren't going to be believed and others that type complete gibberish or can articulate a simple concept that for me hold no credibility but are highly respected by many others. So in the message board world to me... all that is neither here nor there in my opinion.

It's just a matter of personal taste, for some, the truth on a subject still doesn't always make them "credible".

[europa]

-= original quote snipped =-

But you should know better. There will always be people who call you out no matter what. But I do know one thing about posters like you and CBQ is that I never have seen you guys call out other people or get personal unless on the defensive. Thats why I give you guys a little more credibility than some others.

I appreciate that. I've been pushed too far a couple of times in this forum and reacted. In one instance I regretted it and apologized. The other time I did not because the person hasn't exhibited any behavior before or since that in my opinion warranted the respect of an apology. In any event, it's easy to disagree without attack. I'm not perfect but that's how I try to proceed. And CBQ without question is the best at it in this forum. That's why I always find it odd that people would attack her. Nothing in her posting history in the time I've been here would lead a reasonable person to think she deserved to be attacked.

[msiris]

This is a good topic of discussion. So what would you suggest be done in that situation? For example, whether Adam or anyone else wants to believe it or not I am privy to certain pieces of info due to my job and the contacts I've made throughout the league. So if you tell me Player A has no value around the league and I know for a fact that isn't correct, how would you like me to present this info without revealing who specifically has given me this info?

All I'm trying to do, for example, is add more info and context to a discussion when I present the info I've been given. But if there's a better way for me to present it I'm certainly open to suggestions.

I don't know the answer to this. All I can say is what I do, and that is just subjective.

Certain posters on this forum have credibility with me, some do not. If I am having a discussion with a poster, and they tell me things that they are privy to, then I believe them based on their own credibility that they have established with me in the past.

Someone like FormerBuckFan I usually believe regardless, just has hit so many times on impossible to predict topics. Guys like GAD I will generally believe also. Other guys like you I personally will believe, but I also understand skepticism because of the vagueness of the sources at times, and am not quite sure how it would even be possible to establish credibility in some people's minds. For example, someone on this forum who has heard conflicting information as you, or someone who is knew and has yet to allow that credibility to fully establish will probably have a certain amount of skepticism.

But for example some people, like yesterday, BrewersGM made a thread on inside info he had. I didn't believe it at all. I'm not saying he is lying, but he has absolutely no established credibility with me, and can therefore not expect me to take anything he says without a huge dose of skepticism. There is even a poster or two who I believe has established credibility with the forum as a whole, but not with me. Doesn't mean I am not interested in their information, but as I said before, I usually take it with a grain of salt.

Great post. Hard to know who is who when you cant not see or hear people. But it helps when a person can read how another person responds to another.

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-

But you should know better. There will always be people who call you out no matter what. But I do know one thing about posters like you and CBQ is that I never have seen you guys call out other people or get personal unless on the defensive. Thats why I give you guys a little more credibility than some others.

When I first posted on this board very few people were posting at all.. I lost interest and went back to the ESPN boards (the dark ages ). Then MD asked to me to check this board out again (back when he was Bucksinsider on the ESPN boards). So I came back.. things were interesting and I thought the discussions were good so I stuck around. But like europa stated.. things have changed. The air around here has changed, and at times it feels as if perhaps some of that stupidity from the ESPN and other boards was brought here sometime within the past couple of years. And really that's unfortunate because soon that will put those seeking good discussions about the Bucks on the path to find somewhere else to spend their time.

[msiris]

-= original quote snipped =-

When I first posted on this board very few people were posting at all.. I lost interest and went back to the ESPN boards (the dark ages ). Then MD asked to me to check this board out again (back when he was Bucksinsider on the ESPN boards). So I came back.. things were interesting and I thought the discussions were good so I stuck around. But like europa stated.. things have changed. The air around here has changed, and at times it feels as if perhaps some of that stupidity from the ESPN and other boards was brought here sometime within the past couple of years. And really that's unfortunate because soon that will put those seeking good discussions about the Bucks on the path to find somewhere else to spend their time.

This board is far better than where Europa and I came from. If you believe in yourself it does not matter what others think. You know yourself better than anyone here.

[paulpressey25]

The stupidity you refer to is a direct result of the losing and inept ways of this franchise......people are just frustrated and taking it out on each other.

There is no other place to go or thing to do or topic to talk about on here anymore.......three years of tanking for the lotto while having young players who don't pan out has taken its toll.........Kohl has left a vast void of leadership and direction.....you see it in the front office...you see it in the coaching staff....you see it in the players....and on this board.

It really though is no different than the mess in the early to mid-1990's. This board just wasn't in existence back then. But the same thing...a rudderless ship trying to sell fans that Todd Day, Lee Mayberry and Blue Edwards would become the next Sidney, Marques and Pressey.....

We got a respite from this by landing three talented players in Vin, Glenn and Ray but the benefits of that modest talent infusion have all gone away now.

[msiris]

The stupidity you refer to is a direct result of the losing and inept ways of this franchise......people are just frustrated and taking it out on each other.

There is no other place to go or thing to do or topic to talk about on here anymore.......three years of tanking for the lotto while having young players who don't pan out has taken its toll.........Kohl has left a vast void of leadership and direction.....you see it in the front office...you see it in the coaching staff....you see it in the players....and on this board.

It really though is no different than the mess in the early to mid-1990's. This board just wasn't in existence back then. But the same thing...a rudderless ship trying to sell fans that Todd Day, Lee Mayberry and Blue Edwards would become the next Sidney, Marques and Pressey.....

We got a respite from this by landing three talented players in Vin, Glenn and Ray but the benefits of that modest talent infusion have all gone away now.

And where did you get this insider info?

[LUKE23]

The stupidity you refer to is a direct result of the losing and inept ways of this franchise......people are just frustrated and taking it out on each other.

There is no other place to go or thing to do or topic to talk about on here anymore.......three years of tanking for the lotto while having young players who don't pan out has taken its toll.........Kohl has left a vast void of leadership and direction.....you see it in the front office...you see it in the coaching staff....you see it in the players....and on this board.

It really though is no different than the mess in the early to mid-1990's. This board just wasn't in existence back then. But the same thing...a rudderless ship trying to sell fans that Todd Day, Lee Mayberry and Blue Edwards would become the next Sidney, Marques and Pressey.....

We got a respite from this by landing three talented players in Vin, Glenn and Ray but the benefits of that modest talent infusion have all gone away now.

Bingo. And it's only going to get worse. Generally speaking, the worse the team does, the more traffic there is, thus resulting in more chances for people to go at each other.

Bottom line, if you're posting on a forum with a lot of posters, you need to have thick skin. Most people don't mean anything personally, they are just fed up with this organization.

There is no possible way any objective Bucks fan can honestly say this team has a bright future right now. None.

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-

This board is far better than where Europa and I came from. If you believe in yourself it does not matter what others think. You know yourself better than anyone here.

Oh I know all about the JS boards (if that is what you are referring too).. I have posted on there a number of times myself and It was pretty over the top at times.l. That's why if I posted something once every three months it was a big deal. Used to read stuff over there but never post.

Oh and if there is one thing I have.. it's confidence. I don't lack that in the slightest, ergo, why I see no need to continuously "establish" my credibility everytime someone goes after me on the boards.

[xTitan]

Oh great now PP is an insider too...thats it, every single person gets put on ignore......with the exception of Adam, I swear he is the only one who has a clue....so TESTIFY Adam, I am listening

[msiris]

-= original quote snipped =-

Oh I know all about the JS boards (if that is what you are referring too).. I have posted on there a number of times myself and It was pretty over the top at times.l. That's why if I posted something once every three months it was a big deal. Used to read stuff over there but never post.

Oh and if there is one thing I have.. it's confidence. I don't lack that in the slightest, ergo, why I see no need to continuously "establish" my credibility everytime someone goes after me on the boards.

But you don't. You have that with a lot of us already. Not everyone will.

[msiris]

Oh great now PP is an insider too...thats it, every single person gets put on ignore......with the exception of Adam, I swear he is the only one who has a clue....so TESTIFY Adam, I am listening

I have insider info. Its inside me and I vowed never to tell anyone. Besides Adam lives on the east coast. If anything he is one of Thorns boys. I mean no disrespect to you Adam. Keep posting.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

CBQ - there are really two issues that you've created in this thread.

One is that you haven't established credibility here (as an insider, not as a poster in general), and we've been over that.

The other issue is that in this case you were talking completely out your ass when you said insiders had posted things on this board that back up your own claim. It is impossible for you to know that insiders posted those things unless you also remember who those insiders were. It is completely unacceptable to say "I'm right, and insiders posted the exact same information... No, I don't know who those insiders are; go look it up."

It is one thing to try and back up your claims with unverified anonymous insiders that you haven't established. But it's even worse to try and back up your claim with inside sources who's identity you can't even remember.

I'd like to know why MD locked BrewersGM's attempt to share inside information. That decision would indicate that he has some methodology for deciding who has insider sources and who doesn't. I really think it's getting to the point where we should have a stickied thread with a list of who claims to be an insider and what news they've broke. We literally have 10 or 20 posters claiming behind-the-scenes knowledge, but only 2 or 3 of them have actually provided verifiable information. If these type of claims are to play such a big role around here, people should be responsible for their track records as well.

[msiris]

CBQ - there are really two issues that you've created in this thread.

One is that you haven't established credibility here (as an insider, not as a poster in general), and we've been over that.

The other issue is that in this case you were talking completely out your ass when you said insiders had posted things on this board that back up your own claim. It is impossible for you to know that insiders posted those things unless you also remember who those insiders were. It is completely unacceptable to say "I'm right, and insiders posted the exact same information... No, I don't know who those insiders are; go look it up."

It is one thing to try and back up your claims with unverified anonymous insiders that you haven't established. But it's even worse to try and back up your claim with inside sources who's identity you can't even remember.

I'd like to know why MD locked BrewersGM's attempt to share inside information. That decision would indicate that he has some methodology for deciding who has insider sources and who doesn't. I really think it's getting to the point where we should have a stickied thread with a list of who claims to be an insider and what news they've broke. We literally have 10 or 20 posters claiming behind-the-scenes knowledge, but only 2 or 3 of them have actually provided verifiable information. If these type of claims are to play such a big role around here, people should be responsible for their track records as well.

But what if her sources have asked her to keep it private? Otherwise if people did tell us and did not respect what the sources wanted they would no longer be privileged to that info.

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-



Bingo. And it's only going to get worse. Generally speaking, the worse the team does, the more traffic there is, thus resulting in more chances for people to go at each other.

Bottom line, if you're posting on a forum with a lot of posters, you need to have thick skin. Most people don't mean anything personally, they are just fed up with this organization.

There is no possible way any objective Bucks fan can honestly say this team has a bright future right now. None.

Well I certainly hope no one is crying about this type of stuff, because what someone thinks of you on a Message Board means absolutely nothing in real life (but that is just my opinion)... Thick skin comes from knowing when to write off those who mean very little in the grand scheme of things versus paying attention to those who mean much, or at least that's what I have always been taught.

Regarding the feelings or mood on the board, it's my belief the frustration is felt by everyone. However, that doesn't give anyone license to personally attack anyone else. Be frustrtated. That's okay real Bucks fans SHOULD be frustrated when their team isn't playing to their potential. A Bucks message board and message boards in general are made to have discussion about that type of stuff.. Unlike what has been stated here in many instances over the past couple of years, this board wasn't formed only for those with some notion of credibility or similar thought processes on things. It was made for discussion.. and like I said before, whether someone chooses to engage in a discussion with someone else is a matter of choice because the IGNORE button is always available.

I think our responsiblity as posters comes in how we handle that frustration.. because you can't have a discussion without observing some level of respectfulness with others when we are trying to get our argument heard. If you think things are about to become inappropriate with someone then that is the time to pull back. I've done it many times.. it's not always easy to do but it is possible.

Taking things to a personal level usually loses the respect of the person you are discussing things with, ergo that valuable "credibility" (on these boards) gets damaged.