how long before ray becomes the mike finely of the c's?

rsceltic34 · Post #1 » by **rsceltic34** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:38 am

Remember when the spurs got finely and the talk was what kind of role was he going to play for this team and he ended up coming off the bench behind bowen.........i see ray having a similar role in the upcoming seasons. If age affects him the way it could the nxt few seasons i see the c's having to replace him with someone VERY soon. Maybe im just overreacting to his play the last couple of games, and i know he has been injured with a pinched nurve, which could put shaq down in his prime, but in the nxt few years when his play making skills deminish and he becomes a 98% spot up shooter what are the c's to do?

He does not have the size that pierce does or his post up skills either, so im not as worried about pierce as i am about allen. When allen's quick 1st step is gone how long before he becomes our 6th man?

greenbeans · Post #2 » by **greenbeans** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:48 am

hmmm, a little overreaction??? no way, not here?!?!?!

see: Miller, Reggie

and its FINLEY. . . gots the same last name so i gotta hold it down

jfs1000d · Post #3 » by **jfs1000d** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:07 am

I would say 4 or 5 years. The difference between Finley and Ray allen is that ray's shooting ability is what will keep him productive.

Finley, Mitch Richmond and others were explosive physical guards. Ray Allen and Reggie Miller were shooters. As long as Ray doesn't have a Allan Houston like injury, he is going to be productive until late in his career.

Ray probably has only 1 or 2 all-star caliber seasons left. After that he will be 12 ppg to 17 ppg until the late 30s.

Cyclical · Post #4 » by **Cyclical** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:55 am

I think you have a point rsceltic34 but that's not going to happen in the next 2-3 seasons. He's still way too dangerous to not a be a starter and he'll have many more games to justify that this season.

GuyClinch · Post #5 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:23 pm

Finley, Mitch Richmond and others were explosive physical guards. Ray Allen and Reggie Miller were shooters. As long as Ray doesn't have a Allan Houston like injury, he is going to be productive until late in his career.

I think Ray Allen will be fine - but this reasoning is so overplayed.

A good counter example to Reggie Miller - Michael Jordan. MJ was an effective player at 39 averaging 21 points per game. He is of course known as one of the most athletic players ever.

Compare Jordan to Bird - whose career ended nearly four years younger.

That being said Ray Allen is not just a shooter - he is an athlete as well. Michael Finley (who is still effective) is a shooter and not just an athlete.
To make it in the NBA you need skills - even the much maligned Gerald Green is a lights out shooter compared to any 'athletes" on say the Patriots.

All players need their athleticsm - even the slower less athletic ones. If it diminishes too much they are too slow to get open even with screens and the defender can recover in time. That being said the MAJOR factors in players ending their career early is not the loss of athleticism (which can be slowed with training and medical "help") but injuries.

Pete

Rondo_Fan · Post #6 » by **Rondo_Fan** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:32 pm

GuyClinch wrote:He is of course known as one of the most athletic players ever.

Not at 39 he wasn't. He was known as a jump-shooter.

Tricky Ricky · Post #7 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:43 pm

maybe in 3 years

GuyClinch · Post #8 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:04 pm

Not at 39 he wasn't. He was known as a jump-shooter.

And your point is? He was the most athletic player and he was productive at 39. Clearly athletic players can have a long playing career as well.

Pete

Rondo_Fan · Post #9 » by **Rondo_Fan** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:08 pm

GuyClinch wrote:
Not at 39 he wasn't. He was known as a jump-shooter.

And your point is? He was the most athletic player and he was productive at 39. Clearly athletic players can have a long playing career as well.

Pete

My point is that he was jump-shooting to extend his career, not extending his career as an athletic player.

I hope this helps.

jopaullo · Post #10 » by **jopaullo** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:49 pm

if Ray's shot keeps going in, he will stay in the starting lineup. Tony Allans game is similar to Pierces where they are both slashers. Pierce obiously much better. Ray spreads the floor to well, plus he gets to the basket very well. His defence has been VERY good so far as well, so I can't see it happening. IMO

Post #11 » by **ParticleMan** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 5:43 pm

Maybe 3-4 years.

But you make it sounds like this is a bad thing. I'd love to have a mike finely (doesn't that sound like a porn star?) on this squad. Of course we need to replace him in the starting lineup but we have a few years to do it.

Post #12 » by **UGA Hayes** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:27 pm

I think the OP is spot on. People remember that Reggie had a great final season, but for the 2-3 seasons before than I think he had much more of Finley on the Spurs role than people are realizing. He was more of third option to O'neal and Artest. Ray can still dribble in traffic something Finley really wasn't ever able to do, so he is not there yet, but I firmly believe that day is sooner than later.

We already see how much trouble Ray has when teams double him beyond the three point line. And it is happening alot. Which means the coaches are seeing the same thing the OP and I are seeing and are trying to exploit it. Hopefully he can maintain his current level which I am fine with but I am not optimistic.

GuyClinch · Post #13 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:02 pm

My point is that he was jump-shooting to extend his career, not extending his career as an athletic player.

Athletic players can hit jumpers too <g> It was because of his athleticism that he was able to play into his old age. You have to be able to move around the court to continue playing - ask Larry Bird. Athleticism is a plus in every facet of the game. if your taking jumpers - you get more lift on them. If your faster - you can get to your spots sooner.

Reggie Miller maintained his athleticism throughout his career - that's why he could continue to play so well. It was this maintence of ability that enabled him to play so long. It has nothing to do with the fact that he was less athletic to begin with (and he is hardly unathletic).

Another example is Karl Malone - he took care of himself and was able to maintain much of his athletic ability in his later years. Shaq OTOH has let his body go - and now his athleticism is gone. With his athleticism gone his game has disappeared as well.

Pete

celticfan42487 · Post #14 » by **celticfan42487** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:56 pm

I don't know it's not looking good. He's nerves are giving him trouble, I mean his fingers are going numb and discououring from... nerve damage? That doesn't seem like a optomistic injury.

Then you have to factor in he's a bad ballhandler. Whoever said he could be a great option to bring the ball up as our ballhandlers in the second unit... well they were wrong. Very wrong. Ray can barely dribble out of double teams to pass the ball let alone split them or break though a halfcourt press.

I think we won't be extending him and his time will be up with his contract in 2 years from now [not counting this season].

GuyClinch · Post #15 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:28 pm

If it is really a pinched nerve in most cases he will recover in a few days. Your really overreacting. And his handle is fine.. He is 6'6" - who did you expect out there Chris Paul?!

Pete

celticfan42487 · Post #16 » by **celticfan42487** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:46 am

no I'd expect a 6'5" guy to have ballhandling skills equal to the average for his postion.

Come to think about it with Tony Allen as our backup SG, we may have the worst starter back-up ball-handler combo in the league.

This of course shouldn't be important if we had a more capable back-up like Armstrong [

] Can't believe that dude signed with Nets...why binkie possibility WHY!>!>!>!??????