Paxson wants 30+ minutes a night for young guys?

bre9 · Post #81 » by **bre9** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:53 pm

Cliff Levingston wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Difference between Tyrus/Noah/Thabo and Gordon/Duhon/Hinrich: Tyrus/Noah/Thabo haven't got a chance to play significant minutes yet.

I doubt those guys will produce better than Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, and Duhon. I guess will have to wait and see hope they prove me wrong.

kyrv · Post #82 » by **kyrv** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:54 pm

bre9 wrote:From what I seen out of Thabo the guy is awful on offense his shot is so flat. Tyrus can't make jumpers he also makes obvious mistakes when he's in the game he's to clumsy he tries to do too much when he's in their. Noah same as Tyrus can't make a jumpshot. Aaron Gray can do some things on the offense end but is slow and is awful on defense he couldn't guard Eddy Curry the other night. JamesOn Curry is probably not even good he was 2nd rd pick another short 2 guard. Pax has messed up the last few drafts. His best draft picks were Hinrich, Nocioni, Deng, Duhon, and Gordon. Every since them he has not been successful at the draft and part of it's Skiles fault because he persuade Pax to pick defense guys when we really needed Offense players and well rounded players.

I agree the Bulls roster is not very well balanced by position and height, or offense/defense balance.

Tyrus did well last year. I won't disagree with anything you wrote, but I personally prefer Pax see them play more (and perhaps improve) before writing them off or labelling them.

Which ones to keep? Are they starters or backups or 12-15 guys? I would keep in mind that rookies normally do get better with more playing time.

So:

1) how do they play

2) do they get better over time with consistent playing time

3) are they being coached properly

4) do the good things outweight the bad things (i.e. Gray and his 'foot speed')

I guess I'm feeling like you are giving a complete analysis and again I think Paxson has a better chance of making the right decision(s) after regular playing time, not limited, jerked around, playing time.

bre9 · Post #83 » by **bre9** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:55 pm

jump wrote:
Every since them he has not been successful at the draft and part of it's Skiles fault because he persuade Pax to pick defense guys when we really needed Offense players and well rounded players.

Who has he passed up that you would rather he'd have drafted?

Brandon Roy
Lamarcus Aldridge
Ronnie Brewer

He passed these guys up and now their really well.

Cliff Levingston · Post #84 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:55 pm

bre9 wrote:I doubt those guys will produce better than Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, and Duhon. I guess will have to wait and see hope they prove me wrong.

Why is Nocioni involved when talking about drafts? Nocioni was an undrafted free agent.

bre9 · Post #85 » by **bre9** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:57 pm

Cliff Levingston wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Why is Nocioni involved when talking about drafts? Nocioni was an undrafted free agent.

Noc was apart of the movement he was a rookie.

kyrv · Post #86 » by **kyrv** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:59 pm

bre9 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I doubt those guys will produce better than Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, and Duhon. I guess will have to wait and see hope they prove me wrong.

Would you prefer your GM act on 'doubt' or act on knowing?

Brewer is falling a bit out of favor in Utah I read (no idea if it's true, just a mentiont that I read that).

bre9 · Post #87 » by **bre9** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:04 pm

kyrv wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Would you prefer your GM act on 'doubt' or act on knowing?

Brewer is falling a bit out of favor in Utah I read (no idea if it's true, just a mentiont that I read that).

I'm all for giving the young guy's minutes but the little minutes they get now and play I seen from them has been discouraging. I would rather have Brewers 12.5 ppg on a 50 percent shooting instead of Thabo 2.5 ppg on 30 percent shooting. Time will tell how good Pax picks are.

molepharmer · Post #88 » by **molepharmer** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:09 pm

bre9 wrote:I doubt those guys will produce better than Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, and Duhon. I guess will have to wait and see hope they prove me wrong.

The new youth couldn't do a lot worse than 13-20. I expect they'll at least bring some passion back to playing NBA basketball; rather than resting on their laurels and waiting for their paychecks.

Wingy · Post #89 » by **Wingy** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:13 pm

bre9 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I'm all for giving the young guy's minutes but the little minutes they get now and play I seen from them has been discouraging. I would rather have Brewers 12.5 ppg on a 50 percent shooting instead of Thabo 2.5 ppg on 30 percent shooting. Time will tell how good Pax picks are.

You're right with the last line. I wanted Brewer too...but I'm not gonna say he's a better pick than Thabo at this point.

Let me tell ya somethin'...Wallace/Joe Smith ain't no Boozer and Kirk ain't no Deron Williams. Plus Utah, a pretty damn good team with solid players at all positions...except shooting guard where Brewer happens to play. Thabo has to compete with Gordon/Deng/Noc for minutes. Brewer has gotten to prove himself because there's no one standing in his way.

bre9 · Post #90 » by **bre9** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:14 pm

molepharmer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

The new youth couldn't do a lot worse than 13-20. I expect they'll at least bring some passion back to playing NBA basketball; rather than resting on their laurels and waiting for their paychecks.

Well I guess your looking foward to blowouts. Yeah i can see the passion in Thabo and Tyrus jumpshots they have so much passion when the ball leaves their hand in that nice form. How about the passion in Noah's freethrow shooting form what a pretty form. How about the passion in Gray defense and hustle. Time will tell.

bre9 · Post #91 » by **bre9** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:21 pm

Wingy wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You're right with the last line. I wanted Brewer too...but I'm not gonna say he's a better pick than Thabo at this point.

Let me tell ya somethin'...Wallace/Joe Smith ain't no Boozer and Kirk ain't no Deron Williams. Plus Utah, a pretty damn good team with solid players at all positions...except shooting guard where Brewer happens to play. Thabo has to compete with Gordon/Deng/Noc for minutes. Brewer has gotten to prove himself because there's no one standing in his way.

Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng with to great college programs and Gordon won a championship and was also the mvp. Thabo played in europe which is not a too good league. Pax has said he brought Thabo over for his defense and they know he has to develop in offense game they are hoping he becomes a slashing guard. If Thabo can't prove he can score in the nba he's going have trouble.

kyrv · Post #92 » by **kyrv** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:26 pm

bre9 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I'm all for giving the young guy's minutes but the little minutes they get now and play I seen from them has been discouraging. I would rather have Brewers 12.5 ppg on a 50 percent shooting instead of Thabo 2.5 ppg on 30 percent shooting. Time will tell how good Pax picks are.

Then we agree. The subject is playing the youngsters, not "what should have Pax have done".

It seems we agree but you want to talk about Paxson and what he has done, rain check on that.

Neusch23 · Post #93 » by **Neusch23** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:28 pm

coldfish wrote:I think the people wanting the Bulls to tank and / or expecting losses in regards to playing the young people will be sorely disappointed when they get to see the results of 30mpg of Noah.

Again, I have to put a spin on this, because in theory I agree, but at the heart of this I strongly disagree.

If we play Tyrus and Noah 30 min a night, and play our current system, we will lose, lose, lose. I really don't know if we would be good enough to over come their mistakes to win 25 games this year.

HOWEVER.

If we actually ran a system that would high light their strengths, and play a game that doesn't put us in position to have to shoot very well to create space and spread the floor, then we can win more games.

BUT.

We would win more games playing this system with Joe Smith and Ben Wallace.

I just strongly believe we have the wrong types, sizes, and ablity of players to run the system that we do.

So, in a way I agree, but in another way I couldn't disagree more.

However, I believe this would be good. I think there is a reason that the Heat are losing. This is a key draft. If they can score a good player, then they can expect to keep Wade around longer. If they squeek into the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed, then it is just another year of not being able to add talent around Wade.

bre9 · Post #94 » by **bre9** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:28 pm

kyrv wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Then we agree. The subject is playing the youngsters, not "what should have Pax have done".

It seems we agree but you want to talk about Paxson and what he has done, rain check on that.

We agree but bringing up Paxson is relevant in this topic.

TB#1 · Post #95 » by **TB#1** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Sham wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Seeing that picture made me wonder if the very first Scott Skiles team meeting might have gone something like this...

Scott Skiles: Let me have your attention for a moment. 'Cause you're talkin' about what...you're talkin' 'bout...blowing that game with a missed shot, some son of a bitch don't want to call a foul, somebody don't want to give you playing time, some broad you're trying to screw, so forth, let's talk about something important. Are they all here?

Pete Myers: All but one.

Skiles: Well, I'm going anyway. Let's talk about something important. (sees Crawford pouring Gatorade). Put that Gatorade down. Gatorade's for game closer's only. You think I'm **** with you? I am not **** with you. I'm here from downtown. I'm here from Reinsdorf