Bucks-Bobcats Postgame Thread 1/6/2007

[Nowak008]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the 6 steals by Mo. Very impressive.

I'm with Mid on Brewer. I liked J Wright in the draft, but Brewer has been very productive.

[bigkurty]

Wow so I went to church tonight and went in with about 4 minutes left and we were still down 5. What happened? I can't believe we won.

[europa]

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I posted that on the trade board and some thought that wasn't enough for Redd. IMO it is and is a lot more than what Philly got for AI and pretty comparable to what the Sonics got for Ray.

I agree with the comments on the trade board. It's not enough. Two unproven players and a low first-round pick. Redd is worth more than that in my opinion. Even if the Bucks don't follow the model I propose I think they at least have to bring back a proven vet or a no-doubt young prospect. That's at the very least.

Also, keep in mind that the Iverson and Ray trades might not be good barometers for what the Bucks should get for Redd. Iverson had pretty much forced his way out of Philly and the fact the Sixers got so little in return for him got their GM fired. There was an article in ESPN the Magazine talking specifically about how GMs are afraid to deal a top player in light of how bad that trade and the Garnett trade went for their respective teams. And Ray's career is in decline at the age of 32. Neither is true for Redd.

[paul]

If Bogut can put it together like this consistently he will be a complete beast. Finally a positive night for Bucks fans.

Yeah you wouldn't know with some of the reactions on here.

[ClassicJack]

When Bogut touches the ball good things happen.

BTW love how the Bogut bashers are pounding thier basketball credibility (regarding Bogut) even further into the ground by making smart ass remarks about his 25/8/3 on 10-15 from the field.

Save face and give the guy some props.

You can bash the guy when one of his hook shots rim out but you can't give him props when he has a solid game?

Whose bashing him? He played a good game. Bogut playing like this should not be a cause for celebration by the Bogut lovers at this point. He's suppose to play this way. He' played this way before even with Redd on the court. It's not 1 great game a month that people want from Bogut, it's consistency. Tonight he played like he actually likes playing basketball. It's been way too many nights where that just didn't seem to be the case for him.


But please, slob on fellas. Maybe he can put together a few more good ones and you guys can take turns instead of all going in at once.

[rilamann]

I'm not a Bogut basher and I'm not a Bogut homer. He's had an average season. I've expected more. I acknowledged several times that he played GREAT tonight.

Now I want to see this kind of game CONSISTENTLY. Believe me, I would love to be shut up by the guy. LOVE TO.

Im not a Bogut homer,the reason I support Bogut is because on a team full of selfish me first players that could give 2 **** about winning a basketball game Bogut is one of the few guys on the roster who actually plays to win and is bothered by losing

And what i'd love to see is the Bucks actually use Bogut properly CONSISTIENTLY.

We've all seen it 100 times,Bogut will touch the ball in the 1st qtr something good will happen (Bogut will score set up a teammates ect) and then Bogut will be froze out untill the 4th qtr.

And why? so the Chuck brothers shoot us out of ball games night after night.

I realize Bogut has has get more agressive on a nightly bases and tonight was just one game and Bogut aint going to get 25 everytime he gets 15 shots.

But the point is tonight shows you what Bogut is capable of and what kind of impact he can have on winning games when the team actually plays through him over the course of the game.

[Simulack]

Bell pretty much blew whatever good will he earned tonight by it becoming obvious from what Paschke said during the game and from the post-game show that he blames Bucks fans for his shooting woes.

You say you aren't going to give 100% if Milwaukee signs you and then whine when the fans boo you. WHAT A DOUCHE, unbelievable.

Anyone else catch this? Larry K. said Charlie has had it rough and maybe he wouldn't struggle so much if Bucks fans lightened up on him and didn't hurt his feelings.

MY **** GOD.

[BuckFan25226]

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Thats your opinion....mine is that 22 wasn't there...it amazes me how everyone so easily dismisses the "teammate" factor. I will ask again, does Bogut EVER get that many touches in the 4th quarter with Redd there, the answer is HELL NO....Bogut had big games last year against Charlotte and I believe Redd didn't play then either.....plus he up against the great Emeka Okafor, who so many on this board feel is quite great.

They beat the frickin' Bobcats. The game before Bogut couldn't do dick against Brendan freakin' Haywood. He had 13 shots, and that was probably too much considering how bad he looked trying to score on Haywood.

I'm not a Bogut basher or a Bogut supporter. He's a slightly above average player who has serious holes in his offense game. But your Bogut love is 2nd to none. It's kind of admirable actually, your passion. How you're desperately trying to convince yourself and everyone else that he's as worthy of being our #1 pick.


I was excited as hell during this game. Bogut had one hell of a game. But I was more excited that Simmons and Bell finally played like we were hoping they would all year.

[WRau1]

It's good to know that when 3 or 4 guys step up, we can beat DLeague level teams.

[europa]

Bell pretty much blew whatever good will he earned tonight by it becoming obvious from what Paschke said during the game and from the post-game show that he blames Bucks fans for his shooting woes.

You say you aren't going to give 100% if Milwaukee signs you and then whine when the fans boo you. WHAT A DOUCHE, unbelievable.

Anyone else catch this? Larry K. said Charlie has had it rough and maybe he wouldn't struggle so much if Bucks fans lightened up on him and didn't hurt his feelings.

MY **** GOD.

Give McGlocklin some props. He called Bell out for that and said that has nothing to do with his struggles and he needs to look only in the mirror for his answers.

[europa]

It's good to know that when 3 or 4 guys step up, we can beat DLeague level teams.

I'm actually amazed at how bad the Bobcats are. Okafor, Wallace, Richardson and Felton is a promising quartet of players. There's really no excuse for them to be as bad as they are. I think they're much more of a disappointment than the Bucks to be honest.

[icat2000]

Meh. So many dingbats on this board.

Nice win by the Bucks. Team ball wins everytime. Trade Redd for whatever you can get and lets move forward.

[Newz]

Meh. So many dingbats on this board.

Nice win by the Bucks. Team ball wins everytime. Trade Redd for whatever you can get and lets move forward.

So what were the Bucks playing on that 5 game winning streak with Redd in the line-up?

[WRau1]

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I'm actually amazed at how bad the Bobcats are. Okafor, Wallace, Richardson and Felton is a promising quartet of players. There's really no excuse for them to be as bad as they are. I think they're much more of a disappointment than the Bucks to be honest.

Yeah, I kind of agree. I just don't think that the Bobcats are that good. Felton plays out of control a lot of that time, JRich plays 0 D, Wallace is by far the best player but his D is vastly overrated and Okafor is playing out of position. Not to mention there missing two big bench pieces in Adam/May.

[ClassicJack]

Meh. So many dingbats on this board.

Nice win by the Bucks. Team ball wins everytime. Trade Redd for whatever you can get and lets move forward.

Yeah, you're not biased at all.

[Newz]

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Yeah, I kind of agree. I just don't think that the Bobcats are that good. Felton plays out of control a lot of that time, JRich plays 0 D, Wallace is by far the best player but his D is vastly overrated and Okafor is playing out of position. Not to mention there missing two big bench pieces in Adam/May.

They also don't have a guy who can score on the block. Okafur is a dominant defensive player/rebounder but he isn't much of an offensive player. They are weak at their C position and like you said he has to play out of position.

Richardson and Wallace are similar type players, they are slashers and not really creators.

Felton is ridiculously overrated by a lot of people as well, IMO.

The Bobcats could also use a good outside shooter as well.

They have a decent core, but it just doesn't mix well together.

[Simulack]

I agree with the comments on the trade board. It's not enough. Two unproven players and a low first-round pick. Redd is worth more than that in my opinion.

I see your point. It really depends on what you think of Wright and to a lesser extent Armstrong as prospects along with a low future first. You can describe it positively as two lottery picks from 2006 and 2007 and a future first for Redd or less positively as two unproven players and a very low first for Redd. All depends on how you view those guys.

I'd rather get somebody more proven (like Brewer) but its harder to find teams who would be willing to trade those players for Redd.

I think we disagree a bit on Allen. Although older, most have always viewed him as a tier above Redd. In addition, the Celtics were willing to give up more than other teams might have been because they were in all out "win mode" more than any lottery team has been in the recent past. Overall I think its a pretty good barometer for a Redd trade despite the fact that Redd is younger

[kebzach]

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CV was very quiet tonight, but on the whole over the past month or so he's been far more productive than Yi in the 4 imo, save for Yi's breakout game of course.

I don't know if I'd call it "far more effective".

I just ran numbers for the games from December 7th through today, and I projected their numbers out to a "per 48 minute" average.

Charlie:

21.1 points
8.9 boards
.7 assists
2.5 turnovers
.5 steals
1.1 blocks

Yi:

18.1 points
11.0 boards
2.1 assists
3.3 turnovers
1.2 steals
1.6 blocks

Charlie (without his best game in the group, which was the 1-2-08 game at Miami projected out over 48 minutes):

20.0 points
8.7 boards
.6 assists
2.4 turnovers
.5 steals
1.2 blocks

Yi (without the 12-22-07 Charlotte game):

17.1 points
11.0 boards
2.0 assists
3.3 turnovers
1.1 steals
1.6 blocks

There are differences there, but perhaps not the gap that you might have thought.

[BuckFan25226]

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So what were the Bucks playing on that 5 game winning streak with Redd in the line-up?

We just got lucky, don't you get that? If Redd was hurt all year, that would of been a 10 game winning streak. Because Bogut would be averaging 57/25/14 if Redd wasn't here.


We're an average at best team with Redd right now. We're a bad team without Redd. I'm trying to figure out why this is so difficult for people to grasp.

I think it's sad this thread had to turn into a Bogut debate thread. When we should be excited the way Bobby and Bell played. When Redd comes back, if those 2 can get back to normal, this could be a solid team.

[icat2000]

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Yeah, you're not biased at all.

Talking about yourself again Jackie. One word describes you best - Mirror.