who's better in NBA history than Antawn?

[jmrosenth]

Not to hijack the thread, but what does a 20/10 all-star go for in free agency?

[Spence]

Not to hijack the thread, but what does a 20/10 all-star go for in free agency?

$ 7 mil per, according to some here.
I don't know what the market for AJ will be. It might be more complicated in his case. Few teams have the cap space to sign another team's guys to big money and of those that do, some seem like they are rebuilding and might not want to spend big bucks on a proven scorer and rebounder who is on the wrong side of 30. [Like Philly, for example. They should have a lot of space. Sure, they could use AJ -- anyone could -- but is he really the right play for them?]

If AJ were a couple of years younger, I think he'd be looking at gigantic dollars. As it is, he might have to settle for merely huge money. He deserves it and I hope he gets it wearing the same uniform he does right now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wasn't McGinnis on that Pacer team that won an ABA title or two? Perhaps with Freddie Lewis as well?

You go back before my time. I remember the good ABA Pacers team that had Billy Knight and Len Elmore and a slightly older McGinnis. I don't remember the team you speak of, fishercob.

Here's a link to the championship Pacers of 1972-1973.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/INA/1973.html

McGinnis was a baller even at age 22. Averaged 24pts, 12 rebs in the playoffs and leading the team that had Freddie Lewis, Mel Daniels, Darnell Hillman, Don Buse, and former Bullet Gus Johnson on it.

[Ruzious]

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$ 7 mil per, according to some here.

But the others say you can't win with him because of his defense. Ironically, they're mostly the ones who think it's crazy to think we can sign him for $8 mil a year.

[Ruzious]

I'm sure McGinnis was a great player early in his career with Indy, but he was awful for Philly. He didn't seem to get that when you have Dr. J as your teammate, you should try to be more of a team player. Mostly I remember him forcing things and turning the ball over - while his backup - Bobby Jones - did all the little things and was a phenominal team player and hustler.

[fishercob]

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You go back before my time. I remember the good ABA Pacers team that had Billy Knight and Len Elmore and a slightly older McGinnis. I don't remember the team you speak of, fishercob.

Nah, I'm only 31. I just know a decent amount about hoops history and worked a camp with Freddie Lewis some years ago. I got some great ABA stories from him.

[Doug_Blew]

Vlade Divac comes to mind. He used to put up those dipsy doo layups under the arms of the defenders. And some believed Divac was just as good as Kobe.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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But the others say you can't win with him because of his defense. Ironically, they're mostly the ones who think it's crazy to think we can sign him for $8 mil a year.

I've seen growth in Jamison's game the past two seasons. He's a better defender now than ever.

I rarely disagree with Dat on basketball stuff, but I think you CAN win with Jamison at SF. He's not going to outperform Garnett, Rasheed, Dirk at PF in the playoffs. He can more than hold his own at SF, however.

[Induveca]

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I've seen growth in Jamison's game the past two seasons. He's a better defender now than ever.

I rarely disagree with Dat on basketball stuff, but I think you CAN win with Jamison at SF. He's not going to outperform Garnett, Rasheed, Dirk at PF in the playoffs. He can more than hold his own at SF, however.

AJ has stepped up huge this year. Best all around season ever. One thing that is interesting, while we're obviously a much better team with Arenas is we just seem like a much more PROFESSIONAL squad without him lately.

Look at the wiretap today for instance (about AJ insisting they break up the locker room, making the rookies sit in between veterans so they don't goof around with each other pregame). It's the sort of logical, almost Spurs like move that makes me so much more confident in this squad/organization going forward.

[fishercob]

That's unfair to Gilbert. He's a jokester, but could never be accused of being ill-prepared for games. The issue with the kids is that they're not getting mentally ready for games -- and that's been entirely independent of Gil.

[Brenice]

As for that "scoop" shot stuff Jamison throws up, I don't think Magic, Dandridge, Bernard King, George McGinnis, or anyone else mentioned above, does it as well as Jamison. I can't think of someone who does it better, it may be, but no one comes to mind.

[Wiz99]

Vlade Divac comes to mind. He used to put up those dipsy doo layups under the arms of the defenders. And some believed Divac was just as good as Kobe.

Vlade was good. I really liked his game. His one all star season wasn't even his best. His second to last season in LA he averaged 16/10.5 & 4 assists

[Wiz99]

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I've seen growth in Jamison's game the past two seasons. He's a better defender now than ever.

I rarely disagree with Dat on basketball stuff, but I think you CAN win with Jamison at SF. He's not going to outperform Garnett, Rasheed, Dirk at PF in the playoffs. He can more than hold his own at SF, however.

And where does Caron play then? At the 2, where he'll be a step slower than most of the shooting guards he has to cover. I agree that AJ is less of a liability at SF, where's he merely just slow, rather than at PF where he's slow and small. But we'd then be slow at the 2 spot as well.

[Induveca]

That's unfair to Gilbert. He's a jokester, but could never be accused of being ill-prepared for games. The issue with the kids is that they're not getting mentally ready for games -- and that's been entirely independent of Gil.

Online poker at halftime? XBox before the game starts?

Dunno, I love Gilbert (as you can tell by my avatar) but there is something to this..............would AJ step up and say something like this if Gil was still around doing the same stuff on a nightly basis?

[dobrojim]

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Vlade was good. I really liked his game. His one all star season wasn't even his best. His second to last season in LA he averaged 16/10.5 & 4 assists

Vlade was a principle reason why Webber was actually productive
in SacTown.

Bobby Jones is one of my all time fav players

classic and very typical sequence for him would be to block a shot,
get out on the wing in the break, finish with a unspectacular but
100% reliable dunk.

then hustle back down court for the next play

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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And where does Caron play then? At the 2, where he'll be a step slower than most of the shooting guards he has to cover. I agree that AJ is less of a liability at SF, where's he merely just slow, rather than at PF where he's slow and small. But we'd then be slow at the 2 spot as well.

Great question. I don't know is my answer.

A scenario could be Caron at the 2 with a PG like Lowry, a potentially a GREAT defender, at the 1. Those three with Blatche and Haywood kick serious butt IMHO.

Bottom line is liabilities or not defensively, Caron's going to hold his own with 80-90% of the SGs and Jamison will also hold his own with 80-90% of the SFs.

[Ruzious]

Bobby Jones is one of my all time fav players

classic and very typical sequence for him would be to block a shot,
get out on the wing in the break, finish with a unspectacular but
100% reliable dunk.

then hustle back down court for the next play

Funny you should say that when he just got cut by Denver.

What's that? Oh, it's the other Bobby Jones. Never mind.

But seriously, I can't think of anyone like the one from UNC. Maybe a 6'9 Battier. But Jones was like non-stop all the time - like Steve Nash.

[AFM]

Jan Vesely.

[penbeast0]

King and also Alex English. English was also just an uncanny inside scorer.

Thanks for adding English. Someone posted that game Fat Lever went 30/15/10/5 on Jordan's Bulls and watching English shoot about 8 sort of one handed push shots from odd angles inside the lane made me remember how unorthodox he could be and yet still efficient.

Didn't remember Lever as nearly that much of a pure 15-20 foot jumpshooter either but that's about all he was shooting except for a couple of breakaway layups off steals.

[Zonkerbl]

You'll nailed everyone I could think of.

The original AD and his incredible butt power. That guy couldn't get 2 inches off the floor but would pound the rock and get you off balance with a series of moves and pump fakes then he would flip some AJ shot on you or get fouled doing it.

Bernard King was a favorite of mine when he came to Washington. After he had lost like 80% of the cartilage in I think it was his left knee, he couldn't get off the ground anymore so he had to be creative in getting his shot off. That is an amazing story. A man with so little cartilage in his knee and at his age was still a top NBA player. The young NBA players need to study these legends.

Bobby D was actually the first to come to mind though it's hard to remember all his moves since that was back in the 70's. I mostly remember him for the move he would do right down the middle with the ball over his head going from side to side as he floated to the hoop. I can remember being a kid on the black top coping his moves and yelling Bobby D as I went to the hoop.

Bullet Fever. Got to love it. Happens to me every year.

Holy cow, hands. You've been here since 2008?