Can We Agree How Much Tj Means to the Raptors Now?

[rdtx2005]

I can't wait till TJ gets back. It'll be interesting how he gets his next stinger. TJ is not valuable to this team, we need someone who can play in more then 45 games a year.
I hate dissing TJ cause when he came back from injury with the bucks he was a feel good stoy and I was rooting for him. Now that hes here its frustrating as hell to watch his out of control play and then when he starts to play well he gets injured.
As a fan of this team I wish we never extended him. 8 mil for a half season? Jose will surely want that matched considering he can get through 82 games.

wow... what a load of BS coming from your mouth.

1. to say TJ is not valuable to this team is utterly stupid.. the team is 5-7 since TJ went down
2. 45 games a year?.. TJ has played more games than Chris Bosh over the last 2 years.. where are you getting this 45 games a year from?
3. out of control play? TJ has arguably been the best Raptor this year.
4. As a fan of this team.. i wish there were more rational fans.

[Death Knight]

rdtx........lol

Quit going after weak posters. That was too easy..........raptorry is obviously an ignorant poster.

[Reignman]

I don't think anyone ever said this team doesn't need TJ.

If TJ was healthy, and Jose was injured, this team would miss Jose just as much.

With the lack of stars on this team, Forderon is needed.

Jose is no longer equal to TJ in terms of making a difference on this team.

I was on the fence during the offseason on who should be our starter, but this season it is clear that TJ is the better player overall, he can create, score and defend better.

So, IMO, your statement is false, because teams definately miss their starters more than their role players (no matter how good they are).

My major issue with Jose is that even though he puts up great stats (assists, fg%, ass/to), as I watch the games I realize that he doesn't really have much of an impact in the game. He turns down open lanes, has COMPLETELY STOPPED attacking the basket on fast break opportunities, and rarely looks for his own shot. You cannot play the PG position effectively pounding the ball behind the arc and then making lateral passes. I think he has the ability to drive more, score more and create better looks for his teammates, but he doesn't have the mental make up to do it, or dare I say, he seems hesitant to take any risks at the expense of his stats for reasons unknown to me.

Jose is the epitomy of the "soft" label this team has garnered. It sucks cuz the guy has the ability to do more.

[bychai]

TJ is able to make the "big shots" in the 4th quarter. We don't have anyone willing to do that right now. Bosh being tentative in the 4th doesn't help either.

[dagger]

calderon is like a brevin knight. Great assist numbers with 10 points but does not elevate peoples games. Ford has better potential to do that.

I thought Jose elevated Jamario Moon pretty well yesterday. We need Ford for two reasons - he does score, and we do need scoring. And the second unit needs a real point guard, and the sight of Dixon and Darrick Martin running the point makes me want to vomit.

[Death Knight]

-= original quote snipped =-



Jose is no longer equal to TJ in terms of making a difference on this team.

I was on the fence during the offseason on who should be our starter, but this season it is clear that TJ is the better player overall, he can create, score and defend better.

So, IMO, your statement is false, because teams definately miss their starters more than their role players (no matter how good they are).

My major issue with Jose is that even though he puts up great stats (assists, fg%, ass/to), as I watch the games I realize that he doesn't really have much of an impact in the game. He turns down open lanes, has COMPLETELY STOPPED attacking the basket on fast break opportunities, and rarely looks for his own shot. You cannot play the PG position effectively pounding the ball behind the arc and then making lateral passes. I think he has the ability to drive more, score more and create better looks for his teammates, but he doesn't have the mental make up to do it, or dare I say, he seems hesitant to take any risks at the expense of his stats for reasons unknown to me.

Jose is the epitomy of the "soft" label this team has garnered. It sucks cuz the guy has the ability to do more.

You are right, but this team still needs Jose even when TJ comes back. TJ is not ready to run this team all by himself without a capable back up yet.

Agree or disagree?

Disagreeing means you want Dixon over Jose...

[deknow]

The responses in this thread completely miss the most important reason why TJ is needed back: Defense.

Jose:opponent efg% .562
TJ:opponent efg% .397

Everyone focuses on offense on the board. Jose fanboys don't even know that the game is played at both ends.

I remember last year when the Jose - TJ debate was at an all-time high and Jose fanboys were screaming Jose is the superior PG and much better defender because hedoesn't get posted up. Guess what fanboys? Opposing teams don't have to post him up they can blow by him with one bounce of the basketball!

[ajmal]

-= original quote snipped =-




Look at Toronto's bench without Jose and tell me he didn't make them look better.

Who Bargnani? who plays better as a starter?
Who Kapono? who averaged 10 points in Miami?
Who Delfino? who chucks as much as juan dixon?
Graham? Baston? Hump? (mabey hump)

[JN]

-we need both to win
-jose is maybe a better pg
-tj is a the better player
-we need tjs scoring

Hold on here.

If one the better player then he is the better pojnt guard.

The problem all along is that some people make there jusgments based on style of play, which is silly,.

[deknow]

-= original quote snipped =-



No offense, but would somebody please explain to me how a player averaging almost 15 ppg and 10 apg as a starter, and one that is currently 2nd in the league in assists per minute isn't creating? Most teams would be estatic with such production but in Raptorland, suddenly this is a problem?

I know that they're different players, but I'm confused how all the losing has suddenly fallen on Jose's shoulders? Especially when now the drop-off to the back-up PG has now fallen off a cliff.

Okay, the main problem I see on offense right now is the fact that teams are playing us so tight on the perimeter our shooters can't get any looks. What that means is there is all kinds of room for our PG to get in the lane and score! TJ was doing it at will this year, and when the defense would finally collapse, he would find guys on the perimeter. We miss that, it loosens up the defense.

So TJ would have shut down Lebron himself and helped close a 19 rebound deficit?

No but he would've taken advantage of the offensive opportunities the defense gave us. Its clear Bosh doesn't want to and Jose doesn't have the quicks or the intelligence or both to get in the lane. He did it once yesterday and it got us 2pts.

[Reignman]

-= original quote snipped =-



You are right, but this team still needs Jose even when TJ comes back. TJ is not ready to run this team all by himself without a capable back up yet.

Agree or disagree?

Disagreeing means you want Dixon over Jose...

Completely agree. I'm not saying Jose isn't important, in fact, I'm saying the complete opposite. Since Jose became starter, he should have grabbed the bull by the horns, show the league what he's all about. Instead, you see this passive, no impact player who has the skills to make a difference.

Let's just say if CB4 is driving this car, TJ used to ride shot gun and sometimes even take over the wheel. When TJ got injured, Jose should have called "shot gun", instead he has decided to ride in the back with the rest of the team.

[ajmal]

-= original quote snipped =-



I thought Jose elevated Jamario Moon pretty well yesterday. We need Ford for two reasons - he does score, and we do need scoring. And the second unit needs a real point guard, and the sight of Dixon and Darrick Martin running the point makes me want to vomit.

I am not saying we need a Calderon. That was not the intent of my post. Just that people should realize that Jose stats are inflated. I remember a couple plays last night where he help the ball to about the 6 second mark just pick and roll and pick and pop till he finally realized he didn't have time and three it to Moon for the "lucky" three. Now TJ is guilty of this too, but at least he drives it and dishes. When was the last time you guys saw Jose dish and drive on a consistent basis.

[Death Knight]

-= original quote snipped =-
Everyone focuses on offense on the board. Jose fanboys don't even know that the game is played at both ends.

There has been so much emphasis on defense......don't know what board you have been on though. Every single player's defense has been discussed in full detail on this board...from Jose to Moon to Kapono to Bargnani, etc......

[Northern_Raptor]

calderon is like a brevin knight. Great assist numbers with 10 points but does not elevate peoples games. Ford has better potential to do that.

Very accurate comparison.

[nordique]

Now it's time for 'Jose doesn't take risks' or 'Jose doesn't create', if Jose is out it will be 'TJ shoots to much' or 'TJ is out of control'. Fact is we need BOTH, but this is realgm... every time we lose a game these kind of threads flourish.

[HiJiNX]

IMO, what we miss most about TJ Ford is his fearlessness and leadership on the court. He has a competitive spirit and a will to win that no other player on this team can match (except for maybe Garbajosa, but Garbajosa isn't talented enough to transfer that competitiveness into huge results).

TJ Ford was always the one who bailed us out when we were floundering or made the key score down the stretch when we were stagnant.

[Cassius]

-= original quote snipped =-



Hold on here.

If one the better player then he is the better pojnt guard.

The problem all along is that some people make there jusgments based on style of play, which is silly,.

No, Kobe is a better player than Calderon but Jose is a better point guard.

You could even argue that Calderon is a better point guard than Iverson.

That doesn't make him a better overall player than TJ.

[Reignman]

Could someone please explain this bs about Jose being a better Point guard than TJ?

Not only is TJ the better player but he's also the better point.

Jose's game right now is wack. I haven't used that word in about 10 years, but that's exactly what comes to mind when I see Jose play.

What happened to this guy? Just last year he was attacking the basket, being more creative and just a more aggressive player overall. His D has always been non-existant.

Anyway, the point is Jose hasn't been making any of his teammates better and this has put all the pressure on CB4.

One thing I will guarantee is NOBODY is paying Jose more than 7 mil, because GM's will study tape rather than just look at stats.

[elephunk]

Seconds Left? It's T.J. Time
"If we need one play for a win, we want TJ Ford with the ball. He's so quick, and his court vision is amazing. Almost every game, I'm like, 'where did that pass come from?'"

Chris Bosh, in the December 31st, 2007 issue of ESPN The Magazine.

[MJ23DREAMER]

In my opinion there was never any doubt that we would miss TJ. More importantly it was the fact that we were going to miss the combination of both TJ and Jose's outstanding play with little or NO drop-off when it comes to the PG position.

You now see the reason why the second unit has pretty much been rendered unaccountable. No offense to Juan, but he is no Jose when it comes to running the second unit and creating production!