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The Real Reason We Lost...Rebounding

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Post#21 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 12:50 pm

supersub15 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



If you're saying that we lost the game last night because of Calderon, then you really are biased. There are no 2 ways about it.


never said we lost because of Calderon (you are thinking too much).. we had a typical Toronto Maple Leafs 3rd period collapse... must be the MLSE way

but on the other hand... facts are facts.. if TJ was playing this game.. the whole board would have been bashing him and wishing he was traded. that you can't deny.

you have seen this board ever since TJ went down.. it's totally different from when TJ was still playing games... it's a double standard that this forum represents.
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Post#22 » by supersub15 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 12:52 pm

rdtx2005 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



never said we lost because of Calderon (you are thinking too much).. we had a typical Toronto Maple Leafs 3 period collapse.

but on the other hand... facts are facts.. if TJ was playing this game.. the whole board would have been bashing him and wishing he was traded. that you can't deny.

you have seen this board ever since TJ went down.. it's totally different from when TJ was still playing games... it's a double standard that this forum represents.


So because the board would have wanted to bash TJ in case of a loss, you've decided to preempt and bash Calderon. An eye for an eye.

I've seen it all.
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Post#23 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 12:53 pm

supersub15 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



So because the board would have wanted to bash TJ in case of a loss, you've decided to preempt and bash Calderon. An eye for an eye.

I've seen it all.


too bad the eye you are using is blind

I didn't even bash Calderon.. no idea where in the world you got that idea.. really now.. you have nice paper threads.. stick to them ;)

just because i agree with his statement in 'general' does not mean i'm bashing Calderon.. get your head out of your ass man.

the board bashes TJ Ford regardless.. you know it and I know it. doesn't mean that i'm bashing Calderon at this very moment.

We lost because we had a typical Toronto Maple Leafs collapse.. or did you not READ that part. This loss was a team effort.
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Post#24 » by REM » Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:07 pm

rdtx2005 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



too bad the eye you are using is blind

I didn't even bash Calderon.. no idea where in the world you got that idea.. really now.. you have nice paper threads.. stick to them ;)

just because i agree with his statement in 'general' does not mean i'm bashing Calderon.. get your head out of your ass man.

the board bashes TJ Ford regardless.. you know it and I know it. doesn't mean that i'm bashing Calderon at this very moment.

We lost because we had a typical Toronto Maple Leafs collapse.. or did you not READ that part. This loss was a team effort.


No one even mentioned the PG's in this thread. You're basically trying to start trouble.
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Post#25 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:10 pm

REM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



No one even mentioned the PG's in this thread. You're basically trying to start trouble.


I didn't even mentioned anything about the PGs, check my 1st post of this thread.... it's Supersub15 misinterpreting my response.

1st post:

"there is a lot of truth in that statement.." (and the truth is about TJ Ford.. no mention of Calderon whatsoever)

Supersub15:

"you must be bashing Calderon.."

my reply:

"no i'm not.. the Raptors had a typical 3rd period Maple Leafs collapse"

Supersub15:

"You are bashing Calderon"
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Post#26 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:15 pm

If I wanted to cause trouble.. i can easily do it by creating another thread.
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Post#27 » by chsh22 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:50 pm

In a way I'm glad we lost. If we had just coasted to a win and LeBron hadn't heated up, we would have thought we were getting back on track. We still have a tendency to blow leads, and somehow, more than anything else, that is hurting is in games.

If I had to summarize our two biggest problems, I wouldn't be looking at individual stats like rebounding, instead it would be:
- We don't very often jump on teams like we did yesterday.
- When we do jump on teams, like we did yesterday, we don't maintain our composure and lead.

We've won games where we've been outrebounded.
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Post#28 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:40 pm

supersub15 wrote:If you're saying that we lost the game last night because of Calderon, then you really are biased. There are no 2 ways about it.


Who the **** said that? Paranoid much? I think there's a lot of truth to the original state also. TJ would have been absolutely murdered on these boards for a loss like this and people would have been screaming that Jose would have been a miracle worker as a starter.

If there's one positive result from TJ's injury it's that we can now start discussing the real problems with the team rather than trying to foist off all the blame on the team's second best player. Sadly, I'd rather have TJ healthy regardless and even now people would rather blame Mitchell than look at the problems. This wasn't really the thread for that kind of discussion, but honestly, just a harmless, truthful remark, otherwise unrelated to the discussion isn't a big problem in a decent thread so long as nobody decides to misinterpret it and blow it out of proportion.

As for the rebounding, the Cavs are one of the select few teams in the NBA who actually have the personnel to completely destroy the Raptors on the glass. They double and triple team Bosh on the glass on both ends of the floor to the extent that you can't tell if Chris is going for an offensive or a defensive rebound. After Bosh, the Raptors are incredibly short on rebounders. Humphries and Delfino are excellent but didn't play much for other reasons and Moon is solid. After that the team is atrocious. Parker is smart enough as a player to realize that the boards were there to be had while Bosh did the dirty work but AP doesn't have the endurance to play 40 minutes and he visibly wore down in the second half. Kapono, Rasho, Dixon and Jose are all poor rebounders at best and Bargnani might be the worst rebounder in the NBA the relative position on the floor that he has, or should have.

The Raptors rely incredibly heavily on their forwards for rebounds. Their centers don't do a lot- Rasho and Bargnani- because they're poor and atrocious respectively. Their guards Jose, TJ, Parker and Dixon don't do a whole lot, in part by design but moreso because they aren't very good rebounders, Delfino is the only player who isn't explicitly a forward who actually grabs rebounds on the team and even he plays a substantial amount at SF. This puts a ridiculous burden on Bosh, Moon and Humphries to grab rebounds because if they don't match the opposing team on their own then the Raptors are doomed to be destroyed on the glass.
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Post#29 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:55 pm

TJ is an average rebounder.. but since he is on the shelf.. that is a moot point.
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Post#30 » by supersub15 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:01 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Who the **** said that? Paranoid much? I think there's a lot of truth to the original state also. TJ would have been absolutely murdered on these boards for a loss like this and people would have been screaming that Jose would have been a miracle worker as a starter.


rdtx changed his posts a few times (check the edits) before he settled on a less antagonistic stance. You weren't here early in the morning. :roll:

And yes, I find it humorous that the TJ crowd picked this particular game to bash Calderon. He's not a miracle worker alone, just as TJ is not a miracle worker alone.
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Post#31 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:05 pm

supersub15 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
rdtx changed his posts a few times (check the edits) before he settled on a less antagonistic stance. You weren't here early in the morning. :roll:


same message applies (less colourful).. you are a fool.

And yes, I find it humorous that the TJ crowd picked this particular game to bash Calderon. He's not a miracle worker alone, just as TJ is not a miracle worker alone.


again.. you are blowing things out of proportion.. nowhere did ANYONE bashed Calderon directly..

it's you, that is too sensitive and took offense to a rather meaningless comment.
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Post#32 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:14 pm

supersub15 wrote:And yes, I find it humorous that the TJ crowd picked this particular game to bash Calderon. He's not a miracle worker alone, just as TJ is not a miracle worker alone.


Where is this "crowd" you speak of? I see a lot of people claiming the team misses TJ. I'd expect even more people claiming the team misses Jose if/when he ever gets hurt. There will always be the odd wacko, but that hardly counts as a crowd.
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Post#33 » by Death Knight » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:19 pm

rdtx strike again..........

Ignore him guys. His stuborned agenda towards the whole TJ-Jose thing has made him quite paranoid.
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Post#34 » by J Dilla » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:21 pm

What I said is true. I know you guys remember how many anti-TJ threads popped up after losses when he was playing. The Raptors have played like 13 games without him and they have played like **** but no one has even criticized Jose. Double standards...
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Post#35 » by Death Knight » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:37 pm

hump43 wrote:What I said is true. I know you guys remember how many anti-TJ threads popped up after losses when he was playing. The Raptors have played like 13 games without him and they have played like **** but no one has even criticized Jose. Double standards...


Consider this, when TJ was playing, he had Jose backing him up. With Jose starting and TJ not being around, you should learn to cut Calderon some slack. He doesn't have a capable back up pg to give him sufficient rest or to take pressure off of him. Everytime he gets his rest, he has to go back in immediately because either Juan Dixon or Darrick Martin is messing things up. When Jose has a bad game, the Raptors have no chance to win. When TJ was starting, and he had a bad game, Jose can step right in for him and still give the Raptors a chance to win. Who is going to step up if and when Jose has a bad game? Milt Palacio?

To say no one has criticized Jose is beyond ignorance. Or maybe you haven't been following the board close enough.

- Jose's bad defensive.
- Jose being too passive and not being aggressive enough........not driving.
- Jose not taking advantage of fast breaks or when the Raptors have numbers.

Do any of these things ring a bell to you? There should be more. I'll let you come up with them.
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Post#36 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:37 pm

Death Knight wrote:rdtx strike again..........

Ignore him guys. His stuborned agenda towards the whole TJ-Jose thing has made him quite paranoid.


all because I replied in agreement to hump43? LOL.. you are something DK..

why aren't you calling out SS15 for being paranoid? he started it ;)
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Post#37 » by Death Knight » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:43 pm

rdtx2005 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



all because I replied in agreement to hump43? LOL.. you are something DK..

why aren't you calling out SS15 for being paranoid? ;)


Admit it rdtx, you have let the Calderclones get to you both psychologically and mentally. You have let them change the way you post and what you have to say in your posts.

I've seen you push your paranoid agenda more than SS...
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Post#38 » by rdtx2005 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 4:01 pm

Death Knight wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Admit it rdtx, you have let the Calderclones get to you both psychologically and mentally. You have let them change the way you post and what you have to say in your posts.

I've seen you push your paranoid agenda more than SS...


so by agreeing with hump43, that gives SS15 the right to 'assume' that i'm bashing Calderon? I wasn't even 'hinting' at anything until mr. drama queen replied.

are you blind?

perhaps you should admit you have an inflated ego and it gets the better of you at times.
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Post#39 » by distracted » Mon Jan 7, 2008 4:07 pm

Rebounding is not a big problem for this team, unless it's also a problem for the 26 other teams who keep the other team off the offensive boards worse than we do (that's right kids, 4th best team in the league at defensive rebounding, check knickerblogger). We had a bad game, and you can't play smallball against a team with bigs who rebound that well.

As for the Calderon/TJ debate, there were times TJ was blamed for losses when the team broke down offensively at the end of games, because TJ is supposed to lead the team. Calderon didn't seem to take any of this criticism last night. Most times it was not warranted criticism on TJ, just as it would not be warranted on Calderon last night, but it was still present.

The one major difference might be this: when the raps struggle to score for long stretches like they did last night, TJ tries to take the team on his back offensively, Jose keeps running our **** (there have been arguements for which is better, but I won't get into it). TJs approach brings him directly into the eye of the fans, so if it doesn't work, he becomes the chucker who caused our team to lose, whereas Calderon doesn't try it, so the team as a whole looks soft instead of him.
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Post#40 » by Death Knight » Mon Jan 7, 2008 4:24 pm

rdtx2005 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



so by agreeing with hump43, that gives SS15 the right to 'assume' that i'm bashing Calderon? I wasn't even 'hinting' at anything until mr. drama queen replied.

are you blind?

perhaps you should admit you have an inflated ego and it gets the better of you at times.


First of all, this really has nothing to do with SS. I am talking to you and about you only. You brought SS into the discussion to deflect your paranoid agenda away from the discussion.

Second of all, what I said about you is based on your past history. It's not just about this thread and what you just said now. It's everything with you in the past and present. You weren't bashing Calderon in this thread, that is true. But I never said anything regarding SS claiming you were bashing Calderon in the first place. I was referring to your agenda as a whole based on past and present history of your posts.

Inflated ego? Let me tell you this...I'm not here to impress anyone, be a yes man, or just say what people what to hear. If the truth hurts someone, then I can't help them. You just have to deal with it.

You have let the Calderonclone get to you and you can't even admit to that because you are too paranoid.

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