Tyrus' play at SF distressing, atrocious, and your choice

[DASMACKDOWN]

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My same thoughts. That whole game was depressing. That Tyrus, Noah, Gray lineup was golden - why the hell didn't we try it in the 4th? Hell, take Noah out and put Smith in. Either way Boylan disappointed the hell out of me.

We could have done that, but Boylan has absolutely no faith in that. Even though it OWNED when they were in.

The problem also is Gray. As much as I like the kid and his offense, he cant guard a chair in an empty gym. Curry basically ate him alive every opportunity.

Gray has a ton of potential on the offensive end, but until he can play defense and at least look like he can slow down someone, he will be like a white Sweetney and never play more than 15 mins ever.

[DASMACKDOWN]

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Exactly.

If you want Tyrus near the rim, don't platoon him at SF, or don't bring him in the game to incessantly set screens 20 feet away from the basket. Don't run sets the simply call for Tyrus to rotate the ball at the top of the key.

Yes and its highly irritating. Because I dont want Tyrus get used to being on the perimeter...not now not ever. Tyrus can be an elite player 8ft and under. He rebounds well in traffic, he is a great offensive rebounder and he is one of the best weak side shotblockers in the game. In fact when he plays in that area all game its practically a given for a double double +3 blks. When he decides he wants to play like Deng thats the problem.

[Dieselbound&Down]

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Yes and its highly irritating. Because I dont want Tyrus get used to being on the perimeter...not now not ever. Tyrus can be an elite player 8ft and under. He rebounds well in traffic, he is a great offensive rebounder and he is one of the best weak side shotblockers in the game. In fact when he plays in that area all game its practically a given for a double double +3 blks. When he decides he wants to play like Deng thats the problem.

Is that like how Iverson would dominate a 6 foot and under league?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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Is that like how Iverson would dominate a 6 foot and under league?

I lol'd - but I think you know what he meant.


You can't get angry with Tyrus for playing out on the perimeter, and then ask him to guard Marbury and Nate - but not run any post-ups for him on offense.

[dougthonus]

A couple things:

1) They played him at SF because Deng was out, and Noc played like absolute horse crap. I thought it was nice to see him get some looks there. I think this is why I consider him a raw player. He has the body type to play SF, but he does not have the ball handling or shooting skills to do so.

2) We did try to run post ups for Tyrus a couple of times, but the problem is despite Tyrus's height advantage, he wasn't strong enough to push the guards away and get close to the hoop. The short guys have a lot of leverage, and were able to keep him from backing htem down when he tried to get position. We turned the ball over once that I recall going for this, and once Curry collapsed immediately when Tyrus was posting up Robinson, and then Tyrus hit Wallace who then hti Smith for a layup as Zach Randolph collapsed onto Wallace.

Anyway, I have no problem with the staff trying him at SF last night given that we didn't really have anyone putting in solid SF play anyway.

I actually don't have a major problem with the way the rotations worked out in the end except that, like always, I would have liked to see the young kids play. Particularly Aaron Gray could have used some minutes at the end since he was basically owning Curry on the offensive glass and getting easy looks, and we couldn't score.

However, more so than anything else, this game illustrated what a pile of crap this team is if we lose a major scorer. We basically have 2 above average scorers on the roster. Deng and Gordon. We then have 2 streaky scorers on the roster: hinrich and Nocioni. When Hinrich + Noc are off and one of the other guys is out, the team is basically hopeless.

[moocow007]

I thought Thomas did a fine job of keeping Zach Randolph off his game all night. It just seems that at times the Bulls are expecting Thomas to do more than he really is able to right now (like posting up). And to both his credit and detriment I think Thomas probably tries too hard (especially with Deng out) to do things that, again, is not his forte. Don't know what Thomas does in the offseason or who's working with him but they should definitley have an experienced big work with him on timing, postup position, his baby hook, etc. cause, as many have said, he really is not a SF.

[suckfish]

And to both his credit and detriment I think Thomas probably tries too hard (especially with Deng out) to do things that, again, is not his forte.

Most of that is because he hasn't been playing much. I think Ty feels like in the limited minutes he gets he has to prove himself to the coaches, this often means forced/rushed shots that he wouldn't normally take. Really he is better off taking his time letting the game come to him, but when you are sitting on the bench getting DNP's the minute you step on the floor you feel as if you have to prove something. He knows if he doesn't play well he probably won't play in the second half or even the next game.

[bullzman23]

I'm with Doug on this one. I'm not sure why people are so upset about this. The alternatives were Griffin and Sefolosha. Maybe Thabo would be a better alternative, but I'd definitely rather lose with Thomas than lose with Griffin. A lot of people have been calling for the development of Thomas. The bumps he faces are an important part of this development. The fact that so many have put him down for this particular performance shows a flimsy fan base, imo.

Every player needs to make mistakes in order to learn from them. Thomas is no different.

It seems like some posters are getting some pleasure out of saying I told you so. Well, don't. Thomas' skillset makes him a PF. I was always confused about why some initially argued that he was a SF. He has limited range and ball-handling abilities for that position, but they also give him the potential to be a difficult matchup at PF. David Robinson could do 360 dunks in his prime. Doesn't mean you suit him up at SG. It just means he's a highly skilled center.

Also, good things happen when you attack the basket. Thomas attacked the basket often and came up short. But he created easy putbacks for Noah and Gray.

The reaction of some people after one bad game is alarming. Where were you guys after the Kings game?

[jump]

this speaks to the averageness of the bulls pg play. the lack of a creative player in the backcourt really marginalizes the bulls front court players, which aren't (with the exception of wallace) as bad as many here tout.

a quality pg would do wonders for this team; even with the guards they'd retain.

Goulet. I've totally reversed my assessment of what the Bulls need after watching them this season. No longer am I concerned about low post scorers. I think we have the makings of an outstanding front line. What really concerns me is PG. I thought Kirk would have developed further by this time, but if anything, he seems to have regressed. We need a creative PG more than anything.

As for TT at SF...I think Boylan was desperately trying to find someone to handle the position last night. Deng was out, Noc was sick and worthless, Thabo seemed rusty. I don't think Boylan has any long term plans to play TT at SF. He was just trying to find someone to handle the position.

What was most brutal about the fourth quarter was that once again, no one could hit a shot (except Joe Smith, I guess). No one could finish at the rim. No one could hit a jumper. Basically, no one could drive and get free throws. That's how other teams win games. We just can't seem to handle it.

[moocow007]

And to both his credit and detriment I think Thomas probably tries too hard (especially with Deng out) to do things that, again, is not his forte.

Most of that is because he hasn't been playing much. I think Ty feels like in the limited minutes he gets he has to prove himself to the coaches, this often means forced/rushed shots that he wouldn't normally take. Really he is better off taking his time letting the game come to him, but when you are sitting on the bench getting DNP's the minute you step on the floor you feel as if you have to prove something. He knows if he doesn't play well he probably won't play in the second half or even the next game.

Yeah I agree.

Probably goes into the other discussion about a big man's coach that maybe can help focus on Thomas and Noah and get the extra work in they need, as well as be a mentor type to keep them on an even keel. Not sure if the Bulls have anyone in that capacity. Would seem to be a worthwhile investment (2 lottery picks) if they don't have someone in that role already.

[BR0D1E86]

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Yeah I agree.

Probably goes into the other discussion about a big man's coach that maybe

We don't do big man coaches here. Not since Cookie Monster got fired anyway.

[Eminjay7]

Damn, I'd love to have Patrick Ewing around here, he's done a great job on Yao&Dwight!!!

[kyrv]

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Yeah I agree.

Probably goes into the other discussion about a big man's coach that maybe can help focus on Thomas and Noah and get the extra work in they need, as well as be a mentor type to keep them on an even keel. Not sure if the Bulls have anyone in that capacity. Would seem to be a worthwhile investment (2 lottery picks) if they don't have someone in that role already.

Two lottery picks, and Gray, so three young bigs.

This has been a point of contention, as the we see other teams really developing the heck out of young big men, and we have Pete Meyers working with Noah on his shot (I'm not making that up, it's true).

[suckfish]

This has been a point of contention, as the we see other teams really developing the heck out of young big men, and we have Pete Meyers working with Noah on his shot (I'm not making that up, it's true).

Ideally you want a shooting specialist to work with your shooters, Noah isn't a shooter, he isn't even close to being an average shooter.

I don't think it's a big deal, Myers can teach Noah all the basics that he needs to improve. It's beginners stuff...Elbow in, follow through, good rotation, arc...

So until Noah can get good basic form down, or until he can start making jump shots effectively I don't see the need for a specific shooting coach. Any coach will do.

It's like teaching a kid to shoot, except kids are probably a little further along when it comes to jumpshots...

[Ben]

It's been a short thread thus far (3 pages), but this has still been a shining example of why I consider the Bulls RealGM forum home. Outstanding analysis and basketball acumen on several sides of the subject. Thanks for joining in too, Moocow.

[BR0D1E86]

It's been a short thread thus far (3 pages), but this has still been a shining example of why I consider the Bulls RealGM forum home. Outstanding analysis and basketball acumen on several sides of the subject. Thanks for joining in too, Moocow.

Plus dyno-mite Cookie Monster references right?

[Ben]

Plus dyno-mite Cookie Monster references right?

Were you talking about Deke?

[BR0D1E86]

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Were you talking about Deke?

Deke? Come on, can

[bullzman23]

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Deke? Come on, can