Horford and Smoove

conleyorbust · Post #41 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 9:59 pm

tontoz wrote:
You don't start freakin Diop over him for any reason.

Yes you do. One reason you do it is to keep Horford out of foul trouble.

right now Horford is 7th in the league in fouls per game. The reason for that isn't just because he is a rookie. It is because he is undersized battling much bigger players.

Amare has the same problem. Amare is 4th in the league in fouls per game even though he plays only 31 minutes.

What did Horford do against Shaq and Howard? He collected splinters on the bench.

Amare is actually a pretty terrible defender all-around. Horford is getting better at his post D, he was playing Shaq and Howard really aggressively and got called for it, rightfully so. He'll learn but historically, pure post defenders usually aren't mammoths; guys like Oakley, Rodman, Davis, Robinson, etc. are all better one on one defenders in the post than their 7'0 footer counterparts because they can use strength and quickness. I think Smith and Horford could be a great combo on D because Horford is quick enough to switch on screens but strong enough to keep a big guy from scoring on a post up while Josh can fly around swatting shots. Of course this all presupposes that Horford can learn the finer points of post defense in the NBA. I definitely wouldn't be averse to snagging a guy like Diop if we can land him, never hurts to have a guy like that.

CAM · Post #42 » by **CAM** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 11:02 pm

So should Amare possibly come off the bench for a guy like Brian Skinner (or even Diop if hypothetically)? Because he has been a decent defender in years past. Is that what you are suggesting?

I agree it's a problem that Horford and Amare foul larger 5's because of a size difference, but is it the best solution to put your best starting C on the bench?

I would think in an ideal world you have a guy like Horford and a guy like Diop on your team and you rotate them/ start them based on a game by game matchup scenario. Horford should win most starting assignments because he is a better player.

tontoz · Post #43 » by **tontoz** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 11:15 pm

So should Amare possibly come off the bench for a guy like Brian Skinner (or even Diop if hypothetically)? Because he has been a decent defender in years past. Is that what you are suggesting?

Is Amare having a tough time getting shots playing with the starters? Is he averaging 9 ppg?

Next year if Horford is the starting center he will be the 5th option on offense behind JJ, Smith, Marvin and Acie. He won't get many shots just like he isn't getting shots now.

CAM · Post #44 » by **CAM** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 11:49 pm

Is that really much of a problem that he's the 5th option?

I'd rather have him playing alongside our starters than get him more shots against second units.

tontoz · Post #45 » by **tontoz** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:01 am

CAM wrote:Is that really much of a problem that he's the 5th option?

I'd rather have him playing alongside our starters than get him more shots against second units.

And that logic is completely backwards.

Diop wouldn't score regardless of when he plays.

Horford would get more shots and score more points as a reserve. Hence that means more total points from the center spot.

The idea in basketball is to score more points than the opposition.

CAM · Post #46 » by **CAM** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:09 am

I would rather have Horford play alongside our current starters because he is good at running/instigating the fast break. He is also capable of defending most NBA 5's well. He is a capable scorer who will only get better, but I don't think his current offensive ability commands more shots that he would surely get from playing with the second unit.

I do though, think that this abilty will improve, which in the future will require more shot attempts. I feel this could happen through better shot distubution (less shots for Smith, maybe AJ or whoever the 1 is). He can also spend time at the 4, next to Diop.

It is my opinion that he should remain the starter at the 5, with Smith the 4 and Marvin the 3 now, and going forward. Just my opinion, yours may differ.

tontoz · Post #47 » by **tontoz** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:18 am

I would rather have Horford play alongside our current starters because he is good at running/instigating the fast break.

which he could do just as well with the second unit.

He is a capable scorer who will only get better, but I don't think his current offensive ability commands more shots that he would surely get from playing with the second unit.

So you think he is just a 9 ppg scorer? I thought we drafted an NBA ready player who was going to be our post scorer.

Right now he should obviously be the starter at the 5. But i don't see the logic of him starting at the 5 indefinitely.

CAM · Post #48 » by **CAM** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:37 am

I don't think he could run as well with our current second unit. Zaza/Shelden/Lue/Lo/Law? I don't think so. Chill is good for that, but you need options. I feel this would greatly negate this part of his game.

No, I don't think he is a career 9ppg scorer, I never did, I said his offense is what it is now, which doesn't command 15 fga pg. I do however think it will in the future, which is when you make adjustments, like I mentioned, shot distrubution. And hopefuly Law, or someone else to be a good distibutor.

I do see him starting at the 5 indefinately, based on a front court of Horford/Smith/Shelden/Zaza/Marvin....... potentially including a player such as Diop.

tontoz · Post #49 » by **tontoz** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:50 am

I don't think he could run as well with our current second unit. Zaza/Shelden/Lue/Lo/Law?

Lue and Lo won't be here next year.Their deals are expiring. If we get Diop then Shelden and Zaza will probably be glued to the bench and then hopefully gone the following year.

Mario will be here hopefully and he can run with anyone.

It isn't like all the starters go to the bench at the same time. Horford will have guys to run with him. But if two or three of the starters are on the bench then Horford moves up the pecking order in terms of offensive options.

No, I don't think he is a career 9ppg scorer

That isn't what i was asking. I was asking if you think he is just a 9 ppg player right now.

CAM · Post #50 » by **CAM** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:11 am

I think by the end of the year he could be averaging 13ppg at best, but more likely 11ppg. with 10-11rpg and 1.5bpg

I do think he's a better scorer than that, and could likely be averaging 15-16pg over the last month.

tbhawksfan · Post #51 » by **tbhawksfan** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:09 am

The Hawks average about 80 FGA per game. Horford is getting a little over seven of those a game. A little coaching and designing a few more inside options can very easily get him a few more shots a game.

The Hawks are also last in shooting the three. This also clogs the middle making it very hard to score inside in half court sets.

The Hawks really do need to improve their game plan (coaching and listening to the coach). In half court they really struggle to score.

I used to dream of JJ and Salim hitting about 6 a game; they're combining for two 3FG a game.

conleyorbust · Post #52 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:16 pm

Here is what David Thorpe (ESPN's resident talent evaluator/trainer guy) has to say about Al this week: