Hollinger's All-Star Ballot

[Alex_De_Large]

This is what he would like to happen or he thinks should happen right? cause i don't think nobody can think that CP3 will play as a starter instead of nash or tmac, i mean, chris paul must go FOR SURE to the all star game, but watch what people is voting. also calderon will not go instead of kidd.

[MoPeteRules]

considering that his picks were made through math equations, they are pretty good overall.. I'm surprised that Kidd isn't on there despite putting up tons of rebounds/assists this year.. you'd think that would raise his PER quite a bit? Shooting 36% must've been a huge hit to the PER though.
I especially like Chris Paul starting as opposed to coming off the bench, because he is probably the best PG in the NBA right now.

[kidd0701]

Hollinger is the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) writer ever. He hates the Nets. The nets can go win 10 in a row and he will still say they suck.

Kidd will be an allstar, most likely starter, and one of Carter or RJ should be on it also. Both may deserve it, but taking 3 players from a .500 team is not realistic.

[MaxRider]

Hollinger is the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) writer ever. He hates the Nets. The nets can go win 10 in a row and he will still say they suck.

Kidd will be an allstar, most likely starter, and one of Carter or RJ should be on it also. Both may deserve it, but taking 3 players from a .500 team is not realistic.

Jefferson got to be in it
he's having a career year
Carter on the other hand ...

[Schad]

Hollinger is the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) writer ever. He hates the Nets. The nets can go win 10 in a row and he will still say they suck.

Kidd will be an allstar, most likely starter, and one of Carter or RJ should be on it also. Both may deserve it, but taking 3 players from a .500 team is not realistic.

Again, Hollinger doesn't hate the Nets...his statistical models do. Here's why: based on the numbers, rather than a 17-16 team (before they got blown out tonight), their expected record stood at 12-21. Hollinger's not fond of the Nets because their three best players are known for their offense, yet the Nets rank 23rd in offensive efficiency and the big three don't do spectacularly in PER.

[C.Boshly]

-= original quote snipped =-



I don't know if the Raptors had a 1 year window to win a championship and were forced to take either Calderon or Kidd as their starting point guard they'd take Kidd rather easily.

Jose has been impressive but I like it when my point guard isn't a complete liability on defense, or in the clutch.

I like it when my PG shoots above 40%

I don't think you have enough knowledge of Jose game to say he isn't clutch. I guess missing one pass last year is enough to brand a player as unclutch?

Jose was clutch at the line last week against New Orleans after MVP candidate Chris Paul choked.

Besides all my comments above I would choose Kidd.

[risktaker91]

Kidd will obviously be the starting point guard for the East, but it's nice to see Calderon get some respect.

[Copperhead]

Calm down people. It's just Hollingers' All-Star ballot. He has no say in who starts. He's only saying who HIS All-Stars would be. We know Calderon will not be starting over Jason Kidd. Calderon isn't even in the top 10 voting of Eastern Guards.

[ilikecb4]

I agree with most of your list

EAST:

C - Howard - lock-best C in the NBA
F - Garnett -lock
F - James -lock
G - Wade -lock
G - Billups -lock

C - Bosh -raptors have a winning record he's the franchise, should be in
F - Butler - having a spectacular season
F - Pierce -all-star level season , team will win around 70 games
G - Hamilton - plays at high level, not a lock
G - Kidd -triple double machine, despite offensive flaws should be in
X - Jamison -great offensive player, not a lock
X - Jefferson- career year, not sure if nets deserve 2 all-stars really

Close: J Smith, Carter, Calderon, dont think any of these guys deserve it..i'm thinking the next on the list would be Rashard Lewis or Hedo Turkolgu, Ray Allen? Why the hell is ray allen not there...? Celtics should have 3 all-stars because they do...Nets or Wizards should have one less all-star

WEST:

C - Yao -lock
F - Duncan -lock
F - Nowitzki-lock
G - Bryant-lock
G - Paul-lock

C - Stoudemire-lock
F - Boozer-either him or Deron
F - Anthony-absolute lock...he's a monster
G - Nash-absolute lock
G - Iverson-career year, absolute lock
X - Ginobili-debatable-i think manu deserves it
X - Baron-i actually think Stephen Jackson should be an all-star..i'd rather put Roy
Close: Roy, Marion, Howard, Deron

[Rasheed36]

Does anyone else think it's messed up when T-Mac or Kobe has to play point why the legit PGs have to watch? This is why Sheed should be the reserve center for the east. Sorry but having 6-7 fowards and only one real center is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

[ilikecb4]

Does anyone else think it's messed up when T-Mac or Kobe has to play point why the legit PGs have to watch? This is why Sheed should be the reserve center for the east. Sorry but having 6-7 fowards and only one real center is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

t-mac shouldnt even be in the all-star game..let alone a starter

[Alex_De_Large]

tmac no and wade yes?

[conleyorbust]

-= original quote snipped =-



Again, Hollinger doesn't hate the Nets...his statistical models do. Here's why: based on the numbers, rather than a 17-16 team (before they got blown out tonight), their expected record stood at 12-21. Hollinger's not fond of the Nets because their three best players are known for their offense, yet the Nets rank 23rd in offensive efficiency and the big three don't do spectacularly in PER.

... and in a way he is right because if you look at most other teams with a "Big 3" (SA, PHX, and BOS) they are a lot better even though most people consider Kidd and Carter to be elite players and Jefferson a borderline AS.

Anyway, Kidd has a legit claim to the AS game but so does Calderon. Calderon is a lot better than Kidd on offense and there is really no way around it. If someone thinks that Kidd deserves based on his defense and rebounding thats fine with me but its not a ridiculous question at all.

[Liqourish]

The only Net who deserves to be an All-Star this year is Jefferson. He is having a career year and has really upped his play to that among the best in the league.

Kidd is upping his triple double stats, but overall, this year he has really declined. He'll start based on his rep and the fact that everyone brings up his triple doubles, not because he actually belongs there.

PPG-lowest of his career
fg%-lowest of his career
3pt%- lowest in 4 years
TO's- highest in 4 years

His team is at .500 and is currently 7th in the East with Atlanta and Indiana right behind the Nets ready to knock them into the lottery.

Mock Hollinger's rating system all you want, but Jason Kidd does not deserve to be an All-Star this year.

[Rich Rane]

-= original quote snipped =-



... and in a way he is right because if you look at most other teams with a "Big 3" (SA, PHX, and BOS) they are a lot better even though most people consider Kidd and Carter to be elite players and Jefferson a borderline AS.

The difference is they're a lot more versatile since at least one of their Big 3 is at the 4/5. PER discredits coaching, substitutions and other players on the floor, playcalling, defense...how is this a great stat?

PPG-lowest of his career
fg%-lowest of his career
3pt%- lowest in 4 years
TO's- highest in 4 years

These are all scoring stats, something Kidd's not known for. A lot of the shots he takes are at the end of the 24 from being the last scoring option on the floor. The turnovers are the result of him risking a lot more than in the past as we're trying to speed up our offense (Such as 4 seasons ago). Sorry, but in every aspect of the game other than shooting, Kidd owns Calderon.

[Liqourish]

-= original quote snipped =-
These are all scoring stats, something Kidd's not known for. A lot of the shots he takes are at the end of the 24 from being the last scoring option on the floor. The turnovers are the result of him risking a lot more than in the past as we're trying to speed up our offense (Such as 4 seasons ago). Sorry, but in every aspect of the game other than shooting, Kidd owns Calderon.

I never said anything about Calderon. In fact, I don't believe Calderon should be a ballboy at the All-Star game. I was merely disucssing Jason Kidd.

[conleyorbust]

Rich, do actually think Kidd "owns" Calderon as a passer? Thats just ridiculous. Whether you want to admit it or not, Turnovers hurt teams in a few ways. It's a waste of a possession, it often leads to easy points because the defense doesn't get set, and it ruins offensive rythm. Also Kidd's shooting stats don't just mean that he is a bad scorer, it makes it easy to defend everyone else on the team. Do you think advance scouts look at the team and say, "don't double Carter because Kidd rebound really well".

I'm not saying that Calderon is better than Kidd but I think its getting ridiculous how Kidd supporters look at him and say that his 11 points on 36% shooting doesn't matter because he has never been a shooter and his 4 TOs a game don't matter either because he is trying to speed up the team... unsuccessfully apparently. His defense has slipped and there is no denying it. He is still a good passer but he has way too many strikes, he is an above average defender but nowhere near elite, he is a terrible scorer, and he is an amazing rebounder. I think that he may be deserving of all-star status but give me a break on PER on accurately representing Kidd.

[NetsForce]

^ Kidd's defense against point guards has slipped, put him on a wing player and he'll still do his thing though... ^

I agree with you in regards to his turnovers per game, but come on he's "only" averaging 3.76 turnovers per game if we round that up to 4 turnovers per game then let's also round Nash's 3.62 turnovers per game up to 4 as well... Sorry I just wanted to point that out, but as I was saying his turnovers have been ugly this year and I think he has to tone down his high risk high reward pass attempts too many of his turnovers are the result of risky passes.

Like I said on a thread on the Nets board in that regard I think age is starting to catch up with Kidd, that's also the only reason I can give you for his horrid shooting numbers.

With all that said though, and acknowledging the fact that Calderon is having a terrific season, I'd still put Kidd into the all-star game before Jose.

I think it's telling that if a team had a one-year window to win a title (that year being this year) and they had to choose between Kidd or Calderon to add to their team most, if not all teams would take Kidd.

<--- Okay I guess that's just my opinion, but I ended up asking a couple of friends the same question yesterday and they all said Kidd (none of them were Nets fans).

[Rich Rane]

Rich, do actually think Kidd "owns" Calderon as a passer? Thats just ridiculous.

You tell me why Calderon is such an elite passer? The only ones I credit as elite passers this season other than Kidd are Nash and Paul.

Turnovers hurt teams in a few ways. It's a waste of a possession, it often leads to easy points because the defense doesn't get set, and it ruins offensive rythm.

In trying to run a full court offense, it's not that easy when you have half-court guys like Carter or even Collins being on the receiving end of a nice pass. Not to mention any 4/5 on the team hasn't exactly matched up perfectly to Kidd's game. Our offense becomes less versatile and more predictable to the defense. Our coach doesn't know how to adjust and we make teams look much better than they are.

Hell, why don't I see this much against Nash? He has the tools to run a fast paced offense and still averages the same amount of turnovers? Not to mention Phoenix sometimes has to switch off if the opposing PG is nasty because of Nash's lack of defense. Oh yeah, because that team wins so let's all credit Nash for their success.

Also Kidd's shooting stats don't just mean that he is a bad scorer, it makes it easy to defend everyone else on the team. Do you think advance scouts look at the team and say, "don't double Carter because Kidd rebound really well".

No I would believe scouts would say defend Kidd at all costs from running the offense fluidly because once he finds that open man, we're going to have hell to pay.

The only problem when finding the open man is that the guy who usually comes to double is the guy guarding Collins (He doesn't start, but he still gets time).

His defense has slipped and there is no denying it.

His help defense is still excellent and his man-to-man is above average. Still a great defender.

He is still a elite passer but he has way too many strikes, he is an above average defender but nowhere near elite, he is a terrible scorer, and he is an amazing rebounder.

He's still an elite passer. Not good, elite. So you'll say he's declining big time since he's a bit slower on his first step, can't shoot, and his turnovers are up. I'll say without him, we win something around what Miami has right now, whatever the number of wins they have.

I think that he may be deserving of all-star status but give me a break on PER on accurately representing Kidd.

I'm on the same page as you. It doesn't accurately represent Kidd.

[Balls]

-= original quote snipped =-



t-mac shouldnt even be in the all-star game..let alone a starter