Flip Murray

dominique21 · Post #1 » by **dominique21** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:29 pm

Can we please just acquire this guy. He is a 1/2 that can pass and score.....a veteran in the backcourt that we need (who can actually ball, no offense T Lue, AJ) that can really help us down the stretch.

Not only that but he can be had for cheap because the Pistons rarely use him due to their depth. I seriously think we can get him for Lue, or Lorenzen and a 2nd round pick.

This is one of those minor deals that can have a huge impact on our season. Thoughts?

Rip2137 · Post #2 » by **Rip2137** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:05 pm

The guy can score in bunches but he also does alot of stuff that pisses off coaches and makes them bench him, like taking really ill advised shots.

But I do like the guy. I don't know how much of a passer i would call him, but he is definately a scorer and a solid defender.

I remember him putting up like 25 per game for a good chunk of the season in Seattle when Ray Allen was hurt.

JoshB914 · Post #3 » by **JoshB914** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:37 pm

No thank you. He's a complete ball hog.

conleyorbust · Post #4 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:44 pm

Not better than AJ unfortunately. He is a solid defender sometimes but he isn't a playmaker at all and he can't shoot from downtown. Maybe a scoring spark off the bench but this isn't the acquisition we need to be looking at. I think Duhon could be had for pretty cheap right now considering he had gone 1 for 21 from the floor in the 4 games preceding the loss to NYK.

dominique21 · Post #5 » by **dominique21** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:53 pm

JoshB914...read ur comments on this board makes me realize just how much you know about basketball.... :crazy:

Rip2137 · Post #6 » by **Rip2137** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:56 pm

But he's right. He is a ball hog. He is what Rickey Davis usually is. If you pass him the ball it was obviously because you wanted him to shoot it.

conleyorbust · Post #7 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:59 pm

dominique21 wrote:JoshB914...read ur comments on this board makes me realize just how much you know about basketball.... :crazy:

Uh... Flip does suck.

JoshB914 · Post #8 » by **JoshB914** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:06 pm

Flip Murray isn't a ball hog? My bad.

killbuckner · Post #9 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:35 pm

Actually Murray does pass the ball very well for a SG. He averages more assists per minute than Joe Johnson does for instance. Its just that he shoots a ton and doesn't shoot at a high percentage. He is a career .272 3 point shooter but still puts up one every 10 minutes or so.

Rip2137 · Post #10 » by **Rip2137** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:23 am

killbuckner wrote:Actually Murray does pass the ball very well for a SG. He averages more assists per minute than Joe Johnson does for instance. Its just that he shoots a ton and doesn't shoot at a high percentage. He is a career .272 3 point shooter but still puts up one every 10 minutes or so.

No he doesn't pass the ball well at all. He will give you 2-3 assist no matter how many minutes he plays.

His assist numbers are higher this year because of that Golden State game where he had 12 assist and he has all those DNP's this year.

He is a ball hog.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #11 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 am

I remember the Detroit game at Phillips when we were losing by about 25 before Detroit called off the dogs. What stuck out to me was Flip Murray and Salim Stoudamire...both of them made no attempt to pass the ball. They both tried to jack up as many shots as possible to pad their stats. Flip Murray is basically Willie Green(except Green's team is bad enough for him to start on)...I want no part of him.

Another interesting fact is that Flip can't play off the bench. When he started in Seattle and Cleveland(when Allen and Hughes were hurt)he put up decent numbers but went back to sucking as soon as he came off the bench. He is not the guy to use for instant offense off the bench.

killbuckner · Post #12 » by **killbuckner** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:59 am

RIp- you once again have no connection to reality. Last season Murray averaged 5.1 assists/40 minutes. Johnson averaged 4.2. Seriously- when a SG over the course of a season is passing the ball more than Joe Johnson then its ridiculous to call him a ballhog.

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #13 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:47 am

reddick or Amon Jones(No D) FTW!!!!!

Rip2137 · Post #14 » by **Rip2137** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:56 pm

killbuckner wrote:RIp- you once again have no connection to reality. Last season Murray averaged 5.1 assists/40 minutes. Johnson averaged 4.2. Seriously- when a SG over the course of a season is passing the ball more than Joe Johnson then its ridiculous to call him a ballhog.

And you once again proving that you only will rely on pointless stats to try and prove things that would be easily seen to be incorrect if you actually watched a basketball game every once and a while.

Who gives a crap about per 40 minutes. Does he PLAY 40 minutes? So why the hell should I care about a per 40 minute stat?

When he played 26 minutes a game for the Cavs, he averaged 2.8 assist.

Ricky Davis averaged 4.8 assist for the timberwolves. Now, go and find ONE person that watches basketball that things Ricky Davis isn't a ball hog and chucker. All those jokes about him being a chucker that announcers make? That becaus he is a ball hog and a chucker.

Step away from the boxscores and watch basketball everyone and awhile. you might be shocked at what you see.

conleyorbust · Post #15 » by **conleyorbust** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:41 pm

He is a solid passer for a SG but he is often used at PG where he isn't really special as a playmaker. If he were in Atlanta we would want him to either step in and upgrade the PG situation or improve our 3 point shooting. He might be an upgrade at the backup PG position but would it be worth it for us to take away more minutes from Acie to give them to a guy like Murray?

killbuckner · Post #16 » by **killbuckner** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:53 pm

RIP- you are so full of crap. How many minutes are you saying you watched flip murray this season to form your ridiculous opinion of him as a ballhog?

Last season Murrray's assist Ratio was the 6th highest for SG's in the league. Thats simply not the numbers of a ballhog no matter how much you want to stick your head in the sand about stats you don't understand. You want a ballhog, go look at Salim who was in the bottom 8 of SG's for assist ratio last season.

The problem for Murray isn't that he doesn't pass the ball, its that he shoots a crappy percentage when he does shoot it.

Rip2137 · Post #17 » by **Rip2137** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:16 pm

I have watched about 10 of the 19 games he has played in.

I also watched close to every game he played when he got traded to Cleveland. i also watched more than half of the games he played in seattle. I also watched him play last year.

And he is a freakin chucker. How many minutes have you watched him play to come up with the ridiculous thought that the guy that once shot 12 times per game when he was getting 21 minutes per game isn't a chucker?

Here is a fun point. i don't give a crap how many assist he has. Have you watched detroit play? how many plays start on the right block and end with a jumper on the left wing after the ball swung around? Does flip being the one swinging the ball make him a decent playmaker now?

Flip, like Salim, comes in and puts up shots. Flip did the same as a starter, a backup, alot of minutes, few minutes...it really doesn't matter. He shoots when he is open, not open, early in the shot clock, late in the shot clock, it doesn't matter. if he touches the ball you should start blocking out.

This is from WATCHING him play. Just try it. thats all i am asking.

killbuckner · Post #18 » by **killbuckner** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:38 pm

Rip- if you have watched that much of Flip Murray and have failed to notice that he gets an assist on 1/4 of his possessions then I think your observations are rather worthless. Murray shoots too much- he is a lousy shooter. But it doesn't change the fact that he is a good passer for a SG and does move the ball around. To put it in perspective, this season that puts him right in between Jarrett Jack and Delonte West among SG's. Calling him a ball hog is absolutely ridiculous and shows how little your opinion from watching games is actually worth.

Post #19 » by **roc** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:49 am

Why don't you ask this 'ballhog' question on the Detroit board and see what the response is?

The last 2 games before he got benched, we were waaay ahead. Amir got some burn but rarely touched the ball, wonder who all us Piston fans were pissed at because of that. Those 2 games as the clock was winding down and the possession should have been dribbled out someone launched a 3 a click before the buzzer. Wonder who that was? Someone is now collecting ass splinters.

We'll give you Murray for Speedy and throw in Hayes/Prince as filler and you guys can toss in Chill and Marvin to fill out the salary constraints. :wink:

triplet1984 · Post #20 » by **triplet1984** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:13 pm

I'm a pistons fan and Flip Murray is a ballhog. He may be of some use to you guys if you want him to run in and score in bunches, but dont expect consistency. We replaced him in the lineup with two ROOKIES (a sg in afflalo and a combo guard in stuckey).