Top 5 players who are playing the best in 2007/2008?

[ChocolateThundr]

Kobe's numbers are down and the Lakers are still winning. Maybe it goes to show that unlike AI who is one dimensional (scoring) Kobe can help his team win even if he is shooting 44%.

[The MVPlaya]

-= original quote snipped =-





I actually enjoy seeing Kobe play. It is just funny that many Lakers fans still support him even though they said they wouldn't when he demanded out.

For someone who claims to be a "fan" of Kobe you sure do take a lot of jabs at Kobe in several threads.

We aren't fooled. Saying you are a fan of Kobe, then saying something negative about him does not make your word any more credible.

And I'm not saying you've done it entirely in this thread because I haven't read it all, I just thought this was funny.

[tkb]

Ok. I'm going to chime in on the Iverson vs Bryant debate. Yes, Iverson has been playing incredibly well this season, and I rank him 6th for MVP.

However, let's break down the comparison against Bryant.

1. The Lakers have a better record (2 losses less).
2. The Lakers have less talent than the Nuggets (Carmelo and Camby are both better than anything the Lakers have, and since the area the Nuggets excel in is defense, Camby deserves more credit than he gets).
3. The Lakers have had the 8th toughest schedule compared to 28th for the Nuggets.
4. Kobe has been playing better defense than AI. As a matter of fact Kobe is a DPOY candidate and for the first time in a couple years he actually deserves 1st team all d without question (last year he got it as a reputation vote).
5. Kobe is posting better overall stats as judged by having a clearly superior PER than AI. He also has a better EFF, EFF per 48 minutes and fantasy rating.
6. The Lakers as a team are more efficient offensively per 100 possessions when Kobe plays than the Nuggets are when AI plays, and they are equal in defense (and this is with AI playing with a bonafide DPOY candidate and the best shotblocker in the league in Camby, while Bryant isn't).

AI has been great this season, but where people got the idea that he has been outplaying Bryant from I have no idea.

[LLcoleJ]

Ok. I'm going to chime in on the Iverson vs Bryant debate. Yes, Iverson has been playing incredibly well this season, and I rank him 6th for MVP.

However, let's break down the comparison against Bryant.

1. The Lakers have a better record (2 losses less).
2. The Lakers have less talent than the Nuggets (Carmelo and Camby are both better than anything the Lakers have, and since the area the Nuggets excel in is defense, Camby deserves more credit than he gets).
3. The Lakers have had the 8th toughest schedule compared to 28th for the Nuggets.
4. Kobe has been playing better defense than AI. As a matter of fact Kobe is a DPOY candidate and for the first time in a couple years he actually deserves 1st team all d without question (last year he got it as a reputation vote).
5. Kobe is posting better overall stats as judged by having a clearly superior PER than AI. He also has a better EFF, EFF per 48 minutes and fantasy rating.
6. The Lakers as a team are more efficient offensively per 100 possessions when Kobe plays than the Nuggets are when AI plays, and they are equal in defense (and this is with AI playing with a bonafide DPOY candidate and the best shotblocker in the league in Camby, while Bryant isn't).

AI has been great this season, but where people got the idea that he has been outplaying Bryant from I have no idea.

homer

[CB4MiamiHeat]

AI is a better playmaker than what he gets credit for and while Camby and Melo are better than anything Kobe has, the Lakers are deep and that frontciurt has been beasting it, scoring on low attempts and rebounding great.Th
ey both have pretty good help...AI has the starpower with Melo and Camby, Kobe has help from Bunum and Odom all the way to the 10th man.

Lets be real Kobe numbers are not down cause his team is better and hes become more of a passer...his numbers are down cause hes playing lessminutes, but mostly.cause his shot so far has not been as good as it has the last couple of seasons.

[DonPatelli]

I would like to mention a few guys whose achievements so far in the season shouldn't be overlooked but probably will so I will go ahead and mention them

Baron Davis -- Throw the man some love it should of never taken this long for his name to get mentioned!

Caron Butler -- Kobe and Butler man that could of turned into something REAL SPECIAL....

Hedo Turkoglu -- Who needs Rashard Lewis when you have Hedo Turkoglu going coo coo!

Andrew Bynum -- While I know it's still early and he is just finally starting to come into form and Phil is still bringing him in slowly. Doesn't everyone else have that feeling that this kid is going to be special. The Laker's front office wasn't as incompetent as I thought because this BIG is definitely a keeper

Chris Kaman -- His team sux but he is pretty darn good, lock for most improved player award

[tkb]

AI is a better playmaker than what he gets credit for and while Camby and Melo are better than anything Kobe has, the Lakers are deep and that frontciurt has been beasting it, scoring on low attempts and rebounding great.Th
ey both have pretty good help...AI has the starpower with Melo and Camby, Kobe has help from Bunum and Odom all the way to the 10th man.

Lets be real Kobe numbers are not down cause his team is better and hes become more of a passer...his numbers are down cause hes playing lessminutes, but mostly.cause his shot so far has not been as good as it has the last couple of seasons.

And because he's using a lot more of his energy on the defensive end of the ball this season than the past 2.

AI is a great playmaker, I'm not denying that. I'm just denying that he has outplayed Kobe overall this season.

Kobe is one of the biggest reasons the frontcourt has played that well too. A lot of Kobe's assists are lobs to Bynum (Fisher is also very good at setting Andrew up).

[tkb]

I bet a lot of people who are ragging on Kobe for not having as good stats as he did a year or two ago, were also the same people who torched Kobe for team record and lack of team play back then.

There is a terrible double standard in this thread though. KGs stats are down as well. He's using more of his energy on defense, plays less minutes and puts most of his effort into team play. As a result his rebounding average, assist average and point average are the lowest he's put up the last 10 years. I don't see anyone knocking KG for that, and quite frankly no one should either.

[LLcoleJ]

AI is a better playmaker than what he gets credit for and while Camby and Melo are better than anything Kobe has, the Lakers are deep and that frontciurt has been beasting it, scoring on low attempts and rebounding great.Th
ey both have pretty good help...AI has the starpower with Melo and Camby, Kobe has help from Bunum and Odom all the way to the 10th man.

haha so AI has a All-star scoring 25 per next his 27 and a DPOY and Kobe has Bynum and Odom and thats equal?
And the Nuggets are always a favorite and the Lakers are considerd a fringe play off team...but the talent around them are equal? lol

Lets be real Kobe numbers are not down cause his team is better and hes become more of a passer...his numbers are down cause hes playing lessminutes, but mostly.cause his shot so far has not been as good as it has the last couple of seasons.

yes, lets be real. Kobe shot has been off as of late.but he started off the season @47%( thats Nov. up tp mid-Dec ) and got injured. He is not losing minutes becuse his shot has been off it has more to do with the team blowing teams out. but no surprise the Kobe measuring stick is in full effect.

[LLcoleJ]

I bet a lot of people who are ragging on Kobe for not having as good stats as he did a year or two ago, were also the same people who torched Kobe for team record and lack of team play back then.

There is a terrible double standard in this thread though. KGs stats are down as well. He's using more of his energy on defense, plays less minutes and puts most of his effort into team play. As a result his rebounding average, assist average and point average are the lowest he's put up the last 10 years. I don't see anyone knocking KG for that, and quite frankly no one should either.

qft

[B-Scott]

Id still rank Kobe as the best overall player in the game if it was simply the best players overall. I was just going by who was playing the best this season. This doesnt mean id take those players over Kobe if i had to choose. It's a 82 game season,so im sure he will eventually get back to that dominant level.

[tkb]

So, why again has AI played better than Kobe this season B-S?

[667Club]

As far as regular season (therefore mvp) goes, i'd say it's betwen bryant, paul, garnett and james.

It will probably go to Garnett if Boston manage to get 60 wins ++. And Kobe if Boston fails.

[nate33]

Ok. I'm going to chime in on the Iverson vs Bryant debate. Yes, Iverson has been playing incredibly well this season, and I rank him 6th for MVP.

However, let's break down the comparison against Bryant.

1. The Lakers have a better record (2 losses less).
2. The Lakers have less talent than the Nuggets (Carmelo and Camby are both better than anything the Lakers have, and since the area the Nuggets excel in is defense, Camby deserves more credit than he gets).
3. The Lakers have had the 8th toughest schedule compared to 28th for the Nuggets.
4. Kobe has been playing better defense than AI. As a matter of fact Kobe is a DPOY candidate and for the first time in a couple years he actually deserves 1st team all d without question (last year he got it as a reputation vote).
5. Kobe is posting better overall stats as judged by having a clearly superior PER than AI. He also has a better EFF, EFF per 48 minutes and fantasy rating.
6. The Lakers as a team are more efficient offensively per 100 possessions when Kobe plays than the Nuggets are when AI plays, and they are equal in defense (and this is with AI playing with a bonafide DPOY candidate and the best shotblocker in the league in Camby, while Bryant isn't).

AI has been great this season, but where people got the idea that he has been outplaying Bryant from I have no idea.

Thank you.

AI is having a fine season, but there is no freaking way he is better than Kobe. Not even close.

It's not complicated. They have been roughly equal on offense. And Kobe is much, much better on defense. There is no refuting these two facts. Case closed.

[CourtsideTV]

chris pual dwight kobe kg james

[B-Scott]

So, why again has AI played better than Kobe this season B-S?

Because i don't think Kobe has had a great season at all. He has had more very poor shooting performances and has been less efficient then the players i listed above him. You can make a argument for Kobe maybe being over Iverson,but then i don't think he's had a better season then Steve Nash or a Brandon Roy or Duncan. So id still have them over him.

This is just going by how they have been playing up to date. It doesnt mean they are better overall players.

[Jules Winnfield]

I bet a lot of people who are ragging on Kobe for not having as good stats as he did a year or two ago, were also the same people who torched Kobe for team record and lack of team play back then.

There is a terrible double standard in this thread though. KGs stats are down as well. He's using more of his energy on defense, plays less minutes and puts most of his effort into team play. As a result his rebounding average, assist average and point average are the lowest he's put up the last 10 years. I don't see anyone knocking KG for that, and quite frankly no one should either.

Yep, I pointed to the same double stardard on the first few pages. People don't like Kobe and it affects their ability to really make coherent and consistent arguments. Then, when you point it out to them, they call you an idiot and a homer. Great analysis on this thread, though. Can't argue with the facts.

[tkb]

Because i don't think Kobe has had a great season at all. He has had more very poor shooting performances and has been less efficient then the players i listed above him. You can make a argument for Kobe maybe being over Iverson,but then i don't think he's had a better season then Steve Nash or a Brandon Roy or Duncan. So id still have them over him.

This is just going by how they have been playing up to date. It doesnt mean they are better overall players.

I don't think there is any secret that you tend to underrate what Kobe does on the court because you don't like him as a player.

Kobe has posted a better stat line than either of Roy or Nash as well (as judged by PER), and has led his team to almost as good a record as the Phoenix Suns (2.0 games behind) with a worse supporting cast than Nash. Both guys have been hugely impressive, don't get me wrong (I have them both in the top 10 for MVP, and Nash is top 5), but neither have outplayed Kobe this season. Kobe is playing DPOY caliber defense too which you will never give him credit for, because it doesn't show up in a box score and thus you can deny it. Neither of the guys you mentioned have played even close to that well defensively. I'm not surprised that you rank both of them ahead though. I wouldn't be surprised if you had guys like Paul Pierce, Caron Butler or Lamar Odom over him either.

For comical relief, where do you rank Kobe this season?

[GreenWithEnvy]

**** stat lines and averages. Watch a game. Iverson, Nash and Roy are light years more important to their teams success than Kobe. Iverson is carrying a group of underachievers who play no defense. Nash is carrying a bunch of guys who have just recently found themselves this season and Roy is carrying a bunch of guys who, besides Aldridge, belong on most NBA benches.

The Lakers always do this. They always win 7 or 8 games in a row surprise everybody then prove all the doubters correct by going on a losing streak and finishing the season AT BEST 10 games above .500. They are not an elite team they are just overachieving right now. No reason to get excited at this point.

[tkb]

Watch a game.

I could tell you the same thing. Especially after calling Camby an underachiever who plays no defense, and especially after realizing the Nuggets as a group play the 3rd most efficiently defensively among any team in the league. Is that because of Iverson's supreme D? Not really.