Knicks @ Bulls Postgame Thread: Its a very sad day indeed..

[chicagobull]

Accurate observation there. I think we were all riding on the hopes that Boylan was turning this team around and now we're back to cold hard reality. Got a question now, lets say this season is a playoff goner, but we don't tank. What would most of you guys like to see come out of this season so it's not a waste? A trade of some of our "star" but underperforming vets to dump them off and get some fresh blood along with some of our young guys as filler, or play our young guys big minutes the rest of the season even if they under perform? Or just keep things as normal and hope tonight against new york was just a fluke?

[coldfish]

On Gordon's shot selection:

Are you people nuts? That's the freakin play!!!!

I and others have been railing about the turnaround fadeaway 2 pointer for quite some time. Several of Gordon's "bad" shots were exactly that play. He is supposed to come off those two screens, catch it and shoot it. He missed badly, but the selection was not even his, but the coaching staff.

Other than that, Gordon barely touched the ball in the second half as he was playing off the ball with Kirk and Du at the point.

A big part of the issue with the Bulls is their scheme. It is unchanged under Boylan. I understand why he wouldn't change all the plays in the middle of the year. But as has been said, it is the height of insanity to continue to do the same things and expect different results.

If the Bulls trade for a top flight perimeter player, my guess is that we see a lot of the issues with them that we see with Gordon and Deng. This offense is built for the PG, C and PF.

[NLK]

What's really sad is that Tuesday morning I was looking at the rest of the Bulls' schedule for January and thinking to myself that they actaually had a decent shot of being back to .500 heading into February. But after tonight's debacle, that optmism has drained away...

They've already lost 10 games at home this season...that's as many as they lost all last season

They are 0-13 when giving up 100 points, yet Boylan doesn't think the defense needs fixing?

Aside from the 2 wins against Detroit, they haven't beaten a really good team all year. And they still haven't managed to win more than 2 games in a row.

I'm stubbornly clinging to hope that they can still turn this season around to an extent. If they make a trade, I hope they bring in someone with a killer instinct, who knows how to close out close games. Because no one on the current roster seems to have much of a killer instinct. I know that the Bulls players want to win, but for whatever reason their collective basketball IQs seem to drop drastically late in tight games. And even when they execute the play well, they still can't finish by hitting shots. They shot 6-for-20 (30%) in the 4th quarter tonight and didn't score at all in something like the last 5 minutes. That's just sad.

Thats the way I feel after last night's loss.
My only feeling is this (what I put up on my away message):

"God why do you hate CHICAGO?!
Is it because we skip going to the church/synagogue/mosque/temple/etc to watch the BEARS/BULLS/Cubs/Chi-Sox?
Well f#@% you then you b#$#%#$#$#!"

[blumeany]

How can anyone criticize Ben's shot selection? The fact is that this is a horrible Knicks team that shouldn't have even SNIFFED a win against us, but they kicked our ass and we had to shoot to win again. You can't blame it on one guy.

[bagsboy]

How can anyone criticize Ben's shot selection? The fact is that this is a horrible Knicks team that shouldn't have even SNIFFED a win against us, but they kicked our ass and we had to shoot to win again. You can't blame it on one guy.

The one guy I would blame is Pax.

[TB#1]

All I know is I was tired. I was up at the crack of dawn and I'm an hour ahead on EST. I was really hoping the Bulls would go on a run and get a safe lead by the end of the third or start of the 4th. Instead, I got increasingly frustrated as they let what lead they had slip slide away.

I dozed off for a couple of minutes while the Bulls still had a 5 point lead and woke when the came was tied at 100 with about 2 minutes to go.

The Bulls botched the next play and when the Knicks got possession, I turned off the tv, thinking to myself that I absolutely didn't care what the final score would be or the ultimate result in the win/loss column.

As far as I was concerned, the Bulls had already lost that game.

As a Bulls fan, I'm teetering between depressed and apathetic right now. What little enthusiasm I got back withe the coaching change and the energy that seemed to come along with it seems to have left me completely. Not sure when or if it is coming back.

I've said "blech" before, but this time I'm really feeling it, deep down.

Blech.

[TB#1]

They are 0-13 when giving up 100 points, yet Boylan doesn't think the defense needs fixing?

Aside from the 2 wins against Detroit, they haven't beaten a really good team all year. And they still haven't managed to win more than 2 games in a row.

And even when they execute the play well, they still can't finish by hitting shots. They shot 6-for-20 (30%) in the 4th quarter tonight and didn't score at all in something like the last 5 minutes. That's just sad.

I started to get uncomfortable with this game at halftime -- not because the Knicks snuck back into it and grabbed a one point lead going in to the lockerroom, but because the game was running at a pace where there were already over 100 combined points scored.

That never bodes well for a team that relies heavily on defensive domination and streky jumpshots.

[coldfish]

I think the question should be: What happened?

- Is it the eye of the tiger? Did this team just lose whatever edge it had? There seemed to be little fight and fire out there other than when Gray / Noah / Tyrus was the frontcourt in the first half.
- Did teams just figure the Bulls out? I could make a strong case that basically everyone has the "book" on the Bulls and take advantage of the weaknesses in the schemes. Defense in particular where everyone seems to drive and kick to open shooters.
- Is it still a slump? Particularly with Hinrich, I am not seeing the same player that I used to. The impact is noticeable and quantifiable in his play in particular.
- Did Gordon and Deng's contract extension issues have some underlying effect on the team? Is it really not about winning anymore?
- Is Wallace just a big wet rag on the team? Does his moping affect people's play? Why does the team help him constantly on defense and why does virtually every opposing center go off on Chicago?

Personally, I think the team is in bad need of leadership. Beyond that, the defense around the perimeter needs some serious work. Since its basically everyone leaving shooters at this point, you have to put the blame on coaching.

If the Bulls can't beat the Knicks at home, even without Deng, I seriously question if they can make the playoffs. That may not be a bad thing. I just hope it doesn't lead to a number of panic trades that sets the team back 5 years.

[Tommy Udo 6]

Yes, I seriously question whether we make the playoffs - and I doubt we make them without at least one trade

[DuckIII]

That is the most frustrating game I've seen as a Bulls fan since a horribly Wizards team blew out our supposedly "up and coming" Bulls at home on opening day 5 seasons ago - a game that was the kick-off for a major dismantling that happened about a month later.

I'm not going to break it down. Too frustrating.

They really needed this game. This game matters. It says something. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Paxson really starts exploring major rebuilding moves in earnest now.

[DuckIII]

I didn't read this thread and I'm not going to because I'm sure it would further lower my spirits as a fan. So its likely this was already pointed about like a million times:

When we couldn't score in the 4th quarter, and Wallace couldn't stop Curry, why didn't we go to Aaron Gray who had already proven to be very effective in limited minutes earlier in the game?

Boylan wants to win with vets. Fine. But this is just coaching the game your are coaching. You can't have a general rule that you apply every game without regard to what is happening in the specific games as they are being played.

[molepharmer]

Bulls fans are busy arguing about how to kill a cockroach in the basement when the house is burning down around them.

Excellent. I thought the same thing when reading thru this thread. People are nitpicking about Tyrus when the core players have quit working. His miscues are minor in the grand scheme.

We went through the motions tonight, and let the Knicks either win or lose the game. They decided to win the game. It was our own doing.. we kept them in the game. Our defense has been terrible the entire game, and our offense is going to be up and down. We need to get out defense in order, Boylan hasn't done much with the defense thus far.

With some minor editting, you could write the same thing for most of the games the Bulls have played this year.


Regarding the Bulls defense: It's easy to blame the coaching, but this is, in general, the same defensive scheme the Bulls have used the last three years in which they've been highly successful. You'll never convince me it's taken NBA teams 3yrs to adjust. The fault lies squarely on the effort the Bulls players are giving. Defense is about effort. The Bulls have allowed opposing centers and guards to look like All-Stars.

At least now they can go and have an enjoyable practice.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

When we couldn't score in the 4th quarter, and Wallace couldn't stop Curry, why didn't we go to Aaron Gray who had already proven to be very effective in limited minutes earlier in the game?

Boylan wants to win with vets. Fine. But this is just coaching the game your are coaching. You can't have a general rule that you apply every game without regard to what is happening in the specific games as they are being played.

Because Boylan would rather we have Wallace out there to pass up wide open shots.

How many times did Ben pass up a wide open shot in the lane? Hell even the UnitedCenter crowd was booing him, and they don't even pay attention half the time.

[Sonny_D1]

I didn't read this thread and I'm not going to because I'm sure it would further lower my spirits as a fan. So its likely this was already pointed about like a million times:

When we couldn't score in the 4th quarter, and Wallace couldn't stop Curry, why didn't we go to Aaron Gray who had already proven to be very effective in limited minutes earlier in the game?

Boylan wants to win with vets. Fine. But this is just coaching the game your are coaching. You can't have a general rule that you apply every game without regard to what is happening in the specific games as they are being played.

Cause he's coaching, well, just like Scotty would, minus all the yelling. You know, offensive sets really don't matter, nor does doubling down on EVERY single person that ever receives a pass down low. It really isn't that hard, I mean 90% of this board could probably do a better job coaching this team.

Which leads me to another point. When's the last time we've seen the beautiful screens we saw last night set up by Gray that resulted in baskets on consecutive possessions? I mean, really, when is the Wallace crap going to stop?

I'll go back to what I said, I wanted Skiles gone but not without having a full time replacement to take over. Nothing has really changed.

[suckfish]

Another game not worth commenting on. Some mind boggling 2nd half coaching decisions and some poor poor play by the players particularly in the 4th.

Trying to stay positive, although Ty clearly isn't a 3 it was still great to see the young front court in the 1st half, it was refreshing and it was successful.

Gray was excellant in short minutes.

[transplant]

They played a certifiably bad Knicks team

at home

got a superb game out of Joe Smith

got 20-9 from Hinrich

got 21 pts from Gordon on 50% shooting

got 12 pts and 4 rebs from Gray in 10 mins

Duhon scored 9 pts and shot 50%

Wallace kept his double-digit rebound streak alive

AND THEY LOST.

The Skiles-for-Boylan spike is over. It wasn't nearly long enough or nearly good enough. Emotionally, I want to believe that this godawful season can be salvaged, but intellectually I can't see it.

Pax, get on the phone and stay on it.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I hate to say it, but I think I have given up. This team just isn't as good as I thought they were. These players just aren't as good as I thought they were. The coaching isn't as good as I thought it was, and the front office is destroying what little confidence in them I had left.

I know Deng ans Noc were both out, but it shouldn't matter against the knicks.

[coldfish]

-= original quote snipped =-


Regarding the Bulls defense: It's easy to blame the coaching, but this is, in general, the same defensive scheme the Bulls have used the last three years in which they've been highly successful. You'll never convince me it's taken NBA teams 3yrs to adjust. The fault lies squarely on the effort the Bulls players are giving. Defense is about effort. The Bulls have allowed opposing centers and guards to look like All-Stars.

At least now they can go and have an enjoyable practice.

On the perimeter, I have to disagree. Its easy to blame things like emotion, effort, etc. when analyzing a game, but the details are what determines the results. I don't know if the players are being told to do what they are or if they are just idiots, but they aren't making mistakes due to lack of effort.

The lazy thing would be to just stay with your man on the perimeter and not bother to double down. All the Bulls perimeter guys continuously dive and try to recover. Its just stupid and mistimed leaving shooter after shooter wide open.

I WISH the Bulls would reduce their defensive effort because the end result would be better defense.

This has been going on all season and it appears to be different than the past. In the past, when the ball went down low, the help came from weakside PF/C's. This year, more than ever, the help is coming from strong side perimeter people, which leaves open shooters and easy passing lanes.

[Sonny_D1]

I know Deng ans Noc were both out, but it shouldn't matter against the knicks.

Actually Noc was just being his usual self.

Dammit, I can't even do it anymore. It's gotten so painful for me to watch him play that I have to go back to calling him Nocioni. Nicknames are reserved for players that are actually good.

[NLK]

to add to this loss: Barkley said "the Bulls just suck" esp. when its "radio highlights."