NBA players thoughts>>>Real GM stat hawks???

[kp117]

"Respect from my peers is more important than anything," said Davis, a two-time All-Star. "When guys like Steve Nash and Tony Parker and other guards give me that respect - that's all that matters to me. People like Allen Iverson telling me they love my game and how much they respect me as a player."

Often we come on here and try to discredit Baron Davis because of FG% and other geek-boy stats, but when the actual NBA players come out and respect the crossover that just broke their ankles; I question whether Baron detractors just cant see past their stats and numbers and recognize real basketball talent in its purest form.

EDIT: Mentioning specific posters does nothing but lose you credibility.

-miller

[Taiwan Killa]

I agree with you. I think Steve Nash knows more about basketball than NO-KG-AI

[miller31time]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make here, because statistics (in-depth ones) show that Baron Davis is a very good player and having an excellent season.

Does he put up ill-advised shots? Absolutely, but with players like Baron, it's his predictable unpredictability that makes him as lethal and unguardable as he is. This is reflected in his eFG% and TS%, but he does a great job at drawing fouls and his PER is excellent (21.59).

So yeah, not sure where you're going with this.

[Doctor MJ]

"Respect from my peers is more important than anything," said Davis, a two-time All-Star. "When guys like Steve Nash and Tony Parker and other guards give me that respect - that's all that matters to me. People like Allen Iverson telling me they love my game and how much they respect me as a player."

Often we come on here and try to discredit Baron Davis because of FG% and other geek-boy stats, but when the actual NBA players come out and respect the crossover that just broke their ankles; I question whether Baron detractors (NO-KG-AI, Tom Chambers) just cant see past their stats and numbers and recognize real basketball talent in its purest form.

I'm really not a Baron-hater, he's in my top 10 for MVP, but I just love that FG%, a stat that's been around essentially forever because it's always been obvious to everyone in the game that it's very important, is now a "geek-boy" stat.

Meanwhile, I take opinions from pros about other pros with a boulder of salt.

[miller31time]

Meanwhile, I take opinions from pros about other pros with a boulder of salt.

Quoted for emphasis.

[Doctor MJ]

-= original quote snipped =-



Quoted for emphasis.

Yup. And to be clear, I take opinions from pros about the game of basketball as a whole very seriously. The issue isn't their knowledge but their objectivity.

[NO-KG-AI]

LOL I was the called out poster? Niceeee.

[Ballings7]

Can't go too much on stats. In several areas.

[Joseph17]

I think Baron Davis is a great player. I believe that he's in the same league as Kidd, Williams, and Paul. What I disagree with you on is your belief that fg% is a geeky-boy stat. An average NBA player can score 30 ppg with horrible fg%. Fg% is what separates the average scorers from the superstars in the NBA. If an average NBA player took 20+ shots a game like Lebron James, I can almost guarantee you that their fg% would be below 40%.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't get what is so difficult about FG% really, higher FG% means you make more of the shots you take... which is a good thing....

and BTW, Baron is not in Chris Paul's league right now.

[miller31time]

Personally, I don't even go by fg% anymore, especially when discussion perimeter players.

[Joseph17]

Personally, I don't even go by fg% anymore, especially when discussion perimeter players.

Why not? When you are comparing two perimeter players that have similar roles, I think fg% can be useful. It gets out of hand when people are comparing a guard's fg% to a center's fg%.

[NO-KG-AI]

He probably uses TS% and EFG% both of which are much better.

The OP didn't mean specifically FG% I assume, I bet he hates when we use %'s at all.

And as much as I love AI, and think he plays far above his numbers, him giving an inefficient scorer props isn't surprising

the difference being Baron shoots worse on far less volume than AI.

Edit: and no, I don't hate Baron, I just hate his mentality of not using his physical gifts to the fullest, he should be much more efficient.

The last Hornets game was a great example, he was dominating Chris Paul with his strength, and Chris was trying to match him punch for punch and was getting frustrated during the onset of the game.

Down the stretch, Baron stopped being aggressive, and Chris settled in and started to look to his teammates, and dominated the 4th quarter, with like 11 points down the stretch.

Baron is terrific... when he is attacking the basket, he should be shooting the ball very rarely... because quite frankly there is no 1 man at PG that can really stop him from getting to the hoop.

[The_Believer]

The stats show Baron is a superstar. He also several TOs on the defensive end while putting up 22-5-8-2. (only player to average 20-5-5-2, as of yesterday) He's top 2-15 in several categories. He is definitely worthy of an All-Star Selection, and has a strong chance of all nba first team if he continues to play this well.

Baron> Paul defensively. Paul never guards elite offensive sgs/sfs. Baron has had to guard Kobe, TMac, Pierce, Melo, AI, LeBron, Wade, Artest, Marion (when Jax wasn't on him), and the opposing team's superstar. How many PGs have guarded those guys for an entire game and shut them down? Baron shuts down powerful penetrators in the post and prevents them from driving, forcing them to shoot long jumpers. (Baron held Kobe to 6-23 and 7-22 shooting, while holding Wade to an 0-4 4th quarter. He also forced a shot clock violation vs. Melo, blocked him on next possession, then hit a clutch shot on the other end).

[NO-KG-AI]

The stats show Baron is a superstar. He also several TOs on the defensive end while putting up 22-5-8-2. (only player to average 20-5-5-2, as of yesterday) He's top 2-15 in several categories. He is definitely worthy of an All-Star Selection, and has a strong chance of all nba first team if he continues to play this well.

Baron> Paul defensively. Paul never guards elite offensive sgs/sfs. Baron has had to guard Kobe, TMac, Pierce, Melo, AI, LeBron, Wade, Artest, Marion (when Jax wasn't on him), and the opposing team's superstar. How many PGs have guarded those guys for an entire game and shut them down? Baron shuts down powerful penetrators in the post and prevents them from driving, forcing them to shoot long jumpers. (Baron held Kobe to 6-23 and 7-22 shooting, while holding Wade to an 0-4 4th quarter. He also forced a shot clock violation vs. Melo, blocked him on next possession, then hit a clutch shot on the other end).

Paul is definitely a better defender than Baron, especially at the point guard spot(you know... their position).

Baron is a better defender when he wants to be, but that isn't all game, and Chris is about the scrappiest guy in the league, and he's in your grill the entire game.... and he is better at making steals without gambling.

I'm not gonna tout individual defensive moments, because everyone has their big moments defensively.

[The_Believer]

-= original quote snipped =-



Paul is definitely a better defender than Baron, especially at the point guard spot(you know... their position).

Baron is a better defender when he wants to be, but that isn't all game, and Chris is about the scrappiest guy in the league, and he's in your grill the entire game.... and he is better at making steals without gambling.

I'm not gonna tout individual defensive moments, because everyone has their big moments defensively.

If Paul tried to guard any of those guys, he'd be used and abused every second.

[BROWN]

and BTW, Baron is not in Chris Paul's league right now.

I saw this coming from you haha. lol

But defensively guarding the elite guards in the league, you have to give it to baron. Going man to man, using their bodies to try to stay in front has to be baron.

I'll give it to Paul having better instincts on the D , on when to reach and when to step away and tap the ball away from the back.

But Paul would get abused by guys like Kobe, Wade, James, Anthony, Marion etc...
Guys that Baron tends to guard during stretches of each game.
Mid-Range shooting , Paul takes it with ease.
3 point shooting, i can't say , both are not to great, Paul can light it up but that's not his game, and Baron can shoot himself into a 3 , or out every game he's just that type of player.
Inside play, has to be Baron, even tho Paul gets into lane with the great stutter step and speed, but Baron when he uses his body destroys other teams..

the MASSIVE difference between both Point Guards is that, Paul knows what his game is and uses it to his full advantage, while Baron doesn't.

[xcomputerman]

I'm a stat hawk, and from what I can see, statistically speaking Baron Davis ranks 2nd behind only LeBron for league MVP so far. (See BasketballValue.com)

His offensive rating +/- is an astounding +15.58, and for detractors to his defense, -5.08 is pretty impressive as well. His impact on the team on both ends of the court is tremendous.

[xcomputerman]

Just as an addendum for those claiming that Paul is a better defender than Davis: Paul's defensive +/- is actually a positive 0.87, so either he's a good individual defender but a poor team defender, or he's mediocre at best. His brilliance is all on the offensive end, but even there he doesn't impact his team as much as Davis does, so personally I'd rank him a notch below Davis overall regardless.

[NO-KG-AI]

^^ LOL