K.C: Room for a Bulls turnaround running out

[Hold That]

Room for a Bulls turnaround running out
Need wins now, or it'll be time to look toward next season

By K.C. Johnson
Tribune staff reporter

January 9, 2008, 9:55 PM CST

Chris Duhon may be mired in a horrific shooting slump, but give the fourth-year guard major props for his dead-on assessment of the underachieving Bulls.

"We're playing like a below-average team," Duhon said after Wednesday's workout at the Berto Center. "Do we have the capabilities of being something better than that? Of course. But it's up to us. You can't place any titles on us just because of what we have done in the past.This is this year's team and we're a below-average team.

On this date last season the Bulls had put their 3-9 start behind them and stood at 20-15, thanks to a 12-1 stretch over November and December.

This 13-20 team's longest winning streak is two games, accomplished three times. And Tuesday's brutal home loss to the lowly Knicks reminds all that this team can go south in a hurry.

Interim coach Jim Boylan spent part of Wednesday's film session reminding his players that, remarkably, they stood just three games out of the eighth and final playoff spot and just four games behind the fourth seed in the not-as-good-as-advertised Eastern Conference.

That's what Boylan should do. But with a four-game trip beginning Friday with a visit to the Philadelphia 76ers, to whom the Bulls lost their home opener; continuing Sunday against an improved Atlanta team; landing in Orlando to face the powerhouse Magic next Tuesday and concluding with a back-to-back in Miami, the Bulls' challenge continues.

One doesn't need to search the archives for long to know that if victories don't start coming in bunches soon, development minutes will. Here's general manager John Paxson from Dec. 27:

"If things don't start to turn around to where we play better and win more games, of course there's going to come a time where I'm going to have to see our young guys on the floor for significant minutes. I'm certainly not putting that on Jim now. That wouldn't be fair to him. I want him to go about this trying to do what he thinks is right in terms of tightening up our rotation and finding combinations on the floor that help us win games. We're still trying to do that."

On Wednesday, Boylan suggested the goals of development and winning don't have to be mutually exclusive. Tim Floyd used to say the same thing.

It's worth recalling, though, that the Bulls made the playoffs in 2004-05 with contributions from rookies Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni.

"Our main objective right now is to win," Boylan said. "But at the same time, for us to win, we need our young guys to play well. I shortened the rotation but I can't kill the veteran guys. It's a long season. The last couple of games, the young guys have been playing a little more and they've done well. I have confidence in them. And they need to step up and help us."

Last season's Bulls team also had a 10-3 stretch over late March and early April. Typically, NBA teams go on long runs because one facet is always consistent. That was defense last season.

But with the Bulls ranking 11th in points allowed, 13th in opponents' field-goal percentage and seventh in forced turnovers, the jury is still out on that end.

"I think we're still a good defensive team," Boylan said. "We've gotten a little loose with our weak-side help and our shell defense. But in close games recently, down the stretch we've made some big stops. We just need a more consistent effort for longer stretches."

Either the most na

[Hold That]

"If things don't start to turn around to where we play better and win more games, of course there's going to come a time where I'm going to have to see our young guys on the floor for significant minutes.

So losing is the only hope we have of Tyrus,Noah and Thabo playing extended minutes?

I guess I'll be rooting for more losses then.

[theanimal23]

"If things don't start to turn around to where we play better and win more games, of course there's going to come a time where I'm going to have to see our young guys on the floor for significant minutes.

So losing is the only hope we have of Tyrus,Noah and Thabo playing extended minutes?

I guess I'll be rooting for more losses then.

That and a potential franchise player

[Beryl 96]

Potential and bulls don't mix well, this isn't an organization thats good at crafting stars, so we better hope we stumble onto something that doesn't need much crafting on our part.

[AirP.]

Interesting... I always thought you had a learning curve with young players, that it takes time for them to get better playing against the better talent in games and slowly becoming more consistent. It would seem that Skiles and Boylan expect only good things to come from the rookies even without going through the ups and downs that it seems every new player goes through.

If this team is so Dependant on the young guys for it's success that would tell me that this team CURRENTLY isn't good enough and needs to develop the young guys. If you look at Boston, they have 3 guys who are giving you solid games almost every night, so instead of being Dependant on the young guys, the young guys are just the icing on the cake.

This year should have been a building upon what we have in Deng, Gordon, Hinrich and Wallace but it wasn't... those were suppose to be our solid guys giving us solid games nearly every night and then we were suppose to bring in the young guys to be the icing on the cake if they were doing good that night... that's why Skiles started Tyrus, because he figured the vets would do their jobs but they didn't and it destroyed our build upon last year's success and basically put us into a year of wasted opportunity, not good enough to really compete and wasting a year of development for the young players.

Aldridge, Roy and Gay all benefited from getting big minutes last year and are paying dividends this year more then they did last year while our young guys haven't gotten the development time they needed.

I just see a waisted season... 30+ games so far and we've done almost nothing to prepare some key young players for the future to help this franchise.

[Cliff Levingston]

I just see a waisted season... 30+ games so far and we've done almost nothing to prepare some key young players for the future to help this franchise.

Yep. Imagine if we had only one of Nocioni or Smith like Cliff Levingston proposed in the offseason. This issue with finding minutes for the young guys would be almost non-existent; you'd have an extra 25-30 minutes per game to that could (pretty much) only be given to Tyrus, Noah or Gray.

[AirP.]

-= original quote snipped =-


Yep. Imagine if we had only one of Nocioni or Smith like Cliff Levingston proposed in the offseason. This issue with finding minutes for the young guys would be almost non-existent; you'd have an extra 25-30 minutes per game to that could (pretty much) only be given to Tyrus, Noah or Gray.

You know, I wouldn't be totally disgusted with this current season if Paxson signed those guys to make a trade with. I hope Nocioni is moved, that contract says starter to me and I don't want him starting, he disrupts the offense, sometimes it's great because our team isn't scoring and sometimes it sucks because he puts up bad shots.

I'm good with Smith here, but you know, the way he's playing, he's going to have some GREAT value to a team that is looking to make some noise in the playoffs. Just imagine if the Lakers had Smith playing PF for them, he would definitely help that team. He'd be a great PF next to D.Howard with his jumpers to go with Howard's power game. Houston could use him at PF... Smith to me is going to be in high demand if he isn't already. Good contract, good productivity, pretty consistent. Of all the players the Bulls have, Smith may be the one most in demand.

[House]

Trade Noc For a decent 2 guard.

Trade Wallace for a bag of chips.

[JCrossover#1]

The problem arent guys like Smith or Nocioni, if not the guys that are supposed to lead this team to a championship (Gordon, Deng, Hinrich). So I wonder why all the proposed trades are designed to get rid of Wallace, Nocioni, Smith, etc and not to build a team around some players that would actually give us hope of winning something.
I think before the deadline we should move at least one of them, being Gordon IMO the way to go.

[bre9]

I don't like K.C.'s articles we lose one game and time is running out. Yeah right it's plenty of time in this weak eastern confrence. Were one nice long winning streak from being right in the mist of the playoffs. It's plenty of time.

[Cliff Levingston]

I don't like K.C.'s articles we lose one game and time is running out. Yeah right it's plenty of time in this weak eastern confrence. Were one nice long winning streak from being right in the mist of the playoffs. It's plenty of time.

We're 4 and 3 under Boylan, and that's against mostly bad teams, relying heavily upon Wallace, Smith, Nocioni, Deng, Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon. It's not a reaction to "losing one game."

[AirP.]

The problem arent guys like Smith or Nocioni, if not the guys that are supposed to lead this team to a championship (Gordon, Deng, Hinrich). So I wonder why all the proposed trades are designed to get rid of Wallace, Nocioni, Smith, etc and not to build a team around some players that would actually give us hope of winning something.
I think before the deadline we should move at least one of them, being Gordon IMO the way to go.

Well, for Nocioni it's because he's having to play PF to get minutes and even though he can do that, it's not the brightest idea to have 2 undersized big men on the court at the same time for as long as Nocioni and Wallace are. So the decision comes down to Deng or Nocioni at SF...

Smith, he's signed for this year and next, so he's not in the long term plans especially with his age so if this team isn't going to challenge for a championship, why take up valuable game time from the younger guys?

I myself want to see bigger changes, I'd love to see Wallace moved for nearly anything but the best possible way to move him is to make his oversized contract with other talented and possibly underpaid players. Ben Gordon would be worth more to a run and gun team then a stand around half court team like the Bulls. I really like Joe Smith but he may have the best chance of bringing in someone who can help us in the future(in a package of course).

Right now what I like for the future with the Bulls...

PG - Nothing / Duhon
SG - Nothing / Gordon / Thabo
SF - Deng / Thabo / Tyrus-in a big lineup
PF - Tyrus / Noah
C - Noah / Gray

I'd like to see a more playmaking PG and a better all around SG, doesn't have to be a great SG either, just a solid guy. We're needing to find a better starting backcourt.

[Cliff Levingston]

You know, I wouldn't be totally disgusted with this current season if Paxson signed those guys to make a trade with. I hope Nocioni is moved, that contract says starter to me and I don't want him starting, he disrupts the offense, sometimes it's great because our team isn't scoring and sometimes it sucks because he puts up bad shots.

Pretty much, exactly. When Cliff Levingston heard about the contract he signed, he nearly flipped out. It's not horrible for a player of Nocioni's caliber (though it is overpaying) but why are we spending that much on a guy who we intend to have on the bench? ICLO; Pax thinks far too highly of Nocioni and it could end up being a bad player eval that costs us.

I'm good with Smith here, but you know, the way he's playing, he's going to have some GREAT value to a team that is looking to make some noise in the playoffs. Just imagine if the Lakers had Smith playing PF for them, he would definitely help that team. He'd be a great PF next to D.Howard with his jumpers to go with Howard's power game. Houston could use him at PF... Smith to me is going to be in high demand if he isn't already. Good contract, good productivity, pretty consistent. Of all the players the Bulls have, Smith may be the one most in demand.

How can you not be thrilled to have Smith at this price for the way he's playing. He's showing that he's a guy you don't want to trade; you want to keep him around as the vet big man of the team and use him to help make things easier on the kids.

Besides, his value will only have minimally increased by his recent play. Teams can see that he's an average player in general, he's just got a hot streak going on right now. We won't get as much as we hope for him, so might as well keep him since he's worth more than his contract right now.

[kyrv]

"If things don't start to turn around to where we play better and win more games, of course there's going to come a time where I'm going to have to see our young guys on the floor for significant minutes.

So losing is the only hope we have of Tyrus,Noah and Thabo playing extended minutes?

I guess I'll be rooting for more losses then.

Seriously.

Wish I had known, I would have enjoyed that Knicks game. Immensely.

[AirP.]

-= original quote snipped =-
How can you not be thrilled to have Smith at this price for the way he's playing. He's showing that he's a guy you don't want to trade; you want to keep him around as the vet big man of the team and use him to help make things easier on the kids.

Besides, his value will only have minimally increased by his recent play. Teams can see that he's an average player in general, he's just got a hot streak going on right now. We won't get as much as we hope for him, so might as well keep him since he's worth more than his contract right now.

I really like having Smith here especially for what he's getting paid, but if we go to a youth movement... if a team is willing to give up value for him, why not? You can't tell me the Lakers wouldn't want Smith playing PF with them which would allow Odom to go back to SF. Let's look at the teams that J.Smith could help out in the post season....

Lakers - Odom moves to SF, strengthens front line.
Dallas - he would give them a more diverse offense
Houston - a great PF to play alongside with Yao
Denver - Could help if they don't believe in Nene
Orlando - like Houston, his midrange game goes good with Duncan's low post game.
New Jersey - If they keep Kidd they're focusing more on now then later and he's a definite upgrade at PF then their young guys.

If we can get a good young backcourt player out of him, sure, we move him but we don't give him away by any means.

I wouldn't mind trying to pry away a Marcus Williams from New Jersey. We need someone creative at the PG position in the worst way if we want to get the most we can out of Tyrus, Deng and Noah.

[Ralphb07]

paxson gonna have to make a trade, what was the point to sign Noc at that money, I thought he was doing that as a trading chip for this season. Deng demands the minutes at SF and Noc is too small for the PF spot.

We have so much of equal talent on this team, that a 3 for 1 deal is perfect. That's why I say go for a Tmac type player. Wallace is staying guys, I do hate to break that too you. Wallace really isnt the problem its noc. If Noc wasnt here. Smith and Wallace will each get 30 and that leaves 18 for Tyrus and Noah for now. 18-20 mins is all Tyrus and Noah should get right now, enough mins to have there bumbs and bruises and next year you up it to 25-26 unless one really breaks out.

[dougthonus]

Nocioni and Hinrich will likely be shopped heavily in the off season.

It's not so easy to trade them now because they are BYC players. Trading for high salary players now is very hard as well because we dont' have any big contracts outside of Wallace, but this summer, Hinrich and Noc will clear that up.

If you're hoping for trades prepare for some serious disappointment around this trading deadline, but next summer and next deadline I think things will be far more realistic.

[kyrv]

Nocioni and Hinrich will likely be shopped heavily in the off season.

It's not so easy to trade them now because they are BYC players. Trading for high salary players now is very hard as well because we dont' have any big contracts outside of Wallace, but this summer, Hinrich and Noc will clear that up.

If you're hoping for trades prepare for some serious disappointment around this trading deadline, but next summer and next deadline I think things will be far more realistic.

Unless Pax gets a deal that is a real steal, I think it does make a lot of sense to wait anyway, to get a look and try to guess how the youngin's project, and go from there.

Not sure, other than maybe Wallace going, I'm not sure I mind no trades this mid-season. I also think Smith will help playing with the youngsters much more than Ben would.

[Mr. Tibbs]

personally i'd rather we play the rooks but we shouldn't cut wallace and noc' minutes entirely (though i could live with wallace getting cut lol). 3 games out of the 8th seed in the east is too close to say the seasons over and give up. The way i see it..making a run to make it to the playoffs should give our players more value in a trade during the offseason anyway..while giving our players another year of valuable playoff experience. then finally..who knows what can happen in the playoffs, the only team i KNOW we couldn't beat is boston. Every other team i think we'd give a good fighting shot.

[dougthonus]

I don't think playing our young big men heavily is equivalent to giving up.

I don't know why everyone comes to this conclusion.

Our old front court has not gotten the job done. Our young front court has been more productive statistically given the opportunity. I'd say flop their roles. Let Noah, Tyrus, and Gray basically get guaranteed 20+ minutes and play Wallace, Smith, and Nocioni depending on how productive they are that game.