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OT: Obama now leads Clinton in New Hampshire

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Post#41 » by KnicksScholar24 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:35 pm

cmaff051 wrote:I do agree that if one wants experience in their candidate, Bill Richardson is the best candidate. It's a shame his campaign has never taken off because he has a lot to offer.


Experience, in this regard, is overrated. I would rather than Chris Paul than Stephon Marbury. Experience in the senate doesn't mean you have experience as being president.

George W is in his 8th year as president. It does mean people wouldn't rather have another candidate over him, even one who has never been president.
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Post#42 » by markdeez33 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 12:02 am

All I can say is GO OBAMA GO

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I wish I wasn't on probation! Georgia is one of the few states that make it to where if you're on probation for ANY charge you can't vote... so that leaves me out of this election :(

However, I am hoping for a Barack victory!
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Post#43 » by HighRyzer83 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 12:18 am

Hillary is wack. She doesnt know how to sell her dull self. Politics has alot to do with personality and salesmenship as it does with party programs. Particularly for the average nonpolitical voter.
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Post#44 » by OoAnd1 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 12:23 am

knicks742 wrote:If Edwards is Obama's VP, Im either voting independent or republican. What that man is doing to position himself as Obama's VP is despicable. He calls himself antiestablishment when only 4 years ago he was the Party's VP nominee!!!! I laughed when he brought up that bill he put together and Hillary was like, well, that is not a law so STFU.


:rofl: :rofl:

Yea, he had me going there for a sec...I was thinking, "Oh, so he has accomplished something" then she's like...the bill didn't pass idiot. Anyone can put a bill together...they do all the time, it's having it pass into law that's worthy of note.

I really liked it tho when he attacked Hilary saying something like..."when she was up, she was quiet...now that she lost to me and Obama...we hear her and the status quo people complain". It was getting dirty there for a while.

I agree, I think Edwards is setting himself up to AT LEAST be Obama's VP. He has grouped himself in Obama's "Change-Theme". I think Edwards still believes he has a shot at winning tho.

The only Dem I like is Obama...and depending on his VP and who the Rep candidate is...I could see myself voting for him. I think that shows that the Dems SHOULD vote for him at all the primaries. I'm not affiliated with any party but I do consider myself a conservative and I agree more with the Republican policies and candidates. But I just like Obama. Even tho I disagree with him with most things...I'd rather have a President I trust and like (although disagree with) than have a leader I don't like (regardless of how much I agree with his policies).
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Post#45 » by Jemini80 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 1:05 am

pretty much Republican here so I think i can some things up.

First off, Ron Paul is being VERY deceitful to the young people of this country. The things he are talking about work in theory where human interaction and intervention is not taken into account. He sounds like a lot of the people in my business classes where they fail to account the real world and only use theories and conceptual mathematics to determine what to do. If Ron Paul was truthful he would admit that even his ideas will not help this country because they will cause the same problems his strategies have caused in the past when people try to use it. I love when he mentions that we no longer use the gold standard and doesn't mention how important it was for our nation to move away from the gold standard. Basically his whole campaign is built around taking advantage of hte young people the same way Romney has built his campaign around taking advantage of the uninformed supposed conservatives.

Here is some news for people. Romney is a Democrat in all his true ideals. He is to Republicans what Bill Clinton was to democrats. He is a liar and really is a flip-flopper. I do not care how he protects his opinions but he only started inacting and preaching conservative measures when he began realizing he wanted to run for president. He is at his heart a very liberal person, and his stances on immigration and other things are completely manufactured. The only thing that really is a Romney idea is his idiotic stance on healthcare, which is funny considering he is bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies.

Huckabee. If you are a real republican, you DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT want him as your nominee. He is being built up, not by the conservative and right wing media, but by the liberal and left wing media. The liberal media (CNN NBC, etc) are building him up because they know he will lose to ANY democratic nominee. They are doing the same thing the Republican media did with Hilary Clinton, Republicans would love nothing more then to have Clinton be the candidate for Dems. Huckabee is the champion of the people, and a champion of fairtax. He states that Fairtax will be the savior for the middle-class. The problem is the essence of the Fairtax is that it taxes people on what they spend, not what they earn. In theory this is a great idea, until you realize the question, who spends most of their pay? It sure as hell isn't the upper class, the upper-middle class, but it is the middle-class and the low class. The same people who are campaigning for this tax will be the people hit hardest by it. This tax will help out the upper-middle class greatly, and the people who actually manage their money, but it will be the tool used to keep the low class and the lower-middle class, or large middle-class families in their designated slot on the socio-economic pyramid. Huckabee will fall ride his wave to South Carolina, except the problem is that Michigan is a couple days before SC and is FAR more important.

Thompson does not want to be president and is being forced to run. he is waiting till he can finally drop out and probably suprisingly support McCain or Rudy even though they have different views.

Now on to the only two candidates who Republicans can hope can win.

John McCain and Rudy G.

here is the problem though, the Republicans NEED to wait till the Dems announce their candidate BECAUSE, McCain can easily destroy Hilary in the election. They share similar immigration issues, but it will come down to the fact that Clinton wants to raise taxes and her healthcare plan is far too expansive and expensive. McCain unfortunately cannot defeat Obama, McCain is my favorite candidate, but he is just frankly not as likeable or young enough to defeat Obama. Obama is all style and little substance, but that doesn't matter. He has the charisma of Romney, but without the dirty vibes people get from Romney. Rudy can and would defeat Obama though, and honestly probably could beat Hilary.

McCain stands for a lot of things, he does well to put them across to the viewers so i don't feel like summing them up, but if you have questions you can respond. The BIGGEST problem McCain will have is the fact that he believes Big Pharm companies are the problem. This is far from the truth, and honestly is a very bad stance to have as a Republican. If he gets the nominee he will need to change this view or he will lose all support from the party and Bloomberg will end up being forced to run as an independent which will lead to a split vote and a Democratic landslide win.

Rudy has honestly the smartest and most dangerous campaign strategy i have seen in the last 20 years. He has not even bothered with any of the small states, and has concentrated his efforts upon Cali, Florida, Michigan, NY, Ill, Ohio, and Missouri. To be the nominee you do not need small states, but if you can pick up the delegates from these states you have already won and already have enough delegates to become the candidate. The problem is though that Rudy has to continue to stay relevant until Florida's primary becuase i do not think he has a shot at Michigan.

the turning point for this election though is Michigan. ROmney will in all likelyhood lose a suprisingly close race to McCain in NH. No suprise that McCain will win NH, NH loves him and he won by almost 20 percentage points in 2000 in NH. The previous poster that said Romney will drop out after NH is slightly wrong. Romney will stick in until Michigan. If Romney loses NH, and then loses Michigan where he was born, then it is over for him. McCain will probably win Michigan and by that time even the SC win for Huckabee will be far too little far too late because Huckabee has no money left and never had that much money to begin with.

The honest key though for Republicans though is to keep controlling the media and making sure the spotlight is on Obama and Clinton and that Edwards stays in the background. Edwards is the home-run threat for the Democrats and will defeat any Republican candidate he faces. As long as Clinton stays in th race long enough to screw Edwards and then supports Obama insteado f Edwards when she drops out, then the Republicans still have a decent to good chance in the election.

oh btw, McCain is only a year younger than Ron Paul, but McCain actually has life in him instead of incoherent rambling and screaming like Ron Paul.

The honest truth that Ron Paul supporters cannot accept is the fact that Huckabee had far less suporters and even far less money for his campaign than Paul, but he was able to launch himself to a national level because he has presidential characteristics unlike Paul. Huckabee has charimsa, is likeable, is eloquent in his speaking, is mild-mannered, and is coherant and not a rambling old man who speaks of the economy like he is William Jennings Bryan and speaks of foreign policy like he is Robert Taft (super-isolationists). I really wish he had been taken seriously instead of ignored so economists can point out the huge holes and flaws in his campaign and beliefs.

oh btw, Mitt Romney is the **** devil and is bought and paid for by the same people who run Fox News which is why he is receiving so much hype from that channel.
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Post#46 » by riyaz_guerra » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:55 am

Obama's Monday ABC interview with Sawyer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSWarQSGE6c

Thanks for the rundown on the republicans Jemini80.
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Post#47 » by nykgeneralmanager » Tue Jan 8, 2008 5:48 am

riyaz_guerra wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I was just talking to someone about the same thing.

I doubt the momentum is so great that people who were firmly in Hillary's camp all of a sudden had some revelation that Obama is the greatest thing since the g-string.

What probably is happening is that some 10-15% of Hillary's vote were probably people who just wanted to support the Democrat who could most likely beat the Republican candidate and they assumed it was going to be Hillary. There are a good number of Democrats who just want any Democrat elected and are tired of the Republicans.

Why not? If there are Republicans that are even being won over by Obama, then why not a Democrat? I'm not saying a large number, but a hell of a lot of people are joining Obama's camp, from all other places...be in Republicans, Ind., and Decomcrats were liked someone else first.
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Post#48 » by mugzi » Tue Jan 8, 2008 6:05 am

Jemini80 wrote:pretty much Republican here so I think i can some things up.

First off, Ron Paul is being VERY deceitful to the young people of this country. The things he are talking about work in theory where human interaction and intervention is not taken into account. He sounds like a lot of the people in my business classes where they fail to account the real world and only use theories and conceptual mathematics to determine what to do. If Ron Paul was truthful he would admit that even his ideas will not help this country because they will cause the same problems his strategies have caused in the past when people try to use it. I love when he mentions that we no longer use the gold standard and doesn't mention how important it was for our nation to move away from the gold standard. Basically his whole campaign is built around taking advantage of hte young people the same way Romney has built his campaign around taking advantage of the uninformed supposed conservatives.

Here is some news for people. Romney is a Democrat in all his true ideals. He is to Republicans what Bill Clinton was to democrats. He is a liar and really is a flip-flopper. I do not care how he protects his opinions but he only started inacting and preaching conservative measures when he began realizing he wanted to run for president. He is at his heart a very liberal person, and his stances on immigration and other things are completely manufactured. The only thing that really is a Romney idea is his idiotic stance on healthcare, which is funny considering he is bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies.

Huckabee. If you are a real republican, you DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT want him as your nominee. He is being built up, not by the conservative and right wing media, but by the liberal and left wing media. The liberal media (CNN NBC, etc) are building him up because they know he will lose to ANY democratic nominee. They are doing the same thing the Republican media did with Hilary Clinton, Republicans would love nothing more then to have Clinton be the candidate for Dems. Huckabee is the champion of the people, and a champion of fairtax. He states that Fairtax will be the savior for the middle-class. The problem is the essence of the Fairtax is that it taxes people on what they spend, not what they earn. In theory this is a great idea, until you realize the question, who spends most of their pay? It sure as hell isn't the upper class, the upper-middle class, but it is the middle-class and the low class. The same people who are campaigning for this tax will be the people hit hardest by it. This tax will help out the upper-middle class greatly, and the people who actually manage their money, but it will be the tool used to keep the low class and the lower-middle class, or large middle-class families in their designated slot on the socio-economic pyramid. Huckabee will fall ride his wave to South Carolina, except the problem is that Michigan is a couple days before SC and is FAR more important.

Thompson does not want to be president and is being forced to run. he is waiting till he can finally drop out and probably suprisingly support McCain or Rudy even though they have different views.

Now on to the only two candidates who Republicans can hope can win.

John McCain and Rudy G.

here is the problem though, the Republicans NEED to wait till the Dems announce their candidate BECAUSE, McCain can easily destroy Hilary in the election. They share similar immigration issues, but it will come down to the fact that Clinton wants to raise taxes and her healthcare plan is far too expansive and expensive. McCain unfortunately cannot defeat Obama, McCain is my favorite candidate, but he is just frankly not as likeable or young enough to defeat Obama. Obama is all style and little substance, but that doesn't matter. He has the charisma of Romney, but without the dirty vibes people get from Romney. Rudy can and would defeat Obama though, and honestly probably could beat Hilary.

McCain stands for a lot of things, he does well to put them across to the viewers so i don't feel like summing them up, but if you have questions you can respond. The BIGGEST problem McCain will have is the fact that he believes Big Pharm companies are the problem. This is far from the truth, and honestly is a very bad stance to have as a Republican. If he gets the nominee he will need to change this view or he will lose all support from the party and Bloomberg will end up being forced to run as an independent which will lead to a split vote and a Democratic landslide win.

Rudy has honestly the smartest and most dangerous campaign strategy i have seen in the last 20 years. He has not even bothered with any of the small states, and has concentrated his efforts upon Cali, Florida, Michigan, NY, Ill, Ohio, and Missouri. To be the nominee you do not need small states, but if you can pick up the delegates from these states you have already won and already have enough delegates to become the candidate. The problem is though that Rudy has to continue to stay relevant until Florida's primary becuase i do not think he has a shot at Michigan.

the turning point for this election though is Michigan. ROmney will in all likelyhood lose a suprisingly close race to McCain in NH. No suprise that McCain will win NH, NH loves him and he won by almost 20 percentage points in 2000 in NH. The previous poster that said Romney will drop out after NH is slightly wrong. Romney will stick in until Michigan. If Romney loses NH, and then loses Michigan where he was born, then it is over for him. McCain will probably win Michigan and by that time even the SC win for Huckabee will be far too little far too late because Huckabee has no money left and never had that much money to begin with.

The honest key though for Republicans though is to keep controlling the media and making sure the spotlight is on Obama and Clinton and that Edwards stays in the background. Edwards is the home-run threat for the Democrats and will defeat any Republican candidate he faces. As long as Clinton stays in th race long enough to screw Edwards and then supports Obama insteado f Edwards when she drops out, then the Republicans still have a decent to good chance in the election.

oh btw, McCain is only a year younger than Ron Paul, but McCain actually has life in him instead of incoherent rambling and screaming like Ron Paul.

The honest truth that Ron Paul supporters cannot accept is the fact that Huckabee had far less suporters and even far less money for his campaign than Paul, but he was able to launch himself to a national level because he has presidential characteristics unlike Paul. Huckabee has charimsa, is likeable, is eloquent in his speaking, is mild-mannered, and is coherant and not a rambling old man who speaks of the economy like he is William Jennings Bryan and speaks of foreign policy like he is Robert Taft (super-isolationists). I really wish he had been taken seriously instead of ignored so economists can point out the huge holes and flaws in his campaign and beliefs.

oh btw, Mitt Romney is the **** devil and is bought and paid for by the same people who run Fox News which is why he is receiving so much hype from that channel.


Thanks for "some" ing things up for us so succintly. Im sure sum is what you meant to type.

You accentuate the problem alot of people have with Republicans in general. This sense of 'absolute certainty' when you talk about politics.

What do you really think a HAWK like Mccain is going to do for us?

Well hmmm, maybe he'll finish what W couldnt in Iraq, invade Iran and start WW3. Would that make sense?

When did we become responsible for the world and its situation? Washington warned us to stay out of foreign affairs. Other than WW2 I cant think of a single international conflict that was absolutely necessary. And dont bring up Korea, Vietnam or border conflicts in Latin America, Eastern europe and the like.

How is his economic policy going to help reduce our nation's debt and ensure our future prosperity?

He doesnt sound that much different than most fiscally.

You think Ron Paul's hoodwinking this generation? Many of his supporters are college educated and arent as dumb as an enlightened mind like you thinks they are. People are fed up with Big govt and the way our coutry is going. Maybe you're part of the upper crust driving an S class and smoking Cubans signing your John Hancock with a Mont Blanc pen.

Most of this country isnt.

Theres no way Mccain is going to beat a democrat, he's been there lost before and he's only being taken seriously because the Republicans dont have another Bush to trot out there this go around.

So get used to saying President Obama. :banghead:
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Post#49 » by Jemini80 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:33 am

he lost the nomination because he refused to bend his beliefs for conservatives and evangelicals, i fail to see where that is a bad thing.

he has a history of cutting spending and has a near spotless record besides some slip-ups. He wants to cut spending and the real John McCain hasn't even come out yet because he is playing it safe so the conservatives don't **** him over again.

I'm sorry that you don't think he will beat democrats when polls and experts all give him huge chances against him, but hey you are for Ron Paul and against evolution so your opinions aren't really the most valid here.

the problem with our economy is not what standard we use or the printing of money, it is our businesses and it is the threats from China and China consistantly hacking our information. Any style of currency standards have its ups and downs. I will touch on this later.

You guys seem to have no faith in this country, if what Ron Paul was talking about was true and practical and not just true in theory like communism, then there would be actual Economists that would come out and support him.

College educated means **** also, I know a lot of people who went to college that are dumb as hell and delusional, like people who refuse to accept evolution as scientific fact or support Ron Paul.

you want to know the real way to fix the economy, but will never happen. Accept the Euro as the national currency. Euro will never crumble because it has too many powerful countries at its backing. It is also a far more effective union to join because it is made up of real countries unlike the stupid North American Union idea.

the biggest problem that will face our country in 2008 and the future is China hacking our information. It has happened before and will continue to keep happening. The biggest target areas are defense companies and pharmaceutical companies. My father works in the Pharmaceutical industry and trust me, it is a BIG problem.

The asian markets aren't the future of this world, they steal ideas from the US and adapt them, which is why economic war on China and the end of taking loans from China is what needs to be done.

AMT tax is dumb too, it punishes people for being successful, but not super-successful.

Universal Healthcare is a funny joke too. Can someone point out in the constitution where it says that people have a right to healthcare. I fail to see how it is okay to have companies that profit off the deaths of humans, but when a company profits off of saving people's lives it is a problem. It sucks for poor people that drugs are expensive, but until you can figure out a way for companies to pay for their Research and Development which is in the tens of billions every year, drug prices will be the same amount.

Or the people that say that we should be able to have generic drugs on the market, how bout we do this... You go out and spend billions of dollars inventing something, and then when you do I will come out and sell the same product but for a 20th of the price because i do not have to cover the costs it took to invent the item. Does that sound sensible to you? because i am pretty sure the founding fathers gave protection to inventors with the patent office.
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Post#50 » by Jemini80 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:34 am

double post sorry
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Post#51 » by mugzi » Tue Jan 8, 2008 8:18 am

Jemini80 wrote:he lost the nomination because he refused to bend his beliefs for conservatives and evangelicals, i fail to see where that is a bad thing.

he has a history of cutting spending and has a near spotless record besides some slip-ups. He wants to cut spending and the real John McCain hasn't even come out yet because he is playing it safe so the conservatives don't **** him over again.

I'm sorry that you don't think he will beat democrats when polls and experts all give him huge chances against him, but hey you are for Ron Paul and against evolution so your opinions aren't really the most valid here.

the problem with our economy is not what standard we use or the printing of money, it is our businesses and it is the threats from China and China consistantly hacking our information. Any style of currency standards have its ups and downs. I will touch on this later.

You guys seem to have no faith in this country, if what Ron Paul was talking about was true and practical and not just true in theory like communism, then there would be actual Economists that would come out and support him.

College educated means **** also, I know a lot of people who went to college that are dumb as hell and delusional, like people who refuse to accept evolution as scientific fact or support Ron Paul.

you want to know the real way to fix the economy, but will never happen. Accept the Euro as the national currency. Euro will never crumble because it has too many powerful countries at its backing. It is also a far more effective union to join because it is made up of real countries unlike the stupid North American Union idea.

the biggest problem that will face our country in 2008 and the future is China hacking our information. It has happened before and will continue to keep happening. The biggest target areas are defense companies and pharmaceutical companies. My father works in the Pharmaceutical industry and trust me, it is a BIG problem.

The asian markets aren't the future of this world, they steal ideas from the US and adapt them, which is why economic war on China and the end of taking loans from China is what needs to be done.

AMT tax is dumb too, it punishes people for being successful, but not super-successful.

Universal Healthcare is a funny joke too. Can someone point out in the constitution where it says that people have a right to healthcare. I fail to see how it is okay to have companies that profit off the deaths of humans, but when a company profits off of saving people's lives it is a problem. It sucks for poor people that drugs are expensive, but until you can figure out a way for companies to pay for their Research and Development which is in the tens of billions every year, drug prices will be the same amount.

Or the people that say that we should be able to have generic drugs on the market, how bout we do this... You go out and spend billions of dollars inventing something, and then when you do I will come out and sell the same product but for a 20th of the price because i do not have to cover the costs it took to invent the item. Does that sound sensible to you? because i am pretty sure the founding fathers gave protection to inventors with the patent office.


:nonono:

Wow I dont even know where to begin with this gem of a post.

Im for Ron Paul yes and stop me if Im wrong but is it called the THEORY of evolution not the FACT of evolution???

Its okay to be a humanist {which you so obviously are}, an agnostic, an atheist, an evangelical or anything else you want to be- thats what makes the constitution great- that same document RON PAUL defends. But when you purport that someone who doesnt agree with a THEORY you have, that persons opinions "arent that valid here, thats your THEORY. And its tantamount to argumental fascism.

But you've once again made the astounding leap from theory to fact. Congratulations you've managed to do something that the "scientific community" you so wholeheartedly believe in doesnt even do without proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

The problem with our economy is China??? Well its a small part of a greater sickness. The military and pharmaceutical industrial complexes are the catalysts of debt forcing us to borrow from China to expand an ever increasing debt.

Why have more soldiers contributed to Paul than any other candidate? Do you think you have more insight on that than the fact about people on the front lines of our military conflicts?

So since you're a proponent of BIGPHARMA- why if billions are being spent on research is there no cure for diabetes, cancer, aids, arthritis, parkinsons, etc. etc. etc. ?? Science has all the answers dont they?

Maybe they dont want to "cure" anything. But if they can keep you alive and make life barely tolerable, you continue to buy their products. A drug pusher doesnt make dough by people not needing their product now do they?

Id like to see what the mission statement of the bigpharma company your father works for is. Is it to cure the world of all disease?

It doesnt make sense for me that people cant afford the very F'n medicine that doesnt even cure what ails them. Does it make sense to you that the largest lobbiests in Washington are BigPharma?? Hmm I wonder why? And why are people in the FDA allowed to own pharmaceutical stocks?? Seems like a conflict of interest to say the least.

I can do this all day. This is an argument you can continue to make with me but its not one you'll ever win.
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