numbas wrote:ok so the argument here is rando fan thinks pierce is an allstar but thinks that u pete r overating him, i think thats down but wut is the difference is how good u think pierce is?
Basically, my argument is that Pierce is playing as more of a team player this year, mostly because of the presence of KG.
Pete's argument is that Pierce is the same player that he has always been, that the only way that KG and RA help the team is by giving Pierce more veteran presence and talent around him, but that Pierce hasn't changed.
Basically, a group of people wanted to trade Pierce last year, and a group wanted to stick with him. I was borderline. About 95% of the time I didn't want to trade him, then I found the idea acceptable, as long as we could get equal value for him. Pete didn't want to trade him. So the people who didn't want to trade him are using the success of the team this year as a justification for that. They are minimizing KG and RA's contributions and inflating PP's. In their eyes, KG isn't a unique player, the kind that comes along once every 20 years, according to Cousy, he's just another guy, just veteran help for PP that happened to come along. It could have been A.I., or Pau, or J.O., because the real meat of the franchise is PP.
The only problem with their argument is that the success of the franchise is so obviously due to the new people who have come in here.
And finally, Paul Pierce has had a problem with hogging the ball in the past. Actually, in the view of the Pierce ball-washers, he has only had a problem with the
perception of hogging the ball--he doesn't really hog it. I'm not really sure how that works. I mean, you can be a superstar or a regular player or anybody and not hog the ball or be accused of it--I never hear of Rondo or Perkins or RA or KG or anybody else on the team being accused of hogging the ball. So apparently people just out of the clear blue sky attached this label to Pierce, for no reason. It had nothing to do with the fact that he has spent the past five years of his career regularly dribbling into double and triple teams, and finishing with awkward or no shots, (while his teammates were covered by the remaining two defensive players, according to Pete?) See, the way the ball-washers see the game, you're a hero, a warrior, if you take a beating from three guys in the lane and end up standing on the line for two foul shots, when a simple pass would have found an open teammate. And apparently, according to Pete, Pierce is playing the same way that he always has. It looks to me like he is looking to pass more first, because he is, but you can't always go by reality in these matters. You have to decide whether or not it fits your agenda.
Apparently, while three or four guys covered Pierce on those drives, nobody else was open. You'll have to ask Pete how that works. And apparently, having four other NBA players on the court with you = "not having anyone to pass to." Apparently, Delonte, Gomes, etc., none of those guys could be trusted to knock down a shot.
And by the way, I don't know how you figured out from my posts that I think Pierce is an all star. Even though I say again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again that I think he's an amazingly talented player, and even though I am very precise and compartmentalized in my criticism of him, I'm really "hating on him" and "throwing out anything that will stick".
You see, you can't go by what I say to understand what I say. You have to first run it through your agenda so that it no longer resembles what I say. Ask Pete.
