Cliff Levingston has beef again!

[Sonny_D1]

but the thing is, this team still manages to get 100+. can you imagine how much better it would be if we had a lost post threat?

Or how much better it'd be if other teams didn't always know what the **** we were running?

Hell, we might have some gas left in the tank to actually play some defense. It's an absolute struggle for us on offense.

[tyrususi007]

This is what I was talking about in the McGrady post. One of the big issues with the Bulls is the system they play in. It doesnt work with the players we have. They need to scrap the basic high school offense and structure a offense that plays to our players strenghts.

[Cliff Levingston]

This is what I was talking about in the McGrady post. One of the big issues with the Bulls is the system they play in. It doesnt work with the players we have. They need to scrap the basic high school offense and structure a offense that plays to our players strenghts.

The problem is that it's tough to change the fundamentals of your offense mid-season though.

We'd be better off in the long run though giving plenty of iso opportunities to guys like Gordon at the top of the key, Deng in the post and our young guys and just let them work on their games.

[tyrususi007]

-= original quote snipped =-


The problem is that it's tough to change the fundamentals of your offense mid-season though.

We'd be better off in the long run though giving plenty of iso opportunities to guys like Gordon at the top of the key, Deng in the post and our young guys and just let them work on their games.

These guys are professionals and get paid millions to play this game. boo hoo if they have to make changes mid season. something has to change. and trading players away would be my last resort

[suckfish]

-= original quote snipped =-


The problem is that it's tough to change the fundamentals of your offense mid-season though.

Indeed. Any major changes at this point in the season would probably do us more harm than good. It takes time to learn and to get comfortable with new sets, really it's a training camp job.

Small alterations can be made though. Things such as the Wallace pick and rolls should and can be changed.

Still at times people expect a little to much. On this board there are often some great suggestions made regarding our offense, but much of it is 'out of the box' thinking, stuff that has uniquely been suggested. So when people get disappointed because Boylan hasn't implemented some of our thoughts into his coaching it's quite funny.

Things like switching Gordon to the Point is a great idea, but it isn't a basic observation. Switching the positions of your backcourt players is something a little wild, it would be pretty strange if Boylan had the exact same thoughts as a poster on Realgm.

It's all good thinking, just not everybody has the same ideas or thoughts.

Give it time and their will probably be more technical changes made ready for next year, hopefully we will have a longterm coach in place by then.

[Cliff Levingston]

These guys are professionals and get paid millions to play this game. boo hoo if they have to make changes mid season. something has to change. and trading players away would be my last resort

Cliff Levingston doesn't disagree, and it goes back to how we don't have an identity. The coaching staff and management still thinks this team can win so they're going to try to ride the vets and stick with what works cause it's more comfortable and thus, probably gives you a better chance to win (at least in their minds).

It'd be nice to see us decide what kind of team we are. If we're looking to win a title then trade ALL of the young guys for a couple stars even if you have to gut the team. If we're still a young developing team then dump the overpriced vets and run with the kids for better or worse. We're trying to balance it right now and it's just going to lead to being a mediocre team at best... now and in the long-run.

[suckfish]

-= original quote snipped =-




These guys are professionals and get paid millions to play this game. boo hoo if they have to make changes mid season. something has to change. and trading players away would be my last resort

It doesn't matter how good a player is or how much they get paid. It would even take great players a while to get accustomed to new offenses, trying to get an entire team to learn new offenses is a tougher job than you may think. The timing has to be near perfect and every player has to be on the same page, the younger guys like Noah, Gray and even Thomas are still trying to learn and perfect their roles on offense, to introduce new plays mid season would make it that much more difficult.

Sure simple alterations could get picked up quickly, but reconstruction needs a period of time where the team can practice together learning the offense. Right now they have games every other night.

And IMO reconstruction of the offense is needed, it sucks.

[tyrususi007]

-= original quote snipped =-


Cliff Levingston doesn't disagree, and it goes back to how we don't have an identity. The coaching staff and management still thinks this team can win so they're going to try to ride the vets and stick with what works cause it's more comfortable and thus, probably gives you a better chance to win (at least in their minds).

It'd be nice to see us decide what kind of team we are. If we're looking to win a title then trade ALL of the young guys for a couple stars even if you have to gut the team. If we're still a young developing team then dump the overpriced vets and run with the kids for better or worse. We're trying to balance it right now and it's just going to lead to being a mediocre team at best... now and in the long-run.

Cliff I agree and just so you know, I'm not tring to argue with you here. Like suckfish said above you. I know they cant totally change everything in one day. But start slipping new stuff in. Show the other teams looks from us that we havent seen. ya know?

I agree with Suckfish. Boylan has made some small minor changes, not just players being moved to and from the bench. But more needs to happen. thats all Im saying.

This has been the same offense and system for 3 or 4 years now. It's not working, starting trying new things here and there, see what works. just take a chance at least.

[suckfish]

-= original quote snipped =-



Cliff I agree and just so you know, I'm not tring to argue with you here. Like suckfish said above you. I know they cant totally change everything in one day. But start slipping new stuff in. Show the other teams looks from us that we havent seen. ya know?

I agree with Suckfish. Boylan has made some small minor changes, not just players being moved to and from the bench. But more needs to happen. thats all Im saying.

This has been the same offense and system for 3 or 4 years now. It's not working, starting trying new things here and there, see what works. just take a chance at least.

That seems right, start working it in, just don't expect huge changes.

[Cliff Levingston]

With the exception of some more post-ups (which have vanished the last couple of games) Cliff Levingston hasn't noticed anything new.... it's very disappointing.

We'd seriously be much better and less predictable if we ran a basic motion offense.

[suckfish]

Predictability is the killer. Just from early player positioning you can tell who is going where and who is doing what.

We run a basic set that is used league wide, most teams use it. Despite that little fact we happen to use it as one of our main plays, we run it far too much and it just doesn't have enough options (or at least the way we run it doesn't). A lot of teams will go to this play once their main set has been broken or disrupted, not us, it's used as a main set..

Th one I'm talking about is the baseline screens, the SG and SF cut baseline while the two big men set a pick each either side of the key. The point guard looks for the two cutters for the jumpshot.

It's so simple to defend, and it should only really be used every so often. There is a reason why it used by most teams, it's quick and easy to set and it can get your shooters open. But after 3 times down the court defenders know what to do.

[AirP.]

You can change offenses midseason, especially when you have a few days to work on it. You can put in the basics movement of the new offense in and toss in little wrinkles each day, it's not that difficult, I've had to do it at the High School and College level.

It's not like these guys haven't played basketball all their lives, nor have they just played one type of offense. What comes with time and practice is knowing how your teammates will handle certain situations in that particular offense and timing of some plays. Just given them the basics of an offense based off good movement, keep the ball moving around the court and look for easy scoring chances.

You look around the league and you see teams running offenses with more motion then ours, you see teams get easy baskets under the hoop with their guards because of backside picks. You watch teams like San Antonio using scrubs to pass the ball to just to create a good angle for an entry pass to someone down low, these are things we just haven't done here in Chicago. Duncan gets fronted... someone runs to the middle of the freethrow line, they get the ball and instantly bounce pass to Duncan who based on ball movement has an easy basket because his man is sealed off behind him. Something like that is a wrinkle to toss in, but it's based on ball movement which Chicago just doesn't have and don't get me going about Hinrich's personal ball movement killing move... the dribble around in circles without going anywhere outside the arc... atleast dribble to the other side of the court to change the angles and defense...

[molepharmer]

...Seems like that wasted motion would be better used either posting up, spreading the floor or setting a screen off the ball to help someone else get open for a pass (which would help move the ball faster than dribbling around via the use of a screen).

While I agree with the general premise that the offense can become stale, the Bulls as a team have very few shooters that would scare an opponent. Spreading the floor does little good when there's only one or two players capable of consistently making a shot.

Screens are necessary because with the exception of maybe Gordon, nobody (or rarely anybody) can beat their man off the dribble - much less finish at the rim.

[Cliff Levingston]

Screens are necessary because with the exception of maybe Gordon, nobody (or rarely anybody) can beat their man off the dribble - much less finish at the rim.

Not they're not cause it's not like they help our guards get in the lane any more than they would otherwise. The big man just hedges hard and forces our guard to go out wide. They hardly ever pass it to the big man unless it's Joe Smith for a wide open jumper, and the guard never splits the hedge and gets into the lane.

We'd be much better doing a lot of screening off the ball and looking to get guys open that way; back door screens, down screens, etc.

[Bully6Chicago]

This has to do with how many screens we set for our ball handlers. Of course, it first and foremost includes the infamous Ben Wallace pick-and-double-team-on-the-ball-handler play we seem to be so in love with, but it's more than that.

Anyone else notice that no matter who's setting the pick for no matter who has the ball, it hardly ever results in a positive plays as a direct result (other than the Joe Smith pick and pop)? The reason is because:

- Duhon is generally very passive in attacking the hole. Whenever he gets a screen, he doesn't even attempt to get around the hedge and attack the basket. (When he does though, rarely, is when he's at his best).

- Ditto for Hinrich for the most part. We all know he's allergic to contact in the lane and cannot finish for crap around the rim. He's generally in shoot-first outside of 18 feet of the basket, and pass-first inside 18 feet, which is stupid in of itself.

- Ben Gordon simply isn't a good ball handler or passer when he doesn't have a good amount of space to operate in.

Not to mention that the play making skills for all three of these guys are below average.

So why do we run so many screens for them? It usually leads to a pass to the wing to whoever might be there (Noc or Deng) then maybe down into the post or back to the top of the key... which is pretty easily done without the "help" of a screen. It quite often leads to the offense getting stagnated by even an average hedge by the defending big man, leading to the ball handler (Hinrich) either wheeling back out to the top of the key to "reset the offense" or just dribbling around the perimeter before making a lateral pass to the wing.

Seems like that wasted motion would be better used either posting up, spreading the floor or setting a screen off the ball to help someone else get open for a pass (which would help move the ball faster than dribbling around via the use of a screen).

yes yes yes you are watching the games I feel the same way on every point you made I hate this skiles offense it allows for no one to post or even attempt to post and you are so correct about driving to the basket we just dont do it. Do you think the Bulls have the personnel to run the 3 Post? Oh I love that offense it allows for everyone to participate in the offense not just this bull-shirt kick and drive crap