Official Bargnani Discussion Thread

[supersub15]

How high? He's currently among the worst on the all-time list of players 6'10" or bigger that can't rebound.

Let me explain: 1970-71 is the first season for which Rebound Rate (percentage of misses that a player rebounds when on the floor) is available. Consequently, I can't say whether there were worse players from the earlier years in the NBA. But given the numbers I'm about to expose, he'd still probably rank among the worst.

I started first by analyzing the numbers for players whose primary position was CENTER, but to be fair to Bargnani, he's played mostly as a forward in his first year, so I decided to include all player who were 6.10 or bigger in my analysis, disregarding their position.

The list:
(Ranking - Name - Career Years - Height - RbR)
1. Matt Bullard (1991-2002) - 6.10 - 7.9%
2. Cliff Robinson (1990-2007) - 6.10 - 8.4%
3. Jonathan Bender (2000-2006) - 6.11 - 8.4%
4. Danny Ferry (1991-2003) - 6.10 - 8.4%
5. Alexander Volkov (1990-1992) - 6.10 - 8.5%
6. Hedo Turkoglu (2001-2007) - 6.10 - 8.6%
7. Walter McCarty (1997-2006) - 6.10 - 8.6%
8. Brad Sellers (1987-1993) - 7.00 - 8.6%
9. Andrea Bargnani (2006-2008) - 7.00 - 8.9%
10. Fred Roberts (1984-1997) - 6.10 - 8.9%

The only real center in that list is Brad Sellers who played mostly for the Chicago Bulls, so that puts Bargnani 2nd among centers.

Now, I've also went ahead and did a comparison for worst rebounding centers in a single season:

1. Brad Sellers (7'0")- Chicago Bulls (1987-1988) - 6.5%
2. Brad Sellers (7'0")- Chicago Bulls (1989-1990) - 7.5%
3. Brad Sellers (7'0")- Chicago Bulls (1988-1989) - 7.6%
4. James Edwards (7'0") - LA Clippers (1991-1992) - 7.8%
5. Brad Lohaus (6'11") - Miami Heat (1994-1995) - 8.2%
6. James Edwards (7'0") - Detroit Pistons (1990-91) - 8.3%
7. Andrea Bargnani (7'0") - Toronto Raptors (2007-2008) - 8.5%*

* Andrea's number does not take into account last night's game.

[gangstaff]

You're a glutton for punishment big guy Even if you're right, you're still gonna be wrong!

[Dam]

yeah...but bargs not a C....is a PF

no boards..
not much defense..

but bargs is a PF...PF with much offense.
the raps insist on him for play center...NO.

for me...the only solution is a trade with really center.

NB SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH...i hope that my concept is clear, sorry.

[El Presidente]

OK, Bargnani sucks at rebounding. Tell me something that I can't know by watching a game. No offense SS but I'm a little tired of the "this is how bad Bargs sucks" threads.

[C Court]

OK, Bargnani sucks at rebounding. Tell me something that I can't know by watching a game. No offense SS but I'm a little tired of the "this is how bad Bargs sucks" threads.

+1.

I don't mind fair criticism of Bargnani, but at what point do we say 'OK, we get it - his rebounding sucks' and move on or at least give it a rest for awhile?

[kingr]

OK, Bargnani sucks at rebounding. Tell me something that I can't know by watching a game. No offense SS but I'm a little tired of the "this is how bad Bargs sucks" threads.

-1

Bargnani is overrated on this board.

[emfive]

One might argue that the board is reaching new lows when we single out the youngest player for a problem which is endemic to the whole team.

[juucer]

One might argue that the board is reaching new lows when we single out the youngest player for a problem which is endemic to the whole team.

Disagree.

As the PF/C, he is expected and needed to rebound. Just like the PG is expected and needed to distribute the ball.

We slaughtered Rafer Alston for his lack of adequate point guard skills, and imo that is no different than slaughtering Bargs for his lack of C skills.

[chsh22]

I agree completely. Let's give Hump 30 MPG and see how we do! He does after all rebound very well.

[emfive]

-= original quote snipped =-



Disagree.

As the PF/C, he is expected and needed to rebound. Just like the PG is expected and needed to distribute the ball.

We slaughtered Rafer Alston for his lack of adequate point guard skills, and imo that is no different than slaughtering Bargs for his lack of C skills.

I have no clue what you are talking about re Rafer? No PG skills? You must be thinking of another player. His issue was attitude not skills.

Concerning the rebounding, I guess you are suggesting that the way to fix the team rebounding is to get after Bargs? I disagree.

[kyrils]

How high? He's currently among the worst on the all-time list of players 6'10" or bigger that can't rebound.

Let me explain: 1970-71 is the first season for which Rebound Rate (percentage of misses that a player rebounds when on the floor) is available. Consequently, I can't say whether there were worse players from the earlier years in the NBA. But given the numbers I'm about to expose, he'd still probably rank among the worst.

I started first by analyzing the numbers for players whose primary position was CENTER, but to be fair to Bargnani, he's played mostly as a forward in his first year, so I decided to include all player who were 6.10 or bigger in my analysis, disregarding their position.

The list:
(Ranking - Name - Career Years - Height - RbR)
1. Matt Bullard (1991-2002) - 6.10 - 7.9%
2. Cliff Robinson (1990-2007) - 6.10 - 8.4%
3. Jonathan Bender (2000-2006) - 6.11 - 8.4%
4. Danny Ferry (1991-2003) - 6.10 - 8.4%
5. Alexander Volkov (1990-1992) - 6.10 - 8.5%
6. Hedo Turkoglu (2001-2007) - 6.10 - 8.6%
7. Walter McCarty (1997-2006) - 6.10 - 8.6%
8. Brad Sellers (1987-1993) - 7.00 - 8.6%
9. Andrea Bargnani (2006-2008) - 7.00 - 8.9%
10. Fred Roberts (1984-1997) - 6.10 - 8.9%

The only real center in that list is Brad Sellers who played mostly for the Chicago Bulls, so that puts Bargnani 2nd among centers.

Now, I've also went ahead and did a comparison for worst rebounding centers in a single season:

1. Brad Sellers (7'0")- Chicago Bulls (1987-1988) - 6.5%
2. Brad Sellers (7'0")- Chicago Bulls (1989-1990) - 7.5%
3. Brad Sellers (7'0")- Chicago Bulls (1988-1989) - 7.6%
4. James Edwards (7'0") - LA Clippers (1991-1992) - 7.8%
5. Brad Lohaus (6'11") - Miami Heat (1994-1995) - 8.2%
6. James Edwards (7'0") - Detroit Pistons (1990-91) - 8.3%
7. Andrea Bargnani (7'0") - Toronto Raptors (2007-2008) - 8.5%*

* Andrea's number does not take into account last night's game.

Your statistical analasys is flawed as you should only use defensive rebounds.
Comparing a player who has spent 50% of his playing time at the 3 point line doesn't show his rebounding ability. If you use only defensive rebounds then you will get a truer sense of rebounding ability.
That said his numbers may not be that great but you can argue that bargs wasn't drafted because of his rebounding ability.

Seems more like you are trying to prove a point rather than doing an investigation of reality.

[Toxicity]

Bargs may be the worst rebounder all-time but he's still at 1/4 of his second NBA season... give him time, stop starting stupid threads.

[elmer_yuck]

It's getting harder and harder for Bargnani supporters to
defend him. He has been awful this season.
What must Sam Mitchell really think about him?
Sam was a moderately talented player that had to work
his butt off to get into the league, and then continue to
work hard to stay in the league. Nothing was handed to
him.
Contrast that with Ms. Bargnani, who isn't tough, doesn't
work hard, and has had everything handed to him.
Publicly Sam says all the right things.
Privately he must be ready to strangle Bargnani.

[Duffman100]

Yawn, everyone knows this. Post something original.

[rdtx2005]

Next on Supersub15...... Bargnani's travel woes reaching new "lengths"

[miruss2001]

-= original quote snipped =-



Your statistical analasys is flawed as you should only use defensive rebounds.
Comparing a player who has spent 50% of his playing time at the 3 point line doesn't show his rebounding ability. If you use only defensive rebounds then you will get a truer sense of rebounding ability.

Actually if you look at the list, half of those guys were jump shooting big men anyway- perhaps not with Barg's range but shooters nevertheless.

So counting defensive rebounds is not as accurate. If it was the better barometer, they'd only show d-boards and have o-boards as a different category. I actually would prefer that from a fantasy point of view because the latter is far more valuable than the former.

In short, weak argument.

[Toxicity]

It's getting harder and harder for Bargnani supporters to
defend him. He has been awful this season.
What must Sam Mitchell really think about him?
Sam was a moderately talented player that had to work
his butt off to get into the league, and then continue to
work hard to stay in the league. Nothing was handed to
him.
Contrast that with Ms. Bargnani, who isn't tough, doesn't
work hard, and has had everything handed to him.
Publicly Sam says all the right things.
Privately he must be ready to strangle Bargnani.

You know that or you're supposing it?

In Italy he was known as hard worker... even if he's playing bad it doesn't mean he's not trying.

[HiJiNX]

Notice that almost all of this guys were perimeter oriented big men?

[MrBojangelz71]

I've been backing AB since day one but after last night my disappointment towards his lack luster D is at an all time high. I don't care if he goes 1 of 5 FG or 0 for 4 from 3pnt land, that'll eventually come. It's his laziness on D and lack of attention on the boards that's getting to me. I was cursing him last night after not blocking out his man and allowing them with an offensive board. My GF said I was being to hard on him and his D isn't that bad, just relax. I told her on Philly's next possession, just watch AB and how he plays D. Well, next possession AB leaves Dalembert to give help at the arc for Miller????? Well Dalembert gets the board. Same possession after Sam gets the board, AB leaves his man Evans and again helps high allowing guess who to get the board, Evans. One possession, 2 blown assignments and 2 offensive boards. After that chain of events my GF was hollering at him louder than myself.
He looked like a lost zombie out there, not paying attention, watching shots while his man is left unattended and just not giving much effort for the ball. He seems very uninterested in playing D, especially if he isn't getting much burn on the offensive end of things and it's really starting to irk me. Like I said, the offensive is forgivable and eventually his shots will drop, but not caring or trying on the defensive end of things is unacceptable. I think he needs another bosh verbal lashing to snap him back into reality cause right now he looks lost in the clouds.
I love AB and what he brought to this team last season and I very much want him back to that level but with efforts such as last night he shouldn't even be allowed on the floor.

[dagger]

Bargs may be the worst rebounder all-time but he's still at 1/4 of his second NBA season... give him time, stop starting stupid threads.

+1

I'm tired of agenda driven posters like Scrub. How does Bargnani rate among all-time first overall picks in three point shooting? Not interested, eh Scrub.

There isn't a Raptor fan who doesn't want/expect/demand that Bargnani rebound more, but everything has a relative weighting in the big picture, and the anti-Bargnani people will ignore a nice run of games by AP or CB or JC to harp on Bargnani as if we're heading for a 24-win season.

It's all out of proportion, and it speaks to the character - or lack thereof - of the poster as much as the poor rebounding of #7.