Knicks @ Bulls Postgame Thread: Its a very sad day indeed..

[eNgIeS]

I understand how sad this loss is but i think our offense is better maybe boylan just needs to fix our defense
then we will start to win

nothings changed from last year we still have the talent there and the opportunity to make the playoffs

As Rudy said in 95 when a sub-par rockets came back to defend there title. Dont underestimate the heart of a champion

I believe in these guys and we will make the playoffs and we will still be as good as last year

2nite we had DENG MISSING who is 2nd leading scorer and Nocioni shouldnt have even played (i doubt he wouldve if deng wasnt injured)

The knicks lost 8 in a row. maybe they were just due for one

[AirP.]

Can anyone at all defend playing Wallace 38 minutes when you have the worst defensive center I've ever seen out there? Gray abused him for 12 points in 10 minutes... I'm not saying Gray would have gotten 30, but my god, how can you take New York's biggest negative and just not even think about exploiting it by putting one of the worst scoring big men in NBA history out there against him for nearly 40 minutes.

Last night, leaving Tyrus at the 3 most of the game and playing Wallace 38 minutes against that horrible front line told me that Boylan has no idea how to make adjustments even on a per game basis. If anything, the phrase that was passed around when game planning(which I'm not sure they do to be honest) should have been, New York's front line minus David Lee is lazy and horrible, we should exploit that to get an easy win.

There really better be an agenda to showcase the vets because if they're not, last night's coaching is inexcusable.

[DuckIII]

Can anyone at all defend playing Wallace 38 minutes when you have the worst defensive center I've ever seen out there? Gray abused him for 12 points in 10 minutes... I'm not saying Gray would have gotten 30, but my god, how can you take New York's biggest negative and just not even think about exploiting it by putting one of the worst scoring big men in NBA history out there against him for nearly 40 minutes.

Especially when you are in a massive scoring drought in the 4th quarter and a double digit lead is slipping through your fingers due to the inability to score.

Its called an in-game adjustment.

[girlygirl]

On Gordon's shot selection:

Are you people nuts? That's the freakin play!!!!

I and others have been railing about the turnaround fadeaway 2 pointer for quite some time. Several of Gordon's "bad" shots were exactly that play. He is supposed to come off those two screens, catch it and shoot it. He missed badly, but the selection was not even his, but the coaching staff.

Other than that, Gordon barely touched the ball in the second half as he was playing off the ball with Kirk and Du at the point.

A big part of the issue with the Bulls is their scheme. It is unchanged under Boylan. I understand why he wouldn't change all the plays in the middle of the year. But as has been said, it is the height of insanity to continue to do the same things and expect different results.

If the Bulls trade for a top flight perimeter player, my guess is that we see a lot of the issues with them that we see with Gordon and Deng. This offense is built for the PG, C and PF.

The schemes do need to change, because they are just too predictable. I saw another post that mentioned that against the Kings, Sacramento players were beating the Bulls' players to the spot on the court, because they knew exactly where the Chicago players would be on any particular play. There is far too much reliance on pick and rolls, pick and pops. Especially since the Bulls only have big man, Joe Smith, who seems able to finish when he gets the ball from the guards. None of the guards penetrate much off this play (at least not to the point of continuing to the basket and finishing at the rim themselves), while only rarely do the big men "roll" instead of "pop".

The offense needs to utilize a lot more motion. There is too much standing around, most obviously late in games. Since Boylan took over, there's been a lot more activity and motion on offense early in the games, and that has resulted in better productivity. But the offense is still getting bogged down late in games. Why no one almost never cuts to the basket to receive a pass is a mystery to me. Another mystery is why they feel the need to start the pick and rolls so far away from the basket when they need a score with less than one minute to go is another mystery. It is a lot easier to trap a player with the ball when he's 30 feet away from the basket. And what s Ben Wallace supposed to do if he receives the pass that far away from the goal anyway? Just the way the play is drawn up makes it likely to fail 95% of the time. How about setting some stronger back screens to allow Thomas or Noah to get to the rim to receive a lob pass (guards need a LOT more work on throwing these accurately, however)? Or running Gordon and Deng off more screens to give them the opportunity to shake loose from their defenders?

On defense, how about using some full court pressure and/or traps to try and force some turnovers and get some easy points? Last season, the Bulls were 3rd in the NBA in points off turnovers (19.3 PPG). This year they are 15th (16.4). That's a 3 PPG dropoff. They get those extra 3 PPG, they likely have at least 3-4 more wins this season.

I will disagree a little bit on how much BG had the ball last night. He came into the game late in the 4th quarter (with about 4 minutes to go) and made his only shot attempt plus 2 FTs. In the 4th quarter, he was 1-for-6 and also was credited with an assist, and that doesn't include possessions where he may have passed the ball off without ending up with an assist, so he had the ball a decent amount. Does he need to touch the ball more when he's in the game? Usually I would say yes, but last night he had the ball quite a lot, especially coming down the stretch. Unfortunately, he was off his game in the 4th quarter, forcing at least 3 of those 6 shot attempts. And since no one else stepped up in his place, it ended up killing the team.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH...I'm still so upset about this loss. I understand that the Bulls aren't going to blow out very many teams -- I can live with that. And I understand that they aren't going to win every close game -- I can live with that, too. But blowing 12-point leads and failing to score a single point in the final 4+ minutes of a game I don't understand and can't accept.

[Cliff Levingston]

Cliff Levingston was surprised that Boylan stuck with Tyrus at the 3 as much as he did, and applauds him for it. Not because Tyrus was good, but because it looks like Boylan might not be afraid to rely on his young guys. Tyrus finally got a chance to play through mistakes and try to remedy them. He didn't do a great job but he'll be a better player for it.

The rest of the coaching decisions were just horrible in the second half. Can't say enough about how flawed our offensive sets are and why Gray didn't see the floor after abusing Curry in the post.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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Especially when you are in a massive scoring drought in the 4th quarter and a double digit lead is slipping through your fingers due to the inability to score.

Its called an in-game adjustment.

Explain please, I am unfamiliar with this term you use.

[Dieselbound&Down]

Tyrus would have looked a lot better at 3 as would the whole offense if Gray had been in there. The ball would have moved a lot better and Tyrus would have found the space to get his cuts to the rim.

[DuckIII]

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Explain please, I am unfamiliar with this term you use.

Hey, I know you. You're the Bulls' coaching staff!

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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Hey, I know you. You're the Bulls' coaching staff!

Shhhh... Where do you think we get our substitutions from? Red and Sensi are on the payroll.

[BR0D1E86]

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Because Boylan would rather we have Wallace out there to pass up wide open shots.

How many times did Ben pass up a wide open shot in the lane? Hell even the UnitedCenter crowd was booing him, and they don't even pay attention half the time.

It was frightening how often he'd catch the ball around a foot from the basket with somebody like Marbury on him and he'd kick it back out to the 3 point line.

I knew he was useless, but he's taking offensive ineptitude to new heights.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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It was frightening how often he'd catch the ball around a foot from the basket with somebody like Marbury on him and he'd kick it back out to the 3 point line.

I knew he was useless, but he's taking offensive ineptitude to new heights.

Thats our Ben.

[BR0D1E86]

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Especially when you are in a massive scoring drought in the 4th quarter and a double digit lead is slipping through your fingers due to the inability to score.

Its called an in-game adjustment.

And said offensively inept big man is getting slaughtered on defense also.

[kulaz3000]

Can anyone at all defend playing Wallace 38 minutes when you have the worst defensive center I've ever seen out there? Gray abused him for 12 points in 10 minutes... I'm not saying Gray would have gotten 30, but my god, how can you take New York's biggest negative and just not even think about exploiting it by putting one of the worst scoring big men in NBA history out there against him for nearly 40 minutes.

Considering it was against Gray that actually got Curry off in the first place. Gray gave up just as much or even more points to Curry whilst they were matched up together. Right now, Gray is all offense and no defense at all. So i wouldn't say he was much of a positive for us, when you think about how many baskets he gave up on the other end..

That being said, Wallace is all defense and no offense, and yet his defense is still lacking. My point is, Gray doesn't deserve the heavy mintues quite yet and is playing as much as he should, as for Wallace, its a little perplexing when he consistently plays more than 30 mins a night..

[AirP.]

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Considering it was against Gray that actually got Curry off in the first place. Gray gave up just as much or even more points to Curry whilst they were matched up together. Right now, Gray is all offense and no defense at all. So i wouldn't say he was much of a positive for us, when you think about how many baskets he gave up on the other end..

That being said, Wallace is all defense and no offense, and yet his defense is still lacking. My point is, Gray doesn't deserve the heavy mintues quite yet and is playing as much as he should, as for Wallace, its a little perplexing when he consistently plays more than 30 mins a night..

Last night was a rare instance of a horrible defensive center, possibly the worst in the league getting a free pass ecause we put the worst offensive center in the league against him. We dropped a rookie in there and he put up 12 points in less then 10 minutes, I don't care how much Curry went off because he scored 29 points anyways.

Eddie curry scored 14 points more then his average for the season last night... and we have some low post defensive stopper named Ben Wallace that's suppose to not let that happen, even had Gray gave up zero points while out there, Curry scored more then his season average.

If Wallace isn't doing his job on defense, he's a negative for this team, it's exactly like Ben Gordon, if he's not scoring he's a negative overall for this team as well, this is the reality of one dimensional players.

[molepharmer]

Part of the point is that while Curry may have scored 8-10 pts on Gray, Gray scored 8-10pts on Curry.

On the other hand, Curry scored ~17pts on Wallace and Wallace score only ~4 pts on Curry.

Just seems that when the Bulls are struggling to score, playing Gray in place of Wallace, might have helped.

[coldfish]

Gray also drew some fouls on Curry if I remember correctly.

[DuckIII]

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Considering it was against Gray that actually got Curry off in the first place. Gray gave up just as much or even more points to Curry whilst they were matched up together. Right now, Gray is all offense and no defense at all. So i wouldn't say he was much of a positive for us, when you think about how many baskets he gave up on the other end..

That being said, Wallace is all defense and no offense, and yet his defense is still lacking. My point is, Gray doesn't deserve the heavy mintues quite yet and is playing as much as he should, as for Wallace, its a little perplexing when he consistently plays more than 30 mins a night..

I'm not talking about heavy minutes. I'm talking about running him out there for minutes that the game dictates. And last night the game dictated more minutes for Gray in the 4th quarter and less minutes for Curry.

But it didn't happened. And Boylan gets an F for that game because of it.

[The ROY]

Can someone get word to TT that he needs to stop playing it safe and dunk with 1 hand sometimes? I gurantee Eddy wouldn't of blocked that dunk if TT actually took the ball up with some SORT of authority and yamed that ball with 1 hand.

Most frustrating team in the league but ya know what? I've become one with my 'ZEN'ness when it comes to the Bulls. I don't let their losses effect me like I USED to. It's just a game that we can't control. Yes I'd love for the team to play great nightly like a San Antonio or Boston but we just don't have the right roster.

Trust me all, breathe and let it go.

[suckfish]

Can someone get word to TT that he needs to stop playing it safe and dunk with 1 hand sometimes?

Thats a good point.

You'll here a lot of coaches saying that going up with two hands is safer and that you will be able to maintain control of the ball when making contact. But I have seen Tyrus go up with two hands when he could have easily slammed it home with a powerful one hand jam.

Really with a one handed dunk you get up higher above the rim, it's like if you reach to touch the ceiling in your house you can reach further stretching up with one hand.

He has got blocked multiple times this year going up with two hands, he just doesn't seem to get high enough (although he clearly can).

I wouldn't be surprised if that dunk attempt was a foul though.

[newskoolbulls]

Sorry to go OT but why do some of you say you want OJ Mayo? He is th next Stephon Marbury. Eric Gordon bab.