Bucks/Heat/Hornets

Simulack · Post #1 » by **Simulack** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:28 pm

Variant of the other trade I posted since some seemed to think Milwaukee didn't get enough:

Milwaukee trades: Michael Redd, CV
Milwauke receives: Jason Williams, Julian Wright, Hilton Armstrong, Rasual Butler and Miami's 2008 first

Miami trades: Jason Williams, Ricky Davis, Dorell Wright, 2008 first rounder (top 5 protected?)
Miami receives: Michael Redd, Charlie Villanueva

New Orleans trades: Julian Wright, Rasual Butler, Hilton Armstrong and Ryan Bowen
New Orleans receives: Ricky Davis, Dorrell Wright

Bucks get two former lottery picks for Redd/CV, clear cap space with Williams AND get Miami's first rounder this year. If that is not fair, I don't know what is.

Miami tries to salvage their season by winning now. Redd>>Davis and IMO CV>Wright. Are those difference worth the pick? I don't know, it depends on how well they think they can do the rest of the year. They need to go about .666 from here on out to even finish .500. The other major issue is that it leaves CV and Redd to play the 3 since they loss Davis and Wright. I'd like to get Rasual Butler to Miami but need to meddle with it more.

New Orleans trades some junk and two prospects for guys who will help their bench a ton in the short term which is supposedly what they are looking for. Davis helps more now than anyone they give up and Wright arguably does as well.

Post #2 » by **VintaGe36** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:33 pm

IMO NO gets a pretty raw deal.

Simulack · Post #3 » by **Simulack** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:39 pm

VintaGe36 wrote:IMO NO gets a pretty raw deal.

Because they give up two former lottery picks?

I can see that but I posted a Redd trade involving those guys as the main pieces and most who responded acted they were garbage. They do get a young prospect back in Dorrell Wright. Supposedly they want to bolster their bench: Davis has a reaonable contract and could either start or provide back-up mintues at the 2-3 spots.

If they don't like the deal, trade us those two guys/filler contracts (and maybe a first) for Redd and perhaps the Bucks bite.

I thought if any team didn't like it it would be the Heat. :dontknow:

Post #4 » by **loserX** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:41 pm

Miami can't trade their 2008 pick until it's determined that it's in the lottery (since they owe Minny a protected pick). And that won't be until the off-season, at which point you're not allowed to trade expiring contracts like Davis and Williams.

Can't happen.

Simulack · Post #5 » by **Simulack** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:43 pm

loserX wrote:Miami can't trade their 2008 pick until it's determined that it's in the lottery (since they owe Minny a protected pick). And that won't be until the off-season, at which point you're not allowed to trade expiring contracts like Davis and Williams.

Can't happen.

Ah, thanks. Useful information since various Heat trades I've seen have included that pick.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #6 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:47 pm

Heat get the steal of the century if this were to happen. I don't see either Mil or NO accepting this.

Simulack · Post #7 » by **Simulack** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:54 pm

DGrangeRx33 wrote:Heat get the steal of the century if this were to happen. I don't see either Mil or NO accepting this.

Well, its a moot point now but I like it as a Bucks fan. We get two lottery picks and an expiring for Redd and swap CV for a pick that could be in the 5-10 range. I'd bet most Bucks fans would currently swap CV for a mid-first rounder.

I don't see how is that bad for NO's. Dorrell is 22 year old SF prospect, Armstrong is 23 year old C prospect - do they lose there? Or is it swapping Julian Wright for Davis who will help them a lot more this year and next? Butler and Bowen are just junk to make contracts work.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #8 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:58 pm

Simulack wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Well, its a moot point now but I like it as a Bucks fan. We get two lottery picks and an expiring for Redd and swap CV for a pick that could be in the 5-10 range. I'd bet most Bucks fans would currently swap CV for a mid-first rounder.

I don't see how is that bad for NO's. Dorrell is 22 year old SF prospect, Armstrong is 23 year old C prospect - do they lose there? Or is it swapping Julian Wright for Davis who will help them a lot more this year and next? Butler and Bowen are just junk to make contracts work.

The deal only has the Bucks getting one first round pick. With Redd and V going to the Heat with them hardly losing anyone important, I doubt they will still be in the lottery. That team would turn around quickly.

Simulack · Post #9 » by **Simulack** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:04 pm

DGrangeRx33 wrote:The deal only has the Bucks getting one first round pick. With Redd and V going to the Heat with them hardly losing anyone important, I doubt they will still be in the lottery. That team would turn around quickly.

Julian Wright and Hilton Armstrong were both lottery picks in addition to the Miami pick that is irrelevant to argue about since they can't give it anyway.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #10 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:10 pm

Simulack wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Julian Wright and Hilton Armstrong were both lottery picks in addition to the Miami pick that is irrelevant to argue about since they can't give it anyway.

So why would NO give away 2 ex-lottery picks for Ricky Davis and Dorrell Wright? Julian Wright has more potential than Dorrell Wright does, and Ricky Davis is known as a ball hog. He isn't the scorer he used to be, and he will take shots away from the Hornets who should be taking shots. Then they also lose a potential good C. Doesn't make sense. Then the Heat can't even trade a 1st rounder out, so they still get Redd and V, for almost nothing.

How is this a fair trade again?

Simulack · Post #11 » by **Simulack** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:14 pm

You can't have it both ways. At first you said "The deal only has the Bucks getting one first round pick" and acted like Wright/Armstrong were not significant to even mention.

Yet on the Hornets side you act like they are really valuable prospects who are worth more than a 16/4/3 player and a 22 year old who was also a first round pick?

Which is it?

Post #12 » by **BBallFreak** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:20 pm

Even if Miami could trade their pick along with their expirings, I can't see us dealing a lottery pick for Redd. If we get a lottery pick, it will mean a very real need to rebuild, not throw band-aids on the problem...

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #13 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:20 pm

Simulack wrote:You can't have it both ways. At first you said "The deal only has the Bucks getting one first round pick" and acted like Wright/Armstrong were not significant to even mention.

Yet on the Hornets side you act like they are really valuable prospects who are worth more than a 16/4/3 player and a 22 year old who was also a first round pick?

Which is it?

When did I say they were non factors? I said I didn't think they weren't worth Redd and V. As for Davis, he is close to a cancer. No team has ever been that much better because he is on it. The Hornets said they want depth, and your solution is to trade 4 for 2?

Simulack · Post #14 » by **Simulack** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:23 pm

DGrangeRx33 wrote:The Hornets said they want depth, and your solution is to trade 4 for 2?

LOL. Wright, Armstrong and Bowen barely average over 30 minutes a game COMBINED.

I wasn't aware you calculated bench depth by just counting players. Don't all NBA teams have the exact same amount of bench depth then? Why are the Hornets stupidly trying to get more when they have the same as all the other 29 teams in the NBA?

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #15 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:25 pm

Simulack wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

LOL. Wright, Armstrong and Bowen barely average over 30 minutes a game COMBINED.

I wasn't aware you calculated bench depth by just counting players. Don't all NBA teams have the exact same amount of bench depth then? Why are the Hornets stupidly trying to get more when they have the same as all the other 29 teams in the NBA?

No, but when your trading potential for cancer and lesser potential, plus 2 more players who are not non factors then whats the point?

Flash is the Future · Post #16 » by **Flash is the Future** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 12:11 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So why would NO give away 2 ex-lottery picks for Ricky Davis and Dorrell Wright? Julian Wright has more potential than Dorrell Wright does, and Ricky Davis is known as a ball hog. He isn't the scorer he used to be, and he will take shots away from the Hornets who should be taking shots. Then they also lose a potential good C. Doesn't make sense. Then the Heat can't even trade a 1st rounder out, so they still get Redd and V, for almost nothing.

How is this a fair trade again?

Ricky Davis gets less shots on the Heat. Therefore, he scores less. He also doesn't get to take as many shots to find his rhythm (he scores in bunches, and streak scorers need to do this). He's 28, and he's entering his prime. He's still the same scorer he used to be...

DanTown8587 · Post #17 » by **DanTown8587** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:09 am

I don't see how Wade and Redd play together. Plus, New Orleans needs a back-up PG and PF, not two wing players. And with your new trade, who plays down low for the Hornets after Chandler and West?

Flash is the Future · Post #18 » by **Flash is the Future** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:22 am

Wade slashes and passes while Redd shoots. Perfect fit. Wade plays some PG and Redd plays a lot of SF.

DanTown8587 · Post #19 » by **DanTown8587** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:28 am

Flash is the Future wrote:Wade slashes and passes while Redd shoots. Perfect fit. Wade plays some PG and Redd plays a lot of SF.

You play Redd at the 3 and he will get abused, you play Wade at the point and teams make him run around the court chasing their PG. Wade slashes to create his own shot more than he sets up others, so him at the PG would be problematic.

Flash is the Future · Post #20 » by **Flash is the Future** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:33 am

We Cook put Cook at SG and have him guard the PGs. It's not like Wade hasn't played PG for extended periods of the season before due to the injuries of other players, so don't make it seem like it's that big of a deal. Wade is already our playermaker, just as Lebron is Cleveland's playmaker. Redd gets abused at the 2 anyway, so I don't care if he gets abused at the 3.