bargnani in todays game

[sidsid]

Bargs is not a big. He is only a big by name. He's horrible rebounder on both ends so he wouldn't have made a difference there, and his inability to post up would have made him ineffective against their smalls. Devin Brown or Lebron would have kept him in check.

Funny you should mention this because in the last game he played against the Cavs, which was one of his best, We regularly used him in the pick and roll and the Cavs would switch leaving a guard on Bargs. Bargs would post up and the Cavs would immediately double. Bargs would make the right pass and it created opportunities on the floor. Bargs was looking like Shaq out there (or at least the Cavs were treating him like that. ).

[Darrick Martin]

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You're right. We should have gone big, but not with Bargnani. Hump and Rasho probably could've done some damage to the cavs on the other end with their size and help rebounding wise. But NOT with Bargs.

Bargs is not a big. He is only a big by name. He's horrible rebounder on both ends so he wouldn't have made a difference there, and his inability to post up would have made him ineffective against their smalls. Devin Brown or Lebron would have kept him in check. On top of that he would have been a liability defensively because he wouldn't have had the speed to keep up with their smalls, trap and help on Lebron and recover to the shooters.

So if he's liability Defensively, can't rebound and can't take advantage of his mismatch on O, why play him in that situation?

I also like his lack of effort to block shots as well.. I am getting sick and tired of seeing him with two hands up and being a pylon..

To be fair, he is still sick.

[sidsid]

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Nice to see that Barg's supporters are finding new angles to explain ineptitude all the time.

Barg's was awful today, this much I know.

That post had nothing to do with Bargs. The poster mentioned Mitchell being fired before moving Bargs. I've been pretty much against Mitchell before Bargs was even on this team.

Did my post say anything regarding Bargs, or Mitchell on Bargs? No. It was strickly about Mitchell.

You could say my post was OT but I was responding to another post. You'd think there'd be enough posts about Bargs to hate on that you wouldn't have to jump on the ones that aren't about him.

[gangstaff]

+1 for the Million Dollar Man avatar.

[djsunyc]

i don't think many of you are understanding what the situation really is.

the 2006 draft was considered not to be a great draft by everybody. like no true franchise elite superstars. and so far, it's proving to be true. brandon roy is a nice player, but elite superstar?

so colangelo took a gamble and drafted bargnani. he decided to take a risk as opposed to a safer pick. can't fault him there. there was no clear #1 pick.

so he took bargs. he was brought off the bench last year and he helped the raptors OVERACHIEVE and surprise the league with 47 wins. 47 wins WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN...but it did.

so now, there are expectations that this team should build on that. ok, fine...but what's LOST in all of this is that bargs was still a risk and needs to be developed. but that's VERY difficult to do when you're expected to win.

portland was BAD...VERY BAD for years. it took like 4-5 trips to the lottery to get to this point. they could let all their young guys just play and play and play and figure it out.

but we don't have that luxury b/c the team is trying to win. so the players that suffer are the young ones on the team...like graham and bargs. so fans sit back and rip the crap outta them when they don't produce not realizing that it takes time sometimes for these guys to develop.

so fans expect bargs to be dwight howard, lebron, etc...when he's not. and b/c he doesn't live up to THEIR expectations, they think he's a bust. meanwhile, he doesn't get time to play through mistakes, he gets pulled b/c the raps are trying to win. a situation VERY different than many teams that acquire the top picks.

look at tyrus thomas - he doesn't get minutes either b/c the bulls are trying to win. but teams like portland, memphis, THERE ARE NO EXPECTATIONS so their young guys can just play and play and play.

bargs development curve probably would've been much higher had he gone to a crappy team. but since he's here, he's not gonna get a chance to develop on the court and in real game situations.

and on top of all that, they're trying to make him do different things. so as a young guy, 2nd year in a new country, he's asked to do things he never really did, so he's trying to do that, but also knows that if he doesn't do it right, he gets pulled and may not go back in the game.

bargs HAS to put in time in practice to get better but let's not lump him in to the category of guys like roy, gay, etc. b/c there are no team expectations there, where there are in toronto now.

[Bryans_Collar]

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That was mentioned pre-game, but the haters don't care.

When Bargs scored 25 points, they hammered him because he was -15.

Today he was +9, but the haters are pointing to Bargs as the reason we lost.

it's not being a hater to point out the fact that he grabs 2-4 boards a game and plays like a **** pussy.

it's the truth.

[Bryans_Collar]

bargs HAS to put in time in practice to get better but let's not lump him in to the category of guys like roy, gay, etc. b/c there are no team expectations there, where there are in toronto now.

wait, what?

Portland is 7 games over .500, and play in the western conf.

You think they'll be satisfied now with a 30 win season if it means giving their young players big minutes?

Those 2 kids from last years draft are a big reason why they're on pace to have a way better record than us, in a harder conference no less.

They're getting big minutes + contributing to winning.

[djsunyc]

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wait, what?

Portland is 7 games over .500, and play in the western conf.

You think they'll be satisfied now with a 30 win season if it means giving their young players big minutes?

Those 2 kids from last years draft are a big reason why they're on pace to have a way better record than us, in a harder conference no less.

They're getting big minutes + contributing to winning.

i know but do you think roy & alridge become this good if they didn't get major minutes last season and allowed to play through their mistakes?

[vado]

Bargs is turning what....23 this year? His stats might not show it but to say he hasn't developed at all is stupid. Giving up on this kid now is stupid, he may not ever be that great of a rebounder but he is young and never played college ball. If we give up and trade him soon we don't get proper value and if he flourishes elsewhere it just results in more *****in and complaining. Good for Colangelo saying he'll wait for him to develop.

[The_Hater]

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i know but do you think roy & alridge become this good if they didn't get major minutes last season and allowed to play through their mistakes?

If I told you that Bargs averaged more mpg than Aldridge last season, would that change your theory at all?

[The_Hater]

Bargs is turning what....23 this year? His stats might not show it but to say he hasn't developed at all is stupid. Giving up on this kid now is stupid, he may not ever be that great of a rebounder but he is young and never played college ball. If we give up and trade him soon we don't get proper value and if he flourishes elsewhere it just results in more *****in and complaining. Good for Colangelo saying he'll wait for him to develop.

For arguments sake, other than his defensive improvement, in what areas has he progressed over last season?

[Harry Palmer]

His stats might not show it but to say he hasn't developed at all is stupid

So basically you are saying that your opinion is unprovable, and the reverse might be provable, but anyone who disagrees with you is stupid?

Well, I guess that's a pretty unchallengeable position, if we accept your tautology.

[Schad]

Bargs is turning what....23 this year? His stats might not show it but to say he hasn't developed at all is stupid.

I would agree; he has regressed. His man-to-man defense is somewhat improved, but he has declined in:

- shooting; his raw FG%, points per shot, and eFG%/TS%...all down.

- rebounding; his rebs/40 and rebound rate...both down.

- shot-blocking; was never good, but it's down.

- fouling; his foul rate is up marginally.

- overall effectiveness; his PER is now the lowest of any Raptors regular. Humphries is slaughtering him, Rasho is beating him handily...even Juan freakin' Dixon is beating him!

It's too early to right him obituary, but Bargs as a sophomore is no better than as a rookie.

[bakafool]

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I would agree; he has regressed. His man-to-man defense is somewhat improved, but he has declined in:

- shooting; his raw FG%, points per shot, and eFG%/TS%...all down.

- rebounding; his rebs/40 and rebound rate...both down.

- shot-blocking; was never good, but it's down.

- fouling; his foul rate is up marginally.

- overall effectiveness; his PER is now the lowest of any Raptors regular. Humphries is slaughtering him, Rasho is beating him handily...even Juan freakin' Dixon is beating him!

It's too early to right him obituary, but Bargs as a sophomore is no better than as a rookie.

That, overall is true.

[elephunk]

I'm not talking about today's game, but something to keep in mind in future games.

Bargnani's rebounding deficiencies can significantly alter the course of a game. If he doesn't go to the boards aggressively, it usually leaves Chris Bosh alone under the basket and that exacts a physical toll.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/NBA/article/291346


I'd very much love to rag on Bosh for settling for those ill advised jumpers instead of driving to the basket every single time, or for not taking over the game, but I couldn't forgive myself for doing so, knowing that we have another prized 7 footer that is only capable of averaging 5.2 rebounds in 35 minutes.

[Schad]

I'm not talking about today's game, but something to keep in mind in future games.

Bargnani's rebounding deficiencies can significantly alter the course of a game. If he doesn't go to the boards aggressively, it usually leaves Chris Bosh alone under the basket and that exacts a physical toll.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/NBA/article/291346


I'd very much love to rag on Bosh for settling for those ill advised jumpers instead of driving to the basket every single time, or for not taking over the game, but I couldn't forgive myself for doing so, knowing that we have another prized 7 footer that is only capable of averaging 5.2 rebounds in 35 minutes.

That's definitely an angle that needs to be considered. Bosh is expected to carry the load offensively, get to the line 8-10 times a game, be our best (sometimes only) player on the glass, and often serve as our primary interior help defender. The improvement of Bargs one-on-one has allowed Bosh to guard the weaker some of the time, and Moon's shot-blocking helps...but that's still one hell of a load to put on Bosh's narrow shoulders for 35+ minutes a game.

[elephunk]

Bosh was 8/11 from the field
Now he's 9/21
So he's 1 for his last 19

[Maternal]

23 rebounds in 11 games? That's a bit over 2 per game. At 7 feet tall 2 or so boards will come to you during the game. Whether it be from a long shot or whatever. So really he makes no effort on the glass.

And people think he should get more PT? Why? How can you look a guy like Humps in the eye and say Bargs will be getting more PT than you, when a guy like Humps can get those rebounds in 2-3 games?

This is not some bush league mixed with polotics. In this league your earn your PT. If you won't work hard, sit your ass on the bench period. At this point Hump is a better player than Bargs and I feel more comfortable calling plays for Hump than Barg. And I thought Bargs was suppose to be some offensive guy?


Getting hot once in a while doesn't mean much.

[reck0n3r]

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I would agree; he has regressed. His man-to-man defense is somewhat improved, but he has declined in:

- shooting; his raw FG%, points per shot, and eFG%/TS%...all down.

- rebounding; his rebs/40 and rebound rate...both down.

- shot-blocking; was never good, but it's down.

- fouling; his foul rate is up marginally.

- overall effectiveness; his PER is now the lowest of any Raptors regular. Humphries is slaughtering him, Rasho is beating him handily...even Juan freakin' Dixon is beating him!

It's too early to right him obituary, but Bargs as a sophomore is no better than as a rookie.

This is pretty frickin' bad.

[kyrils]

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Yeah man, it's so disheartening. Just goes to show that you can never go wrong with the NCAA. Europe is still a huge gamble.

arujo played in the NCAA.