MEMPHIS WANTS NOCIONI

[Sonny_D1]

i think memphis considers nocioni at a different position than miller

miller is our starting SG....the thought in memphis over the summer was Iavaroni wanted Noc to play PF....

this season Iavaroni is in love with playing Gay at the PF.....b/c Iavaroni comes from phoenix and likes the smaller lineup, with what he calls the "phoenix-4".....with noc, either him or gay would play PF, the other play SF....

Which is why I've always contended that Memphis would probably be very interested in a player like Odom. I also don't believe they'd take back Wallace. So without further ado:

Bulls Trade: Wallace, Noc, Sefolosha, #1 pick
Bulls Receive: Gasol, Miller, Stoudamire

Memphis Trades: Gasol, Miller, Warrick, Stoudamire
Memphis Receives: Odom, Noc, Sefolosha, Vujacic

LA Lakers Trade: Odom, Vujacic
LA Lakers Receive: Wallace, Warrick, Bulls #1 pick

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Kirk/Duhon
Miller/BG
Deng/TT
Smith/TT/Noah
Gasol/Noah/Gray

Conley/Lowry
Gay/Navarro
Noc/Cardinal
Odom/Noc
Milicic/Swift

Of course, you include TT in the deal if it isn't enough value for LA and Memphis (I didn't want to cause I'm greedy), and do something like this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Either way, I think the framework for a deal between these three teams is definitely possible.

[Cliff Levingston]

If they're really that gung ho for Nocioni, that's a fine trade. It definitely shores up the Memphis frontline for years to come. The only question I have is whether Memphis is willing to deal Gasol without also getting rid of either [/b]Miller's[/b] or Cardinal's contract.

Cliff Levingston doesn't understand why people think Memphis wants to rid themselves of Miller. Maybe they do, but he's have a great season under Iavaroni and is a good all-around scorer who can play 2 positions.

Cardinal might be a worse contract than Wallace; at least Wallace contributes something and plays an important position in the NBA. It'd be stupid for them to trade Gasol with Cardinal (ICLO) because it'll severely limit the return they get for Gasol.

[JCrossover#1]

Nocioni is one of Pax' favorites, so he wont give him up easily or as a salary dump.
And Mike Miller is becoming an overrated player around this place...

[dougthonus]

And now that Sam Smith has proposed it I'm just gonna assume that it doesn't have a shred of truth to it.

Sam Smith the reporter is pretty good. Sam Smith the trade wizard is awful. It sounds like Sam Smith was reporting that Memphis wanted Nocioni. In which case, it's far more believable. If Sam Smith went into matchmaker mode and just said "Nocioni + Tyrus works under the cap for Gasol" then it would just be random BS.

[emperorjones]

-= original quote snipped =-


Cliff Levingston doesn't understand why people think Memphis wants to rid themselves of Miller.

Its because he's a Pre-Op.

[SuburbanOasis]

Memphis will not take Wallace.

They may take Noce+ young players and a pick.

I would probably do Noce/Tyrus/Thabo/filler (griffen?) for Gasol.

Memphis might push for Noah, but I would try much harder to keep him because of his ability to play center and pf and the fact that he has shown some energy at all times while on the court.

All of these deals are under the idea the Memphis' asking price for Gasol has dropped like a rock though. Keep in mind last year they were pushing for Deng+Hinrich or Gordon+NY #1+ filler according to some reports. Even if they only wanted Deng and 1 of Hinrich/Gordon/NY#1 that price will have dropped astronomically in a year where basically all Gasol did was get healthy.

I don't buy it. I think it takes at least 1 of Deng/Gordon/Hinrich and at least 1 of Tyrus/Thabo/Noah/future 1st. The question is if Memphis values Noce on the same level as Deng/Gordon/Hinrich... which I would find unlikely, but possible.

[Sonny_D1]

Here's a simple deal that Cliff Levingston thinks would work well for both teams.

Bulls trade:
- Andres Nocioni
- Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah (Memphis' choice)
- Joe Smith
- 2008 1st round pick (top 3 protected)
Grizzlies trade:
- Pau Gasol
- Juan Carlos Navarro

Cliff, Sonny_D1 thinks if we take Stoudamire back, and we throw in Khryapa as an expiring for them, Memphis would do that deal. In that scenario, I think by taking Stoudamire off their hands, we should be able to keep our pick.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Sonny_D1 would follow that trade up with the Clippers trade for Maggette that I proposed yesterday, a deal I believe LA would take (they shed payroll and get back a young player on a rookie deal).

Bulls Trade: Sefolosha, Duhon (expiring), Griffin (filler), (throw in our #1 if need be)
Bulls Receive: Maggette, Dickau

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Of course we'd have to take the hit on the buyout for Stoudamire, in other words taking him off of Memphis' hands, because we wouldn't have any minutes for him. I'm also not sure if the CBA allows a trade and then subsequent buyout. The other optin is to leave Navarro out and give the minutes to Stoudamire, but I think we need Navarro back to have the deal make sense. Not sure Rein$dorf & co. would be willing to do that, but if so, it leaves you with:

Kirk-32/Navarro-16
Maggette-14/BG-34
Deng-34/Maggette-14
Gasol-34/Noah-14
Wallace-28/Noah-10/Gray-10

Nice, simple, 9 man rotation with a bit of everything. Outside shooting (BG, Navarro), height in the backcourt (Maggette), slashing ability (Deng, Maggette), inside presence (Gasol), and defensive presence/passing ability down low (Noah).

[bullzman23]

Okay, the Grizzlies aren't going to take on Ben Wallace. We may just have to live this contract out...at least for another season.

It shouldn't be a surprise that they're still interested in Noce. They offered him slightly less (or was it slightly more?) than we did.

Grizzlies Trade: Pau Gasol
Bulls Trade: Noce, Noah, Duhon, Khryapa, and a 1st

[dougthonus]

Grizzlies Trade: Pau Gasol
Bulls Trade: Noce, Noah, Duhon, Khryapa, and a 1st

I would do it.

I bet that this isn't enough to get it done though. I also bet that Coldfish is right. It's likely that Memphis wants us to take on more salary in such an offer, and that's likely a sticking point as well.

[bullzman23]

Grizzlies Trade: Pau Gasol
Bulls Trade: Noce, Noah, Duhon, Khryapa, and a 1st

I would do it.

I bet that this isn't enough to get it done though. I also bet that Coldfish is right. It's likely that Memphis wants us to take on more salary in such an offer, and that's likely a sticking point as well.

If I'm a Grizzlie's fan I wouldn't like this return, but if the management is being realisitc, then that's actually a good trade by comparisons of some past trades. If you added Cardinal for Smith and Griffin it still works. That should make it more appealing for them.

Some recent trades:

Sixers Trade: Allen Iverson and Ivan McFarlin for Andre Miller, Joe Smith, Two 2007 First Round Picks

Raptors Trade: Vince Carter for Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, and two first round picks (16th and I'm not quite sure what they did with the other first)

Hornets Trade: Baron Davis for Dale Davis and Speedy Claxton

Suns Trade: Stephon Marbury (who still had a good reputation at this point), Penny Hardaway, Trybanski for McDyess, Lampe, Eisley, Ward, Vujanic, and two firsts

We'd end up paying the lux tax if we kept both Deng and Gordon, but we'd get a ton of financial relief in two seasons. I think Reinsdorf may pay for a lineup of

Wallace
Gasol
Deng
Gordon
Hinrich

[fudgie]

-= original quote snipped =-



Its because he's a Pre-Op.

(picture)

That must be an old photo 'cause he's gotten them done since then



With a rack like that there's no way they let him go

And to all the trades proposed in this thread: yes, yes, yes and yes. Chalk me up as being in the 'I want Gasol' crowd.

[bullzman23]

Yet another alternative:

Bulls Trade: Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah, Thabo Sefolosha, Joe Smith, Chris Duhon, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, 1st Round pick, 2nd Round pick

Bulls Receive: Pau Gasol, Juan Carlos Navarro, Damien Wilkins, Brian Cardinal, Casey Jacobsen, Mikeal Gelabale

Memphis Trades: Pau Gasol, JCN, Damon Stoudamire, Brian Cardinal, Casey Jacobsen

Memphis Receives: Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah, Thabo Sefolosha, Joe Smith, Chris Duhon, Viktor Khryapa, Adrian Griffin, 1st Round pick

Seattle Trades: Damien Wilkens and Mikeal Gelabale
Seattle Receives: Damon Stoudamire and 2nd round pick (Chi)

I think you can come up with the Grizzlies reasoning. I don't know if the Sonics do this, but Wilkens was in the dog house recently --- so they get a shorter contract for him.

[Cliff Levingston]

I don't know if the Sonics do this, but Wilkens was in the dog house recently --- so they get a shorter contract for him.

Cliff Levingston knows that they don't do this. They've already got a signfificant amount of money tied up in Earl Watson and Luke Ridnour at the PG spot. They don't need Stoudamire.

Cliff Levingston also doesn't think the Bulls will take a ton of salary back in a trade as incentive to make a deal. They're going to want to keep the money close so they've got a shot to retain both Deng and Gordon, otherwise it's halfway pointless to make a trade a for someone like Gasol.

For example, the deal Cliff Levingston proposed earlier:

'08-'09 salaries
- Nocioni: $8 million
- Smith: $4.8 million
- Thomas: $3.75 million
- 1st round pick: ~$1.5 million
Total: $18.05 million

- Gasol: $15.1 million
- Navarro: (not under contract)

So essentially, we save $3 million as a result of the trade, but part of that would probably have to go toward re-signing Navarro.

Cliff Levingston supposes we could (maybe) take on Stoudamire's last year of his deal at $4.65 million (in exchange for Duhon's expiring), but that makes it harder to re-sign Deng/Gordon (via taking back almost $2 mil more than we're sending out in the trade) and add another free agent without going over the tax.

Realistically, if ownership is as firm about the luxury tax as we think they are, there's no chance we're able to make a trade for a star and retain both Deng/Gordon without giving up Ben Wallace.

[cboksa]

Bulls trade:

thomas
duhon
joe smith
khryapa
2008 first round pick
2009 first round pick

for
GASOL and navarroo maybe

i rather trade more picks then give up some of are guys.

[Cliff Levingston]

Bulls trade:

thomas
duhon
joe smith
khryapa
2008 first round pick
2009 first round pick

for
GASOL and navarroo maybe

i rather trade more picks then give up some of are guys.

Can't give up 1st round picks in consecutive years.

Also; see Cliff Levingston's earlier post. This adds a lot of guaranteed salary next season and all but solidifies our inability to retain both Deng and Gordon without going over the tax.

So, after this deal, do you let Deng walk and just go with Nocioni/Sefolosh at small forward?

[Sonny_D1]

Realistically, if ownership is as firm about the luxury tax as we think they are, there's no chance we're able to make a trade for a star and retain both Deng/Gordon without giving up Ben Wallace.

I agree. That's why I'm done coming up with any fantasy trades that don't include Wallace.

Even if we do your initial proposed trade Cliff, we'd still be close to $72m after resigning Deng, BG and Navarro. Of course, both Deng and BG could play for qualifying offers but I don't think either side would take that chance.

The fact of the matter is either we trade Wallace or else one of Deng/BG is gone next year.

[#1TKfan]

-= original quote snipped =-



Its because he's a Pre-Op.

(picture)

[Tommy Udo 6]

There are numerous trades that can be worked out with Noc to memphis

The hang-up may be that Paxson is the one who doesnt want to trade him.

But stop with the Ben W to Memphis trades. They have no need or want of him.

If Ben W goes anywhere, it'll be Lakers or Suns. Frankly, I doubt either one happens.

[Cliff Levingston]

The hang-up may be that Paxson is the one who doesnt want to trade him.

Cliff Levingston sure hopes this isn't the case.

[DJhitek]

Wow..I'm truely dizzy from the amount of trade scenarios thrown out so far.

That said...I would love to ship out Noc and Wallace, not sure any team in this league would want them together though.